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#1151 |
67-72 parts collector,…
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Location: Mid-MO
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Re: Crusty Rusty Leaky Squeaky 67 Step
Just a question.
With your lowering blocks installed the way you show them,... wouldn't that make the rearend's pinion point toward the ground more, than without the angle cut on them? I would think you would want to turn the blocks around,... to get the pinion pointed up. (trans points down x-degrees,... pinion points up a matching x-degrees) I assume you are using a 1-piece drive line.
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Keith Convert to disc brakes. http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=444823 |
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#1152 | |
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Location: Kansas City, MO
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Re: Crusty Rusty Leaky Squeaky 67 Step
Quote:
As for the pinion angle, the main thing you want to achieve is to have the centerline of the pinion gear and the centerline of the transmission output shaft parallel... preferably under normal load. Under hard acceleration, the pinion tries to climb. This is more noticeable in a vehicle with rubber mounts, short trailing arms, flexible links (like leaf springs) and etc. Even with racing four link setups using heim joints, there will be some deflection. So if the imaginary centerlines intersect at rest, you're probably in for some driveline shimmy. As for the proper amount - several degrees is good if the physical configuration permits. Personally, I think pinion angle gets blamed for a lot of problems that it doesn't cause. As long as it's not waaay out of whack, it's pretty forgiving.
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Victor 57 Chevy Wagon - California Dreamin'"Mecum'd" 9/2022 Dallas, TX Crusty Rusty Leaky Squeaky 67 Consigned 4/2019 Dresden, Germany Maybelline - my '57 Ford 2dr Sedan "Mecum'd" 3/2016 Location unknown Silver Streaker "Mecum'd" 4/2013 Somewhere in Texas |
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#1153 | ||
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Re: Crusty Rusty Leaky Squeaky 67 Step
Quote:
Quote:
Yes
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Victor 57 Chevy Wagon - California Dreamin'"Mecum'd" 9/2022 Dallas, TX Crusty Rusty Leaky Squeaky 67 Consigned 4/2019 Dresden, Germany Maybelline - my '57 Ford 2dr Sedan "Mecum'd" 3/2016 Location unknown Silver Streaker "Mecum'd" 4/2013 Somewhere in Texas |
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#1154 |
67-72 parts collector,…
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Location: Mid-MO
Posts: 22,698
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Re: Crusty Rusty Leaky Squeaky 67 Step
Thanks for the great explanation.
I had no idea the trans in your truck would be pointing up. WIth the frame level,... I always thought the trans would be pointing down a couple of degrees. Plus converting to drop springs or bags in your case,... usually pivots the rearend's pinion angle into negative numbers, (due to the new angle of the trailing arms) depending on how much you drop the rearend.
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Keith Convert to disc brakes. http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=444823 |
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#1155 | |
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Re: Crusty Rusty Leaky Squeaky 67 Step
Quote:
My goal is somewhat different than the average builder bagging a truck. I've only done static drops in the past and the lower they rode, the less I ended up liking them. I wanted bags not so much to lower the truck (although I do like them lower than stock) but rather to compensate for trailer tongue weight. The more I looked into it, the less it seemed that I could get away with two rear bags and Schrader valves for load leveling. Next thing you know, I've got four corner bags with position sensors and a computer that controls each corner independently. Gonna make hauling gravel a cinch, though.
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Victor 57 Chevy Wagon - California Dreamin'"Mecum'd" 9/2022 Dallas, TX Crusty Rusty Leaky Squeaky 67 Consigned 4/2019 Dresden, Germany Maybelline - my '57 Ford 2dr Sedan "Mecum'd" 3/2016 Location unknown Silver Streaker "Mecum'd" 4/2013 Somewhere in Texas |
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#1156 |
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Spokane, WA
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Re: Crusty Rusty Leaky Squeaky 67 Step
![]() Although my thread is stone cold, I have been dinking around with ho-made cross member and engine stands. Did a bunch of searching to find out if there is a standard or preferred centerline angle. A 3 degree decline front to back came up in my searches more than once so that's what I shot for. Truck is looking great Vic. Can't wait to see some sano pneumatic plumbing!
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'77 K30 3+3 - "The Crummy" http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=640134 '67 C10 L/SWB - Soon to be daily driver! http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=471776 ![]() |
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#1157 | |
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Re: Crusty Rusty Leaky Squeaky 67 Step
Quote:
I've been mulling over a design for mounting the top of the bags to the frame that will keep me from having to drill into it. Should make it much easier to plumb the lines also. Stay tuned.
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Victor 57 Chevy Wagon - California Dreamin'"Mecum'd" 9/2022 Dallas, TX Crusty Rusty Leaky Squeaky 67 Consigned 4/2019 Dresden, Germany Maybelline - my '57 Ford 2dr Sedan "Mecum'd" 3/2016 Location unknown Silver Streaker "Mecum'd" 4/2013 Somewhere in Texas |
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#1158 |
Senior Member
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Location: Kansas City, MO
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Re: Crusty Rusty Leaky Squeaky 67 Step
So, after bolting the lowering blocks in place and mocking up the ride height, it dawned on me that I'd be pushing the upper limit of the SS-7 bags (12") if I needed a bit more ground clearance. Since this isn't your run of the mill, "in the weeds" chassis mod, I'd have been okay without the blocks. However, inspiration smiled upon me as I realized I could now build spacers for the top of the bags that would not only eliminate the need to drill holes in the frame, but also give me a much more convenient route for the air lines.
I started by marking circles on some flat stock and hacking it out with my plasma cutter. Then I used the bandsaw to trim the edges to the line. I drilled a center hole in each of the four plates and then stacked them together with a 3/8" bolt I'd center drilled. Set it up in the lathe with the live center snugged up tight to keep the turning tool from yanking the whole mess out of the chuck. Several passes later, I had some nice round plates that would form the tops and bottoms of my spacer assembly. Two plates got the hole pattern for the top of the bag - including the opening for the 90* air connector. The other two only needed the 1/2" hole to match the location of the original in the frame used by the coil spring retainer. Next step was to cut some angle to form the vertical supports. Milled them all to 2" lengths. I figure three supports arranged 120 degrees apart should be more than adequate for the job. Welded them out, cleaned up everything in the blast cabinet and trial assembled them on the bags. Looks like it will work okay. I've ordered some stainless reducer bushings for the air fittings and will post up a photo of the final assembly.
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Victor 57 Chevy Wagon - California Dreamin'"Mecum'd" 9/2022 Dallas, TX Crusty Rusty Leaky Squeaky 67 Consigned 4/2019 Dresden, Germany Maybelline - my '57 Ford 2dr Sedan "Mecum'd" 3/2016 Location unknown Silver Streaker "Mecum'd" 4/2013 Somewhere in Texas |
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#1159 |
Senior Member
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Location: Kansas City, MO
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Re: Crusty Rusty Leaky Squeaky 67 Step
Here's a couple of photos of a spacer on one of the bags...
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Victor 57 Chevy Wagon - California Dreamin'"Mecum'd" 9/2022 Dallas, TX Crusty Rusty Leaky Squeaky 67 Consigned 4/2019 Dresden, Germany Maybelline - my '57 Ford 2dr Sedan "Mecum'd" 3/2016 Location unknown Silver Streaker "Mecum'd" 4/2013 Somewhere in Texas |
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#1160 |
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Location: Rome PA
Posts: 340
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Re: Crusty Rusty Leaky Squeaky 67 Step
That is some excellent looking fab work!
-Sam
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1987 Chevy R30 CC 454/4spd Work Truck 1979 Chevy K10 SWB 350/4spd/NP205, 1979 Chevy C10 LWB 350/TH350 Project 1981 Chevy K30 350/Th400/NP205 1986 Chevy K30 CUCV 6.2L/TH400/NP208 |
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#1161 |
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 2,367
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Re: Crusty Rusty Leaky Squeaky 67 Step
Very cool! Stainless? Weld bead looks a goldish color?
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'77 K30 3+3 - "The Crummy" http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=640134 '67 C10 L/SWB - Soon to be daily driver! http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=471776 ![]() |
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#1162 |
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Indep, MO
Posts: 5,893
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Re: Crusty Rusty Leaky Squeaky 67 Step
Slick mount job!
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Boppa's Old Yeller Truck Build, Old Yeller's New Heart! Project Buzz Bomb Flyin' Low! |
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#1163 |
Still Learning
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Central Oklahoma
Posts: 10,108
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Re: Crusty Rusty Leaky Squeaky 67 Step
Excellent work as always Vic. I must have read wrong earlier when I thought you were making bushings for your U-bolts.
![]() I just saw the picture and it looked like a U-bolt hole. |
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#1164 |
Senior Member
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Location: Kansas City, MO
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Re: Crusty Rusty Leaky Squeaky 67 Step
Hey, John. Filler rod is silicon bronze. I like to use it when I need to minimize the distortion or draw. It's not quite as sturdy as a steel alloy, but there should be very little tension or shear on the parts, mainly compression.
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Victor 57 Chevy Wagon - California Dreamin'"Mecum'd" 9/2022 Dallas, TX Crusty Rusty Leaky Squeaky 67 Consigned 4/2019 Dresden, Germany Maybelline - my '57 Ford 2dr Sedan "Mecum'd" 3/2016 Location unknown Silver Streaker "Mecum'd" 4/2013 Somewhere in Texas |
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#1165 |
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Re: Crusty Rusty Leaky Squeaky 67 Step
Thanks, Mike, I figured that might be what got you off track. All three holes do look the same in the stock trailing arms.
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Victor 57 Chevy Wagon - California Dreamin'"Mecum'd" 9/2022 Dallas, TX Crusty Rusty Leaky Squeaky 67 Consigned 4/2019 Dresden, Germany Maybelline - my '57 Ford 2dr Sedan "Mecum'd" 3/2016 Location unknown Silver Streaker "Mecum'd" 4/2013 Somewhere in Texas |
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#1166 |
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Location: Kansas City, MO
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Re: Crusty Rusty Leaky Squeaky 67 Step
Thanks, guys. Engine swap is looking good, Chip! I don't have a Hurco, but if you need something whittled out quickly when the crazy train starts barreling down the tracks, just let me know.
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Victor 57 Chevy Wagon - California Dreamin'"Mecum'd" 9/2022 Dallas, TX Crusty Rusty Leaky Squeaky 67 Consigned 4/2019 Dresden, Germany Maybelline - my '57 Ford 2dr Sedan "Mecum'd" 3/2016 Location unknown Silver Streaker "Mecum'd" 4/2013 Somewhere in Texas |
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#1167 |
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Indep, MO
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Re: Crusty Rusty Leaky Squeaky 67 Step
Thanks, I appreciate it. I couldn't begin to pay you back as it is!
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Boppa's Old Yeller Truck Build, Old Yeller's New Heart! Project Buzz Bomb Flyin' Low! |
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#1168 |
Senior Member
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Location: Kansas City, MO
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Re: Crusty Rusty Leaky Squeaky 67 Step
Installed the bags temporarily in the rear and set it back on the ground. Front is shaping up to be a tester. Right off hand, it looks like the 7" OD bags are too big for the space. AZ Performance sells that size with their kits, but it really looks like 6" would be a better choice. It also appears that the bolt-on, stock style sway bar is going to have to be converted to a link setup. I think I can cut the ends, drill and tap them and mount heim joint links to a relocated boss on the A-arm. Removing the pad where the sway bar mounts would free up some space and make it more feasible to run the 7" bags. There's still the problem with the upper mounting plates though. Right now it looks like they locate the bag too far to the rear for my custom A-arms and will rub. I need to call Travis tomorrow and see what he recommends. Nobody said it would be easy.
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Victor 57 Chevy Wagon - California Dreamin'"Mecum'd" 9/2022 Dallas, TX Crusty Rusty Leaky Squeaky 67 Consigned 4/2019 Dresden, Germany Maybelline - my '57 Ford 2dr Sedan "Mecum'd" 3/2016 Location unknown Silver Streaker "Mecum'd" 4/2013 Somewhere in Texas |
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#1169 |
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Indep, MO
Posts: 5,893
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Re: Crusty Rusty Leaky Squeaky 67 Step
You already know this, I'm sure, but everything I've seen saysgo big as you can on the bags. Doesn't someone sell a "cup kit" that you could use to clearance/reinforce the arms? 'Course, a chunk of 8" pipe and one of your plates, plasma plasma bang bang, you're there.
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Boppa's Old Yeller Truck Build, Old Yeller's New Heart! Project Buzz Bomb Flyin' Low! |
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#1170 |
Senior Member
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Re: Crusty Rusty Leaky Squeaky 67 Step
I've run into a problem with the lower control arms. The PO had installed a set of tubular arms with dropped pockets to lower the front end statically. They allow about a 2" drop with a stock height spring. When I talked to Travis at AZ Performance this morning, he said that style control arm doesn't work well with air bags. He also strongly urged me to find a way to use the 7" bags as anything smaller would compromise ride quality and limit the range of the front suspension.
![]() I could tell before I even removed the first control arm that it would take a lot of re-engineering to fit the bags in the existing arms. Upon removal, I could see that the existing spring retainer isn't centered. I'm guessing the a-arm was built to add additional caster. That might be one possible reason the spring isn't more centrally located. Regardless, in order to make this work, I'd have to shift the lower and upper bag mounts about 1.25" forward of the factory spring centerline. Travis said the bags and mounts are really meant for a stock lower control arm. So, the hunt is on.
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Victor 57 Chevy Wagon - California Dreamin'"Mecum'd" 9/2022 Dallas, TX Crusty Rusty Leaky Squeaky 67 Consigned 4/2019 Dresden, Germany Maybelline - my '57 Ford 2dr Sedan "Mecum'd" 3/2016 Location unknown Silver Streaker "Mecum'd" 4/2013 Somewhere in Texas |
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#1171 |
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Indep, MO
Posts: 5,893
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Re: Crusty Rusty Leaky Squeaky 67 Step
Well, hell. I was at the yards today, coulda got ya a buncha them. Anything I can do, lemme know.
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Boppa's Old Yeller Truck Build, Old Yeller's New Heart! Project Buzz Bomb Flyin' Low! |
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#1172 |
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Re: Crusty Rusty Leaky Squeaky 67 Step
Coming tomorrow Vic... Can't wait to see this truck... do you need anything from Classic Parts?.. I will be there in the morning...
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Dan Johnston... Owner of My Dad's- '67 Chevy C-20 Custom Camper Short Fleetside Pickup PAPA J And our newest addition a- '71 Chevy CST/10 Short Fleetside Pickup Haulin' SOLD Papa J's Build Thread: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=612847 Haulin's Build Thread: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=671130SOLD B Bears Build Thread:http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=744210 |
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#1173 |
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Rosenberg, Texas
Posts: 3,506
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Re: Crusty Rusty Leaky Squeaky 67 Step
You could go with Porterbuilt arms! I'm running their lowers with a 1" forward offset. The set moves the wheels forward in the wheel opening by an inch if you do both upper and lower, but about 1/2"-3/4" with just the lowers. Stock arms would be cheaper though.
I'd send you mine, but one is beat up. If you feel like straightening one of the bushing mounts, and replacing the ball joints/bushings, I'll let you have them for the cost of shipping. Let me know if you're interested and I'll take some pics.
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-Duane C/10 Club Texas member 1971 Chevy C10 "Brutus" SWB Fleetside 2016 6.0L (L96) 6L90E (driver/project) 1965 Pontiac GTO "Royal Goat" 400/TH400 w/AC (my baby) |
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#1174 | |
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Location: Kansas City, MO
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Re: Crusty Rusty Leaky Squeaky 67 Step
Quote:
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Victor 57 Chevy Wagon - California Dreamin'"Mecum'd" 9/2022 Dallas, TX Crusty Rusty Leaky Squeaky 67 Consigned 4/2019 Dresden, Germany Maybelline - my '57 Ford 2dr Sedan "Mecum'd" 3/2016 Location unknown Silver Streaker "Mecum'd" 4/2013 Somewhere in Texas |
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#1175 |
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Location: Winfield, Ks.
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Re: Crusty Rusty Leaky Squeaky 67 Step
I will keep you posted when we are actually at CPA.
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Dan Johnston... Owner of My Dad's- '67 Chevy C-20 Custom Camper Short Fleetside Pickup PAPA J And our newest addition a- '71 Chevy CST/10 Short Fleetside Pickup Haulin' SOLD Papa J's Build Thread: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=612847 Haulin's Build Thread: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=671130SOLD B Bears Build Thread:http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=744210 |
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