Make it handle

[Greywolf200]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

How about TOE.
Toe in, or toe out.

A little toe out will keep things going straight, but the car/truck will 'turn in' much quicker. Adding more toe out can help to increase the ability to make tight low-to-medium speed corners (autocross), but will make the vehicle react VERY quickly to any steering input at speeds.

Try it out, and watch the tire wear. You will never get an alignment shop to set your truck up just for you, they will always go to factory spec. (sorry Doc, there may be some exceptions) If you want it to fit you, you'll have to do it yourself.

I took your advice on this and am very happy with the results. The "turn in" is improved and it doesn't push as bad going in. If tire wear becomes an issue I'll just have to figure out a way to deal with it. I wouldn't say that that it reacts VERY quickly at speed...lol, but it does react and there aren't any issues because of it.

When I gave my truck over to the alignment tech, I gave him a file card with the specs I wanted. When he balked at setting it that way, I told him he could set it to my specs or not get paid. He complained that he'd never heard of such a thing, I told him we learn something every day. I made sure to go back a few days later and compliment him on the job he had done.

I want to thank you again for for being willing to share your knowledge with all us peons out hear.

Thanks,

[robnolimit]

I'm glad you were succesfull. What specs did you set it at? Thanks for the feedback, it helps others try it.

[Andy4639]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

http://youtu.be/alZdqiJcrZw

Learning to post video. haha. this is from the Hell Boy last tues night. We need more light.

Yes needs a lot more light!


I liked the other video's though of the side of the truck.

[Greywolf200]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

I'm glad you were succesfull. What specs did you set it at? Thanks for the feedback, it helps others try it.

We ended up with -1* camber(he didn't like that), +2/3* caster and 1/8" toe out(as I said, he really didn't like that). It really improved the handling.

Next I'm going with relocated lower CA's, 1" lowering springs in the front, 2" lowering blocks in the rear and I've recently acquired an 1 1/4" front sway bar off a one ton. I'm considering clipping a couple on inches off the ends of the sway bar and welding on a bracket to use a link to attach it rather than the factory bushing mount.

Am I on the right track?

Thanks,

[robnolimit]

sounds great. keep us posted

[INSIDIOUS '86]

Gonna be buttoning up the front of my truck soon as well. Got my three inch drop spindles and springs and a flip kit with a 1" drop shackle So it be about a 6-7 drop on my square with the front control arms located one inch forward the rear leafs rebuilt and teflon stripped. Shock relocations front and back. New steering components and bilsteins an a one ton sway bar with heim joints on the ends. After all this a rear sway bar and panhard are in order.
Going to try -1* camber 6-7*caster and 1/8ths toe out. We will see how it goes!
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[INSIDIOUS '86]

How's my caster looking? Lol
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[fastwillie 696969]

i would change those old brake lines ,just sayin'

[INSIDIOUS '86]

Originally Posted by fastwillie 696969

i would change those old brake lines ,just sayin'

Russel steel braideds are in transit to my mail box
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[gringoloco]

What ball joints? Concerned with scrub issues on the lowers? Looks like lotsa caster built in. Can you detail your process and any problems you ran into?
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[INSIDIOUS '86]

Originally Posted by gringoloco

What ball joints? Concerned with scrub issues on the lowers? Looks like lotsa caster built in. Can you detail your process and any problems you ran into?
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These are qa1 adjustable ball joints

I want about 7-8 degrees dialed in if possible. I had to trim the crossmember and the sleeves of the lower control arm bushings.

Right now I'm having an issue with my 16" rims rubbing the control arms when I turn to full lock my steering stops are taken off but where the steering stops is before it would ever hit the stop.
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[robnolimit]

How much did you move the lower arm forward?

[robnolimit]

Good monday Truckers. First off, I'm glad to see you guys making some changes and trying this stuff. Anything you do that makes you truck safer, and/or a better driver will increase the chances of you driving it. And after all, that is the goal here.

Friday was a long, frustrating, exciting, fun, hot and wonderfull day. The third annual Truckin' Throwdown was the best yet!! This year trucks were split into two classes, 'street' and 'race'. The deciding factor had to do with build style. If the truck can be duplicated with a credit card and a craftsman 256 pc tool kit, it's 'street'. (and by credit card, they mean it's built with parts that anyone can order, not using your visa to pay a guy like me to build you a one off truck). So, if it required extensive welding, fab and machining to build, it's 'race'. This means you can have a 1000 hp stock chassis truck in the street class, and a 350 hp modified chassis truck in the 'race' class. But, I'm on thier side on this one. This event will only get bigger, and more competetive, and the rules will need to be clear. The four track events are a 1/4 mile Drag Race, 700 ft slalom (10 cones @ 70 ft), Speed-Stop (1000 ft run into a stop box), and this year, what I will call the 'Monster-cross' (an autocross with 100+ mph sections that took 1 min 57 sec to run, if you were really fast!) We left my house at 5:30am, I drove Hellboy and the shop crew were in the dually. 35 mi to Corona where we met up with Mike who had taken the 'Bullit home. From there it's 53 miles to El-Toro. Both trucks ran great down the freeway even with So Cal traffic, and Hellboy got 26 mpg!!! WOW, thats a shocker. We topped of at the shell station and drove in to the old air station. Things were already going. First we were informed that the 'Bullit would not be making competetive runs, since it was last years winner, but that Mike could drive in all events. Hey, thats life. Hellboy passed tech, and was definately in the 'race' class. We saw some old friends, and met some new ones. I was shocked at the amount of raw horsepower. three trucks with 1000+! We ran the slalom first, and learned of a new problem, running the slalom at 65+ in 2nd gear, I'm steering at 6000+rpm, and the pump is causing the steering to be VERY tight. I did get some solid runs in, but it was a new feeling, usually I'm off the throttle or part throttle in a corner, not full. A phone call to KRC tells us we need to change the high pressure valve in the pump. After some tire pressure changes it was drag race time. The trans shows me who's boss. It does not like to shift under load from 2-3. I have since found out this is common. This plagued us all day. - and I'm sure it cost some time. All I know is I was at 116-120 mph at the end of the 1/4. During the Speed-Stop, shifting was a problem also, but the new brake pads worked well. On my 2nd run, my foot slipped over just enough to touch the gas pedal for a second, and I went through the stop box by 2 feet. I was a bit pissed on that one, as it would have been my best Speed-Stop ever! Finally it was autocross time, and as we went out for parade laps, it just kept going, and going. Shifting was a must, as some corners were 5-10 mph, and some straights were 100+. Even with the shifting problems this was the coolest autocross ever. I know that Scott Call in his 69 ford ran the fast lap at 1.53, a full 2 sec faster than my 1.55, he makes it look too easy. We did win the race class, and as we get Hellboy sorted out, it shows more and more promise. We took a lot of video, and I'm now learning how to edit. Give me a few days and I'll get some up. Thanks

[INSIDIOUS '86]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

How much did you move the lower arm forward?

It's forward 1 inch. Lol made me toe out an inch and a half, I need to get an alignment. But even with the toe crazy and nothing aligned. The turn in and cornering seem good. I'm excited to see what it does with an alignment.

I think I may have to get rid of the drop springs and do cut 3/4ton springs to keep the front from moving so much over bumps cause right now I bottom out and it's just to soft of a ride
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[Matt R]

Thats awesome ^^^ Out west seems like the place to be for these types of events.

Hey, I have a question about the above suspension. I've heard people talking about the tall or adjustable ball joints. What exactly do they do? I would guess they allow you to get the A arms closer to paralell with each other and the ground but i've guessed wrong many times!!! Info on this subject would be cool, thanks.

[robnolimit]

1" is good. should be able to get 6* - 7* caster easy. lol, you only need a 1/16" to 1/8" toe out, .... not 1 1/8". Just try the 3/4t spring, full hieght if you don't want it that low, but hang on to the drop spindle for now. - remember, only change one thing at a time.

[SBTork]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

We took a lot of video, and I'm now learning how to edit. Give me a few days and I'll get some up. Thanks

Can't wait to see some video

It sounds like it was a fun day!

[INSIDIOUS '86]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

1" is good. should be able to get 6* - 7* caster easy. lol, you only need a 1/16" to 1/8" toe out, .... not 1 1/8". Just try the 3/4t spring, full hieght if you don't want it that low, but hang on to the drop spindle for now. - remember, only change one thing at a time.

Well I'm going to cut the spring in one inch drop increments and then let them settle for a week and do it again till I have my drop to be desired.

Then it's working on getting the rear to stick in a corner. Which as is I'm sure my front end will outperform the rear unroll the rear has a panhard and sway
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[duallyjams]

Originally Posted by SBTork

Can't wait to see some video

It sounds like it was a fun day!

x2

[INSIDIOUS '86]

These reverse Ackerman angles are killing me! >
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[robnolimit]

It has always made me wonder, if your going to make dropped spindles, why wouldn't you change the ackermen, sort out some bumpsteer, and adjust the spindle hieght for a better camber gain???? but - no.

Originally Posted by INSIDIOUS '86

These reverse Ackerman angles are killing me! >
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[robnolimit]

Taller, and adjustable ball joints are used to tune/adjust the roll center, and/or increase the camber gain rate. Most commonly they are used in the upper ball joint, Raising the UBJ can increase camber gain, and raise the roll center.

Originally Posted by Matt R

Thats awesome ^^^ Out west seems like the place to be for these types of events.

Hey, I have a question about the above suspension. I've heard people talking about the tall or adjustable ball joints. What exactly do they do? I would guess they allow you to get the A arms closer to paralell with each other and the ground but i've guessed wrong many times!!! Info on this subject would be cool, thanks.

[INSIDIOUS '86]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

It has always made me wonder, if your going to make dropped spindles, why wouldn't you change the ackermen, sort out some bumpsteer, and adjust the spindle hieght for a better camber gain???? but - no.

So what can we do to fix Ackerman? I know it will involve cutting spindles and such. But if someone was feeling adventurous where would we start?
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[BLK2K2SILVY]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

It has always made me wonder, if your going to make dropped spindles, why wouldn't you change the ackermen, sort out some bumpsteer, and adjust the spindle hieght for a better camber gain???? but - no.

Im in for your first production run!

[robnolimit]

You asked, so please listen carefully I have cut and welded on many a spindle. Almost always in a situation where I had control over the periodic inspection of the car/truck. My F-100, the 'Bullit, has been on welded spindles fo years. These were the prototypes for our ZG spindles now used on our Wide-Ride IFS. You have to be carefull, you have to start with a good spindle, and you have to weld it, really weld it. If I cut a steering arm off to reposition it, once i have it fitted for the new location, I gring a 3/8" bevel on both the spindle body and the arm to put the weld in. Then i smoothe weld out and fishplate the seam with 3/16 cold roll on the inside and outside. I usually MIG the first welds, then TIG the fishplate. Moving the outer TRE out toward the rotor can help with ackermen, but may start to interfere with the rim. - making the arm shorter can make the steering quicker, both of these can play havoc with the bumpsteer. Usually I'd say not to move it more than 1/2" in any direction.