Crusty Rusty Leaky Squeaky 67 Step

[Vic1947]

Installed the bags temporarily in the rear and set it back on the ground. Front is shaping up to be a tester. Right off hand, it looks like the 7" OD bags are too big for the space. AZ Performance sells that size with their kits, but it really looks like 6" would be a better choice. It also appears that the bolt-on, stock style sway bar is going to have to be converted to a link setup. I think I can cut the ends, drill and tap them and mount heim joint links to a relocated boss on the A-arm. Removing the pad where the sway bar mounts would free up some space and make it more feasible to run the 7" bags. There's still the problem with the upper mounting plates though. Right now it looks like they locate the bag too far to the rear for my custom A-arms and will rub. I need to call Travis tomorrow and see what he recommends. Nobody said it would be easy.

[Vic1947]

I've run into a problem with the lower control arms. The PO had installed a set of tubular arms with dropped pockets to lower the front end statically. They allow about a 2" drop with a stock height spring. When I talked to Travis at AZ Performance this morning, he said that style control arm doesn't work well with air bags. He also strongly urged me to find a way to use the 7" bags as anything smaller would compromise ride quality and limit the range of the front suspension.



I could tell before I even removed the first control arm that it would take a lot of re-engineering to fit the bags in the existing arms. Upon removal, I could see that the existing spring retainer isn't centered. I'm guessing the a-arm was built to add additional caster. That might be one possible reason the spring isn't more centrally located. Regardless, in order to make this work, I'd have to shift the lower and upper bag mounts about 1.25" forward of the factory spring centerline.

Travis said the bags and mounts are really meant for a stock lower control arm. So, the hunt is on.

[lolife99]

Thanks for the great explanation.
I had no idea the trans in your truck would be pointing up.
WIth the frame level,... I always thought the trans would be pointing down a couple of degrees.
Plus converting to drop springs or bags in your case,... usually pivots the rearend's pinion angle into negative numbers, (due to the new angle of the trailing arms) depending on how much you drop the rearend.

[Vic1947]

Originally Posted by lolife99

Thanks for the great explanation.
I had no idea the trans in your truck would be pointing up.
WIth the frame level,... I always thought the trans would be pointing down a couple of degrees.
Plus converting to drop springs or bags in your case,... usually pivots the rearend's pinion angle into negative numbers, (due to the new angle of the trailing arms) depending on how much you drop the rearend.

Ahhh, the operative phrase here is "with the frame level". Instead of saying "for whatever reason", I should have pointed out that the frame wasn't level when doing my measurements. I had the rear up on jack stands, the springs out and used a floor jack on the center crossmember. At this point, I set the distance between the frame and the rear axle tubes to the dimension I thought would be ideal for the final ride height. This height, while not as low as it can go, is a compromise that allows me to keep my existing rear shock setup and not have to install C-notches. This distance sets the geometry between the pinion gear and the trans output shaft. Relatively speaking, the trans angle doesn't matter; only its relation to the pinion. Once the imaginary centerlines are parallel, you're in business.

My goal is somewhat different than the average builder bagging a truck. I've only done static drops in the past and the lower they rode, the less I ended up liking them. I wanted bags not so much to lower the truck (although I do like them lower than stock) but rather to compensate for trailer tongue weight. The more I looked into it, the less it seemed that I could get away with two rear bags and Schrader valves for load leveling. Next thing you know, I've got four corner bags with position sensors and a computer that controls each corner independently. Gonna make hauling gravel a cinch, though.

[jlsanborn]

Originally Posted by Vic1947

Gonna make hauling gravel a cinch, though.

Dump bed????

Although my thread is stone cold, I have been dinking around with ho-made cross member and engine stands. Did a bunch of searching to find out if there is a standard or preferred centerline angle. A 3 degree decline front to back came up in my searches more than once so that's what I shot for.

Truck is looking great Vic. Can't wait to see some sano pneumatic plumbing!

[Vic1947]

Originally Posted by jlsanborn

Dump bed????

Although my thread is stone cold, I have been dinking around with ho-made cross member and engine stands. Did a bunch of searching to find out if there is a standard or preferred centerline angle. A 3 degree decline front to back came up in my searches more than once so that's what I shot for.

Truck is looking great Vic. Can't wait to see some sano pneumatic plumbing!

Thanks, John. I'd agree with your findings. Three degrees of trans down angle matched with 2-3 degrees up pinion angle should give smooth results.

I've been mulling over a design for mounting the top of the bags to the frame that will keep me from having to drill into it. Should make it much easier to plumb the lines also. Stay tuned.

[Vic1947]

So, after bolting the lowering blocks in place and mocking up the ride height, it dawned on me that I'd be pushing the upper limit of the SS-7 bags (12") if I needed a bit more ground clearance. Since this isn't your run of the mill, "in the weeds" chassis mod, I'd have been okay without the blocks. However, inspiration smiled upon me as I realized I could now build spacers for the top of the bags that would not only eliminate the need to drill holes in the frame, but also give me a much more convenient route for the air lines.

I started by marking circles on some flat stock and hacking it out with my plasma cutter. Then I used the bandsaw to trim the edges to the line. I drilled a center hole in each of the four plates and then stacked them together with a 3/8" bolt I'd center drilled. Set it up in the lathe with the live center snugged up tight to keep the turning tool from yanking the whole mess out of the chuck. Several passes later, I had some nice round plates that would form the tops and bottoms of my spacer assembly. Two plates got the hole pattern for the top of the bag - including the opening for the 90* air connector. The other two only needed the 1/2" hole to match the location of the original in the frame used by the coil spring retainer.

Next step was to cut some angle to form the vertical supports. Milled them all to 2" lengths. I figure three supports arranged 120 degrees apart should be more than adequate for the job. Welded them out, cleaned up everything in the blast cabinet and trial assembled them on the bags. Looks like it will work okay. I've ordered some stainless reducer bushings for the air fittings and will post up a photo of the final assembly.

[jlsanborn]

Very cool! Stainless? Weld bead looks a goldish color?

[Vic1947]

Originally Posted by jlsanborn

Very cool! Stainless? Weld bead looks a goldish color?

Hey, John. Filler rod is silicon bronze. I like to use it when I need to minimize the distortion or draw. It's not quite as sturdy as a steel alloy, but there should be very little tension or shear on the parts, mainly compression.

[Low Elco]

Slick mount job!

[Vic1947]

Originally Posted by SamsAutoParts73-87

That is some excellent looking fab work!
-Sam

Originally Posted by Low Elco

Slick mount job!

Thanks, guys. Engine swap is looking good, Chip! I don't have a Hurco, but if you need something whittled out quickly when the crazy train starts barreling down the tracks, just let me know.

[mcbassin]

Excellent work as always Vic. I must have read wrong earlier when I thought you were making bushings for your U-bolts.
I just saw the picture and it looked like a U-bolt hole.

[Vic1947]

Originally Posted by mcbassin

Excellent work as always Vic. I must have read wrong earlier when I thought you were making bushings for your U-bolts.
I just saw the picture and it looked like a U-bolt hole.

Thanks, Mike, I figured that might be what got you off track. All three holes do look the same in the stock trailing arms.

[Low Elco]

Thanks, I appreciate it. I couldn't begin to pay you back as it is!

[Low Elco]

You already know this, I'm sure, but everything I've seen saysgo big as you can on the bags. Doesn't someone sell a "cup kit" that you could use to clearance/reinforce the arms? 'Course, a chunk of 8" pipe and one of your plates, plasma plasma bang bang, you're there.

[Low Elco]

Well, hell. I was at the yards today, coulda got ya a buncha them. Anything I can do, lemme know.

[Elliot949]

Coming tomorrow Vic... Can't wait to see this truck... do you need anything from Classic Parts?.. I will be there in the morning...

[Vic1947]

Originally Posted by Elliot949

Coming tomorrow Vic... Can't wait to see this truck... do you need anything from Classic Parts?.. I will be there in the morning...

Way cool, looking forward to it, Dan. I'm good right now on Classic's stuff. However, I'm sure I'll think of something the moment you get here.

[knomadd]

You could go with Porterbuilt arms! I'm running their lowers with a 1" forward offset. The set moves the wheels forward in the wheel opening by an inch if you do both upper and lower, but about 1/2"-3/4" with just the lowers. Stock arms would be cheaper though.

I'd send you mine, but one is beat up. If you feel like straightening one of the bushing mounts, and replacing the ball joints/bushings, I'll let you have them for the cost of shipping. Let me know if you're interested and I'll take some pics.

[Vic1947]

Originally Posted by knomadd

You could go with Porterbuilt arms! I'm running their lowers with a 1" forward offset. The set moves the wheels forward in the wheel opening by an inch if you do both upper and lower, but about 1/2"-3/4" with just the lowers. Stock arms would be cheaper though.

I'd send you mine, but one is beat up. If you feel like straightening one of the bushing mounts, and replacing the ball joints/bushings, I'll let you have them for the cost of shipping. Let me know if you're interested and I'll take some pics.

Thanks for the offer, Duane. There's a specialty yard over in Lenexa that keeps tons of the stuff. Just need to get off my butt and go over there. As heavy as the arms are, they can be expensive to ship. Plus, it's useful to wait just a bit sometimes. Never know when someone local will pop up and holler, "I got some that were just rebuilt!" The sad part is I let a completely rebuilt, powder coated set of uppers and lowers go for cheap at a swap meet about a year ago. Being a neat freak, anti-hoarder has it's drawbacks.

[snipescastle2]

Vic,
I have a set of lower control arms for a drum brake front end, sont know if these will help, but I'm willing to give them to you if you want them......

I only have the lowers, I can shot blast these and powder coat them black for you as well.......
let me know.
Ben

[Vic1947]

Originally Posted by snipescastle2

Vic,
I have a set of lower control arms for a drum brake front end, sont know if these will help, but I'm willing to give them to you if you want them......

I only have the lowers, I can shot blast these and powder coat them black for you as well.......
let me know.
Ben

Thanks, Ben, the lower arms are all I need. I started modifying the DJM arms that came off of it yesterday to see if I can make them work. I think it may be possible. However, I'll PM you if these don't work out and arrange to get yours. Should know something today. Thanks again!

[snipescastle2]

No Worries Vic!
have a great Day!
Ben

[Vic1947]

We had company from Houston, TX and Jeff City, MO at the house yesterday, so all I did was show off stuff. But today, I finished up a couple of things I've been doing in background, then got busy and put access holes in the lower control arms and tack welded the bottom spacer in. Attached the bag to the spacer and reinstalled the control arm. With the suspension set at the approximate ride height, the bag should extend to approximately 5.5" - 6" when inflated. The advertised range is 2.7" to 12" but the tech at Slam said they work best in the 5" to 8" range. It's really hard to know what I'll end up with, but I think I have enough adjustment to arrive at a decent height and stance.

I was pleased with the clearance between the bag and the lower control arms. The bag sits forward of where it probably would have if I'd used the stock or purpose built arms from Porterbuilt. I don't think it will make a big difference in the leverage the bag has on the crossmember, however, I'm open to suggestions or honest critique. This is my first airbag rodeo, so I got nuthin' to go on.

[Elliot949]

I will keep you posted when we are actually at CPA.