'66 Sunbeam Minx Project - F20C/6sp/4-link/Discs...

[mcbassin]

FF, you make that sheetmetal welding look like childs play. I have trying to make my patches look like that but I always end up with distortions. Not patient enough with my welding I guess.
Keep the updates coming. You are so close now. Can't wait to see you back on the hoe.

[68 TT]

Originally Posted by mcbassin

FF, you make that sheetmetal welding look like childs play. I have trying to make my patches look like that but I always end up with distortions. Not patient enough with my welding I guess.
Keep the updates coming. You are so close now. Can't wait to see you back on the hoe.

x2

Great work on this unique little car. Your weld finishing skills are top notch and make a world of difference in the finished product.

Keep up the fantastic work. It won't be long and this thing will be on the road.

[65Pickup]

Originally Posted by mcbassin

FF, you make that sheetmetal welding look like childs play. I have trying to make my patches look like that but I always end up with distortions. Not patient enough with my welding I guess.
Keep the updates coming. You are so close now. Can't wait to see you back on the hoe.

Completely agree, the patch magically disappears, beautiful work.

FF if you have time I'd appreciate hearing how you progress through a patch like this, like a small tutorial of your thought process, any personal tips and tools you use for your amazing success. Hope I'm not being a nuisance, Thanks Mike

[lyrikz]

Originally Posted by 65Pickup

Completely agree, the patch magically disappears, beautiful work.

FF if you have time I'd appreciate hearing how you progress through a patch like this, like a small tutorial of your thought process, any personal tips and tools you use for your amazing success. Hope I'm not being a nuisance, Thanks Mike

Same here..

[watahyahknow]

maibe you need to find an english forummember to find the propper paintcode and crosreference

[watahyahknow]

hot on the weldingpower and a verry short fast burst so the metal is stuck together before it realizes its been heated up
just tack them and wait until cool maibe hit it with a hammer to get it flat ish before doing the next tack

[67ChevyRedneck]

I swear you keep adding crap just so you don't have to finish...

[thor]

Originally Posted by 67ChevyRedneck

I swear you keep adding crap just so you don't have to finish...

[Frizzle Fry]

Originally Posted by 65Pickup

Completely agree, the patch magically disappears, beautiful work.

FF if you have time I'd appreciate hearing how you progress through a patch like this, like a small tutorial of your thought process, any personal tips and tools you use for your amazing success. Hope I'm not being a nuisance, Thanks Mike

Originally Posted by lyrikz

Same here..

I'll write something up...

Originally Posted by 67ChevyRedneck

I swear you keep adding crap just so you don't have to finish...

Originally Posted by thor

I was starting to suspect the same This is the LAST major fab item (strut tower brace)!!!

[Hoffa]

SUBSCRIBED.... How can I not after spending the last several days reading through this post to catch up with you all! It's like a man's soap opera......
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[76C10Stepside]

Just wanted to say that I've been lurking, enjoying your Sunbeam build thread for awhile now. FF, the work you're doing is truly inspiring. I'm really looking forward to seeing the finished product. It's going to be... ...wait for it... LEGENDARY! Sorry, couldn't resist.

[Mal]

Hi Frizzel fry. I found this thread on this forum a while ago but could never register to say hi. I finally managed it from a different computer. Love the work you are doing and can't wait to see how the finished car goes and handles.

I used to have a 1964 SV Hillman Mlnx with the 1600cc engine back in the
70's. The engine was bored out 30 thou and Zepher pistons (were flat tops for better comp). A cam that was called back then a high performance road cam, a 2 barrell webber on a griffis intake and extractors. Widened rims and
wider tyres. Here is a pic. I am afraid it is only a pic of and old photo so the quality is not the best. Colour is british racing green.



Here is a link to my latest project, a 1965 Sunbeam Tiger. The body was badly rusted and needed a lot of work but we are nearly there.
http://sunbeamtiger.co.uk/forum/view...?t=649&start=0

Anyway keep up the good work and all the best with the project. I would love to find my old Hillman again but I am afraid it is probably long gone.

Cheers Mal fron NZ

[Frizzle Fry]

Originally Posted by Hoffa

SUBSCRIBED.... How can I not after spending the last several days reading through this post to catch up with you all! It's like a man's soap opera......
Posted via Mobile Device

Stay tuned for the dramatic conclusion

Originally Posted by 76C10Stepside

Just wanted to say that I've been lurking, enjoying your Sunbeam build thread for awhile now. FF, the work you're doing is truly inspiring. I'm really looking forward to seeing the finished product. It's going to be... ...wait for it... LEGENDARY! Sorry, couldn't resist.

Hey thanks. Tacoma eh? You should come to the PIR Beaches cruise-in this summer (if you don't already). I'll have it out there ASAP!

Originally Posted by Mal

Hi Frizzel fry. I found this thread on this forum a while ago but could never register to say hi. I finally managed it from a different computer. Love the work you are doing and can't wait to see how the finished car goes and handles.

I used to have a 1964 SV Hillman Mlnx with the 1600cc engine back in the
70's...

Anyway keep up the good work and all the best with the project. I would love to find my old Hillman again but I am afraid it is probably long gone.

Cheers Mal fron NZ

Thanks for the post Mal. It's always interesting to hear from fellow (current or former) Minx owners. It'll be fun when I finally get to park mine next to one. Yours sounds/looks like it could hold its own pretty well. I wonder if the suspension was set higher for NZ..?

Your Tiger project is looking awesome! That is some serious rust repair! Love the steering rack and header work too. I'm a long time Tiger/Alpine fan and have to admit that the Sunbeam name was a draw for me on the Minx. If you really want to track down your old Minx your best bet is probably the Registry maintained by the Hillman Yahoo Group. I'll be watching the Tiger build. Cheers!

[Mal]

Originally Posted by
Thanks for the post Mal. It's always interesting to hear from fellow (current or former) Minx owners. It'll be fun when I finally get to park mine next to one. Yours sounds/looks like it could hold its own pretty well. I wonder if the suspension was set higher for NZ..?

Your Tiger project is looking awesome! That is some serious rust repair! Love the steering rack and header work too. I'm a long time Tiger/Alpine fan and have to admit that the Sunbeam name was a draw for me on the Minx. If you really want to track down your old Minx your best bet is probably the Registry maintained by the [URL="http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/HillmanCars/"

Hillman Yahoo Group[/URL]. I'll be watching the Tiger build. Cheers!

I think the series V1 have a different front spindle height than the SV.
They are the ones Tiger owners who want to lower their cars love to get.
On my old Minx the tyres are probably a 60 series profile instead of 70 series, also the rear spring shackles were lengthened to raise the rear a little as the rear tyres rubbed a little with people in the back seat.
Thanks for the link to the registry, i will check it out.

Cheers Mal

[mcbassin]

Hey FF, What dia. wire do you mig weld with? I have a feeling that is one of my biggest problems, I think my wire is too big and I have to use too much heat to get a nice flat weld.

[Frizzle Fry]

I have played with 023 but I tend to just leave the welder loaded with 030 most of the time.
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[mcbassin]

Originally Posted by Frizzle Fry

I have played with 023 but I tend to just leave the welder loaded with 030 most of the time.
Posted via Mobile Device

I think mine is .035". It's a little on the heavy side if you want to lay it as flat as possible but still get good pentration. I may spool up some .030" on my roll. thanks buddy!

[Hoffa]

FF, that Beaches at PIR event looks very cool. That might be a fun way to spend a Wednesday this Summer.
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[76C10Stepside]

Thanks for the heads-up on the PIR Beaches cruise-in. Sounds like a blast!
Time to give my truck some much needed attention. Put my foot clean through the bed the other day. Time for a new oak bed, spray-on bedliner, carb and brake work.

[Frizzle Fry]

Originally Posted by Mal

I think the series V1 have a different front spindle height than the SV.
They are the ones Tiger owners who want to lower their cars love to get.
On my old Minx the tyres are probably a 60 series profile instead of 70 series, also the rear spring shackles were lengthened to raise the rear a little as the rear tyres rubbed a little with people in the back seat.
Thanks for the link to the registry, i will check it out.

Cheers Mal

That's right I've read about the spindles. I sold all my suspension/engine to a guy with an earlier Husky.

Originally Posted by Hoffa

FF, that Beaches at PIR event looks very cool. That might be a fun way to spend a Wednesday this Summer.
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Do it!

Originally Posted by mcbassin

I think mine is .035". It's a little on the heavy side if you want to lay it as flat as possible but still get good pentration. I may spool up some .030" on my roll. thanks buddy!

Definitely!

Originally Posted by 76C10Stepside

Thanks for the heads-up on the PIR Beaches cruise-in. Sounds like a blast!
Time to give my truck some much needed attention. Put my foot clean through the bed the other day. Time for a new oak bed, spray-on bedliner, carb and brake work.

I'll be there with one of my rigs ...hopefully this one!

[Frizzle Fry]

Meanwhile back at the ranch...

I put the engine/trans back in for the last-last time I wasn't going to until it's painted but I came to the conclusion that verifying the strut braces clear the engine before welding them up, and fitting the exhaust might not be a bad idea.

So the engine is in again. The big brown truck of gifts dropped this off:

Mine's actually the DBX series. They've been changing the name...

That naturally led me to look at where it's going to fit under the car. Looks like there's a good spot under the rear seat pan.

Of course, in order to determine the precise position the rest of the pipes need to be mocked up; starting with the header.

Over the years I've read engine building and tuning books, including a few by David Vizard. This article sums up the exhaust tuning theory pretty well.

Based on the fact that the collector dimensions are as critical as (and some say more critical than) the primaries, I will attempt to build the exhaust system according to those principles as best as I can.

Doing so will consist of three things:

1. Collector sized correctly for this engine/peak power range
2. A wave termination chamber (to simulate atmosphere)
3. As little restriction as possible past that point (while still quieting it down)

What's a wave termination chamber? It's a chamber/box at least 8x the volume of one cylinder that effectively causes a negative pressure pulse wave to be generated by the change in volume (collector to atm. or collector to wave termination box). The negative pressure wave travels back up the header, and if tuned correctly, will arrive at the exhaust valve at just the right time (per tuned RPM) to scavenge the cylinder and "suck" the next intake charge into the cylinder.

Here's what the chamber might look like:


But before I can terminate the wave, I need the "optimal" collector dimensions. Short of finding that on a dyno, there are some pretty well established constants/factors/relationships (lot's of math and experience) put together into formulas. Bottom line, more than I'd prefer to research and calculate. That's where a good software program pays for itself. I went with Pipemax Header Design Software.

Here's what it spit out for a stock F20C with a street Tri-Y header:
[IMG][/IMG]

So given that I (luckily) already have a 2.5" collector, now I just need to make it ~12.1" long:










More to come...

[VA72C10]

very cool! I wonder how this proper scavenging affects the sound of the exhaust. seems it would entirely transform it since it is so tuned with the exhaust pulses....I'm guessing it would be smoothed out.....

[Frizzle Fry]

Originally Posted by VA72C10

very cool! I wonder how this proper scavenging affects the sound of the exhaust. seems it would entirely transform it since it is so tuned with the exhaust pulses....I'm guessing it would be smoothed out.....

I don't know, but as long as it doesn't sound ricer I'll be happy. Hopefully the single chamber will give it a deeper tone and the DBX will mellow out the higher pitch stuff. Really hoping the single chamber doesn't induce that terrible interior resonance/drone that some systems suffer from... We will see!

[watahyahknow]

the therminationboxthing shown in the picture looks like a tuned pipe for a two stroke only in reverse and thats prolly because it does the same thing but out to the pipe instead of back to the intake , it prolly be only effective in a short powerband
i allways figured the scaveging was done in the collector itself and the way the single pipes where put kindah a little too far intoo that collector stopped the returnwaves and allso why they put in the crossover on a V8 it kindah doubles the size of the pipe too
i once heared a trick to find out where to put the crossoverpipe , finish the exaust except for the crossover paint the part you expect the pipe needs to be about and take the car out for a drive until the heat makes the paint crinkle , thats where the exaustpipe gets the hottest and the place you need to put the pipe , i guess it should work determening the place for that therminationbox as thats the place where the gasses colide with the returnwave too

i figure the sound whill be sortah surging howling (think gas/oil heater starting up) once the rpm gets in the pipes range

[Frizzle Fry]

Not sure how to nicely put this, but that's all wrong. Good comedy though Read the linked article if you are interested in understanding the science behind tuning exhaust. I'm no expert by any means, but there are many myths out there that will lead you in the wrong direction if you just accept them as fact.