'66 Sunbeam Minx Project - F20C/6sp/4-link/Discs...

[76C10Stepside]

Thanks for the power coating tips. More questions...

When you pre-bake a part, do you let it cool off before you apply powder?

If you're going to use primer, do you first bake the part, then prime/bake, then top coat/bake, or just prime/bake, then top coat/bake?

How important is convection when baking? I just have a regular stove. I saw a home-made convection oven a guy made from a large tube.

[Jvsapp]

Originally Posted by 76C10Stepside

Thanks for the power coating tips. More questions...

When you pre-bake a part, do you let it cool off before you apply powder?

If you're going to use primer, do you first bake the part, then prime/bake, then top coat/bake, or just prime/bake, then top coat/bake?

How important is convection when baking? I just have a regular stove. I saw a home-made convection oven a guy made from a large tube.

if you were to spray the powder on a piece of metal that was still hot it would instantly flash off to the gloss or matt effect your powder is supposed to. you wouldn't get an even flow out and it could get splotchy in some areas if you are shooting candy or metallics. it's best to let it cool to at least where you can handle it. that way if you make a mistake and get powder where it's not supposed to be(eg lettering) you can dust it off before putting it in the oven. if you are putting powder ontop another color, you will need it to be around 200 degrees for the powder to stick to the color underneath. i haven't really had a need for primer yet, so i don't use it, but i can imagine you will need to preheat a part that is primered to make it stick unless you have a really good gun like the koolcoat systems. i use a craftsman gun because the air supply is included in the gun. no need to run a compressor except to clean the gun up afterwards.

as for oven, if you look at the pics you can see i have a bike frame in mine. my oven is 4'x4'x8'. it's propane fired(even though they tell you not to use propane) and i can bake a part in less than 5 minutes. i can do a full set of wheels in 20 min as opposed to doing one wheel at a time, one side at a time in my old oven(conventional oven). as for convection it would be good because convection evenly displaces the heat around the oven, and i know i do have hotspots in my oven i'm looking for a decent fan that i can run to get the air current to evenly displace the heat. but for what it's worth with 180,000 BTU i can get the part up to 400 degrees in less than 2 minutes. for me time is $. and propane i $25 a tank. i can even do headers at 500 degrees which will be my next attempt. if i were to better insulate my oven i'm sure i can get it up to 700 degrees.

if you need more info, shoot me a PM and i'll give you some tips and what i've experienced. i've been doing it on the side for 6 years now and i've learned a lot.

[65Pickup]

Originally Posted by Jvsapp

i can even do headers at 500 degrees which will be my next attempt. if i were to better insulate my oven i'm sure i can get it up to 700 degrees.

Sorry to add to a potential high jack, but what are the powder options for headers? How does it compare to ceramic coating?

[76C10Stepside]

Yeah, FF, feel free to step in and post new photos! ;-}

Wow, didn't notice that the bike frame was in your oven. Should be able to add convection pretty easily with some 8-inch duct and a direct-drive fan with metal blade. I figure he duct just needs to be long enough to permit the inside air near the fan cool enough to not melt its windings or whatever. Oh, and put the fan at the bottom and the out-vent at the top, of course.

When you do wheels, how much of the inner rim to you coat?

One last question. After applying powder, you blow off the excess powder? Do you use compressed air (how many PSI), or ? Oh, and I assume you can reclaim any powder that falls off as long as it's still clean/pure, right? Thanks!

[Frizzle Fry]

No worries. This is good info. Thanks jvsapp. I need to build an oven...

No new pics to post right now. I've been working out if/how to adjust the trans xmember to allow for a decent sized resonator/term. box (more modifications).

Also dropped off the hood for color matching and picked up some primer
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[Jvsapp]

i thought i could get away with a simple post from my phone but i guess i had to whip out the laptop to reply to these

Originally Posted by 65Pickup

Sorry to add to a potential high jack, but what are the powder options for headers? How does it compare to ceramic coating?

columba coatings has a high temp powders
http://www.columbiacoatings.com/category_s/38.htm

essentially they are like a ceramic, but in a powder format instead of a liquid. they must go on and be cured at 500 degrees for one hour. most house hold ovens can't get up there unless you are using the broiler.
columbia also has a ceramic coating for exhaust
http://www.columbiacoatings.com/category_s/1051.htm

i actually have white and the chrome look. i am yet to find time to try either one out, but i did get my oven up to 500 degrees when i used some of the high temp bronze on my friends calipers for his car. i found out that my burner will ice over the tank after about 25-30 minutes so when i do my headers to get a good cure on them i'll have to use 2 tanks with a dual line setup so i can cut one tank and fire the next tank while one deices. the ceramic is supposed to handle up to 1300 degrees once fully cured, where as the powder only will handle up to 1000 degrees. if you're not running too lean or running a turbo i'm sure 1000 degrees is plenty hot. but for peace of mind i'm going with ceramic when i do my headers for my nova. i like the throw back "white" aluminum coated header look from the late 70's early 80's.

Originally Posted by 76C10Stepside

Yeah, FF, feel free to step in and post new photos! ;-}

Wow, didn't notice that the bike frame was in your oven. Should be able to add convection pretty easily with some 8-inch duct and a direct-drive fan with metal blade. I figure he duct just needs to be long enough to permit the inside air near the fan cool enough to not melt its windings or whatever. Oh, and put the fan at the bottom and the out-vent at the top, of course.

When you do wheels, how much of the inner rim to you coat?

One last question. After applying powder, you blow off the excess powder? Do you use compressed air (how many PSI), or ? Oh, and I assume you can reclaim any powder that falls off as long as it's still clean/pure, right? Thanks!

the bike is actually a low rider cruiser. it uses 26" wheels and the frame was roughly 5' long. it BARELY fit in my blast cabinet. i built my blast cabinet to handle rear ends but i am yet to blast and powder one.

the way i have my oven setup it's still a work in progress. the bottom 1.5 feet is where my rack rolls in and where the burner sits. i am planning to get some form of air mover, not really wanting to vent it much so i can keep the hot air inside. i may put a small 1" vent on the top somewhere like how most conventional ovens have. currently i have just the edges of the corrugated steel unsealed at the top as vents. it's not really that efficient, but i used a BTU converter to figure out how many BTU i needed to heat the space.
http://www.heatershop.com/btu_calculator.htm

my insulation isn't the greatest, it's more like a hot house or smoker where it's just the metal. if you were to touch it you would get burnt. i'm planning to use some DOW insulation(pink panther kind from lowes or HD) and lay it between another layer of metal when i get a chance.

for taking off powder (like the raised letters) i actually use my finger. i wipe the powder off the letters making sure they stay clean. to blow it off it takes some skill. it can be done, but i'm not really doing that much percision. i've tried using tape to pull the powder off, but i keep coming back to a steady finger and wiping the powder off.

columbia has this vacuum gun
http://www.columbiacoatings.com/category_s/924.htm

that's supposed to be able to suck off the powder. to me it looks like this blow gun i got from HF
http://www.harborfreight.com/4-piece...set-68260.html
i haven't tried to hook it up to my vacuum yet, but i'm sure it'll do the same thing.

as for reclaiming powder, if you put down some plastic sheeting prior to spraying you could reclaim what you're not using, but in my case i factor the waste into the price of the job. the trade winds here are too strong to try and it's meager what i would reclaim. i can see companies like miller welding that do ALOT of powdercoating reclaiming what they don't use. but i'm a small time guy so it's not that much to me. besides 1lb of powder is only $10-20 and i can make $160 out of that one pound.

for the overlap on the insides of the wheels it all depends on the job. i ask if they want the insides done too or not. most times i will only strip where the tire actually beads up against. maybe say 1" in and that's it. i will blow powder in that area as well, but anything that get's into the middle of the wheel(where the tire sits) is just there because i don't take it off. it's more like whatever statically clings to that area. i do the face and the backside of the wheel, unless someone specifically asks only for the face and doesn't care about the backside. it all determines what i'm charging because of the amount of powder i will be using. if they want the wheel say gloss black inside, backside and the face that will eat up a whole pound and 1/2 of powder for a 15" wheel. where as just the face maybe 1/2 lb total and faces and backside would be a full pound.

Originally Posted by Frizzle Fry

No worries. This is good info. Thanks jvsapp. I need to build an oven...

with your sheet metal expertise, i'm sure it'll be amazing.... when i was gonna build mine i was going to use metal studs and sheet metal inside and out, but when i started getting containers shipped from japan that were metal 4x4x8 i looked at it as perfect and i can expand by adding another 4x4x8 and just moving the door outwards and adding another burner.
if you plan to i'll shoot you the burner i got off amazon. 180,000 BTU for $40. a few mods to redirect the flame and you'll be ready to cook. i've almost got it down to exactly where i need it to maintain 375-380 degrees on the part constantly. if i run it full open it will get up past 550 degrees.
with better insulation, i will have to relearn the burner though.

[76C10Stepside]

Good stuff! I guess you don't need to remove any powder if you are coating the entire piece (and don't apply way too much).

Wish I had access to free corrugated metal! That stuff's getting EXPENSIVE.

Good point about not wanting to vent out all that hot air. Stove shops sell stove-top fans that use the heat from the stove to turn them. Not sure if it would move enough air.

[watahyahknow]

allways figured that since they electrify the whole thing and the powder gets drawn to the piece depending on how mush is allready on it so metal under thin paint atract more than thick

[dammitmitchell]

im not seeing any progress here...
im dissapointed frizz!

[Lippyp]

Theres a nice squareback like that that one of the parents at my kids school uses as their daily, looks to be totally stockeither and older nicely patinated resto or a well looked after survivor, its in a deep marron with black steels witth chrome hubcaps.

[Frizzle Fry]

Originally Posted by dammitmitchell

im not seeing any progress here...
im dissapointed frizz!

Originally Posted by Lippyp

Theres a nice squareback like that that one of the parents at my kids school uses as their daily, looks to be totally stockeither and older nicely patinated resto or a well looked after survivor, its in a deep marron with black steels witth chrome hubcaps.

Nice! Bet they are a pretty rare site there.

On the Minx... Just finished three 12hr days and one 19hr day at work. I did manage to get some shop time in there though.

Need to make some changes to accommodate the wave termination box:


Muffler will tuck up under the rear seat pan:


Floor pan/DS Tunnel will kick-up for the muffler inlet:




Started working the area and the panel that was removed to create the required shape:

[thor]

Originally Posted by Frizzle Fry

Need to make some changes to accommodate the wave termination box:

[Frizzle Fry]

Originally Posted by Jvsapp

when you blast it, use aluminum oxide, and when you take the part out of the oven, use gloves(nitrile etc) so you don't contaminate it with oil before you coat it. just make sure you blow the dust off after you take it from the blast cabinet. i have a set of headers with that on it on a weld, but never tried it. i'm sure you could let it air dry then bolt it on and run it to make it cook on.

Cool. I use garnet. Any reason to believe alox would be better?

Originally Posted by thor

Been workin long hours at the "real job." Right now it's 12hr days x 6 days/wk.

Nonetheless, I have worked some shop time in here and there. Did some serious degreasing/cleaning of the undercarriage. It's amazing how well a nice coat of oily-dirt-grime preserves metal.

Working on hanging the muffler now. Then I'll connect the dots...

[76C10Stepside]

Originally Posted by Frizzle Fry

Cool. I use garnet. Any reason to believe alox would be better?

I doubt it. Softer and not as sharp as garnet. Maybe cheaper...

Originally Posted by Frizzle Fry

Been workin long hours at the "real job." Right now it's 12hr days x 6 days/wk.

These days it's either a) work you to death for too little pay or b) out of work, and very little else. Whatever happened to honest wages for an honest days work?

Originally Posted by Frizzle Fry

Nonetheless, I have worked some shop time in here and there. Did some serious degreasing/cleaning of the undercarriage. It's amazing how well a nice coat of oily-dirt-grime preserves metal.

Poor man's undercoating!

Originally Posted by Frizzle Fry

Working on hanging the muffler now. Then I'll connect the dots...

Let's see some more photos of the whole car in its current state!

[ERASER5]

Originally Posted by Frizzle Fry

Working on hanging the muffler now. Then I'll connect the dots...

Muffler bearings or the "O" pipe muffler?

[Frizzle Fry]

Also picked up my color matched paint and other supplies. Got some POR-20 to try out on the header too. Anyone use it?

[76C10Stepside]

Originally Posted by Frizzle Fry

Also picked up my color matched paint and other supplies. Got some POR-20 to try out on the header too. Anyone use it?

As usual, you've done a very inspiring job on the newest fabrication!
Why POR-20 on the header? Weren't you touting high-temp power coating the other day? ;-}

[68 TT]

Originally Posted by Frizzle Fry

Also picked up my color matched paint and other supplies. Got some POR-20 to try out on the header too. Anyone use it?

Sounds like a good product. 1400 degrees should hold up on headers if you don't go too lean.

[Frizzle Fry]

Nope. If anything I would ceramic coat it, which requires much higher temps and more capacity than my oven offers. Or pay $300 to have it done professionaly; which is why the POR-20 is worth a shot IMO.
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[smbrouss70]

My dad used the POR-20 on his stock maifolds on his 67 GTO, and says he will never use anything else again. He did clean and media blast them real good before he put it on and applied 3 coats, and it hasn't started to change colors or burn off yet. After seeing how nice it still looks, I'll be using it on my Corvette manifolds. I woud assume it woud work on headers too, as long as you blast them so that they have a good "bite" for the paint.

[Frizzle Fry]

Originally Posted by smbrouss70

My dad used the POR-20 on his stock maifolds on his 67 GTO, and says he will never use anything else again. He did clean and media blast them real good before he put it on and applied 3 coats, and it hasn't started to change colors or burn off yet. After seeing how nice it still looks, I'll be using it on my Corvette manifolds. I woud assume it woud work on headers too, as long as you blast them so that they have a good "bite" for the paint.

Glad to hear it. I understand the metal needs some "bite" (blasted). Also read it helps to preheat the part if possible, then bake at ~300 for an hour to partially cure (maybe between coats?). Apparently it will stay a bit tacky until it gets hot enough to fully cure.
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[Jvsapp]

Originally Posted by Frizzle Fry

Glad to hear it. I understand the metal needs some "bite" (blasted). Also read it helps to preheat the part if possible, then bake at ~300 for an hour to partially cure (maybe between coats?). Apparently it will stay a bit tacky until it gets hot enough to fully cure.
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when you blast it, use aluminum oxide, and when you take the part out of the oven, use gloves(nitrile etc) so you don't contaminate it with oil before you coat it. just make sure you blow the dust off after you take it from the blast cabinet. i have a set of headers with that on it on a weld, but never tried it. i'm sure you could let it air dry then bolt it on and run it to make it cook on.

[smbrouss70]

Yeah, my dad did tell me that, but he just bolted his on and used the exhaust heat to cure it.

[low'n slow]

How are you going to control the heat coming through the floorboard by the seat? Double the floor with an airgap between them?

[Frizzle Fry]

The floor is being raised enough there to accommodate a decent gap. The muffler itself is a Flowmaster DBX, which is supposed to have very low external heat. Combine that with the wave terminator/resonator right behind the header and we should be good. May do some under-hood-type insulation there and the trans tunnel.
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