Build #2 Crusader!

[Car'n'Guitars]

Great work, and great innovating.

[Last_Paladin]

Originally Posted by mrhino

No! this is the first time iv used this kinda bracket, and the first full floater iv worked with. Because its designed differently than others the manufacture has offered this explanation on there ad.

" we no longer using DOM tube spacers and now taking up the space w/ 4 small angles that have been laser cut for a precise fit and welded to your brackets. What does this mean? Well for one it means no more having to use a BFH to try and get a bent bracket to line up, only to have your pads wear at a quick uneven pace. Would the pads not lining up correctly causing bad brake performance? The answer is yes and in the long run more money from your pocket. I have never heard of bolt failure as some claim can happen. Do not be fooled by gimmicks, multiply hole locations for different pinion angles mean nothing. The only thing that matters is that the bleeder needs to be on the upside, so that the brakes can be bled. Increasing pinion angles only means that the bleeder will be higher, which is what you want anyhow! Disc Brake brackets that have been formed (bent in a z - shape) will fail under stress! Forming steel of any kind creates cracks (sometimes very tiny) at the bend areas! This could be very dangerous! The tensile strength on one grade 8 1/2 inch diameter fine thread bolt is 24,000 lbs. This is multiplied by four per bracket. Your rear brakes that contribute 20% of your overall braking on the vehicle will not shear off 96,000 lbs of tensile strength!"




once again That was from there ads. all I can say is I found there product to be exactly what they said and i was pleased with the quality of their work.

as far as the hitch I dont believe it is bolted to the frame in the center. Id have to check to be positive but i dont think it is. being welded all the way around, I never gave it a thought. I see what your saying about the back and forth motion a trailer would apply (unlike the lift gate). Prolly would be a good idea to puts some bolts in there.

That would be correct (bolt information from the ad) if it were holding two solid pieces of metal together (like the factory set up), in tension. He is using the wrong value. We're talking about shear load(s)

The spec on a 1/2 bolt by itself is more like 940lbs of shear resistance before it breaks. You can take one, thread it all the way in and break it with a breaker bar applying shock loads like a panic stop.

Data from here:
Notice in this, how the bolt is completely supported, look around page 27 for shear control, the bolt is complete enveloped. They also talk about using washers to provide greater clamping force via the tensile strength of the bolt:

http://www.fastenal.com/content/docu...renceGuide.pdf

and

http://dodgeram.org/tech/specs/bolts..._strength.html

and

http://www.derose.net/steve/resource...lts.html#shear

Now that angle iron does provide some friction, but I have to wonder why GM (and any other axle or auto manufacturer -the master penny pincher) do complete coverage on all of their brake set ups (sort of like the picture I posted, found on the web).

Again, they probably work. He probably has no failures. I'd hate for you to you be his first.

[mrhino]

after reading your first post several times and now the second post I now understand exactly what you mean. If DOM tubbing or the spacer like you posted were used how much more force do you think would be needed to sheer off those same 1/2 bolts? Im not sure but just looking at the set up the weakest link in the whole thing, looks to be the mounting pins. they are 3/8 (if that) and im sure there not hardened plus there just floating in the caliper.
I hope im not the first either.

[Last_Paladin]

Originally Posted by mrhino

after reading your first post several times and now the second post I now understand exactly what you mean. If DOM tubbing or the spacer like you posted were used how much more force do you think would be needed to sheer the head off those same 1/2 bolts? Im not sure but just looking at the set up the weakest link in the whole thing, looks to be the mounting pins. they are 3/8 (if that) and im sure there not hardened plus there just floating in the caliper.
I hope im not the first either.

I read somewhere that you need to surround the bolt with the same amount of material as the bolt is thick.

So, if you have a 1/2" bolt, a 1/2" of material completely around it works.
You're then talking tensile strength of the bolt, since it's not the only items resisting the stresses. It's the clamped force of the material.

As for the pins, they don't hold the caliper in place. The flat edge of bracket does that and transfers all the rotational force down the bracket and to those bolts.

[mrhino]

I see. with enough material around the bolt the clamping force over comes the sheer force. Like if you left it loose, it would be easier to break the bolts than if it were tightened. so i guess the big question is can the truck in a sudden stop situation create enough force to overcome the clamping force with the angle iron. that sound about right.

[arrover]

Wow! Awesome job on the seat!

[Last_Paladin]

Originally Posted by mrhino

I see. with enough material around the bolt the clamping force over comes the sheer force. Like if you left it loose, it would be easier to break the bolts than if it were tightened. so i guess the big question is can the truck in a sudden stop situation create enough force to overcome the clamping force with the angle iron. that sound about right.

Exactly.

[mrhino]

Update. In the last couple of weeks I did manage to finish the floor. I put my rear end all back together. I Cleaned it, installed new bearings and seals. I did go ahead and use the 4:10 gear ratio I figured it would help with towing and the bigger tires. Plus added new Amsoil gear oil. I also Got the brakes all bleed and put on the wheels before dropping it on the ground. This truck never came with interior trim. so I mocked that all up and drilled holes. while doing this I made the decision to complete all the interior before putting the truck on hold, while I get my business up and running, and before I started on my little shortbed restoration project. I had Tyler removed all the door panels, and gutted the interior out. we removed the back glass so we could paint and put in the headliner board. on Sunday we had a "sanding party" The whole family got involved. In a few days we should have everything scuffed and ready. By then my epoxy primer and clear should be here from SPI. And I Also Got in my sound deadener (acoustical damping material). this is one of the products I will selling soon. Hopefully I can have all this done a week or so.

[owner 84]

so happy to see this update

keep up bro

[gmech]

Nice progress Mike and family.

[Car'n'Guitars]

Any updates on this build or the truck?

[Low Elco]

Business or truck, hows it going? Hopefully well!
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[68 Four on the Floor]

Awesome build. Looking forward to more

[mrhino]

Holy crap! Boy, what the hell are you doing!



I know its been awhile since I posted anything on the truck. It takes time to download photos and think of clever things to write. and It just seams like i cant find time to get everything I want too done. I try to work on the truck every night. somtimes i go out and just stare at it, trying to figure out my next move. and other days i can actually spend a few hours on it. either way it just doesnt seam like i cant get that much done on it. so my apologies for slacking on the thread.

When i last left off we had a sanding party, getting ready for some paint on the door jams, lower dash, and inside of the doors. well we got it painted. it turned out pretty good. I didnt do any body work just scuffed it and shot it with some epoxy primer, then painted it black then sprayed some SPI clear. Everything went ok till I shot the first coat of clear. As soon as i was done I got terribly sick to my stomach. spent the rest of the night... Incapacitated, therefor I only got one coat of clear on the jams. But no worries it looks pretty good, and SPI is the best clear in the world, so it should hold up good.



Before I painted I went out to the scrape yard and took off some OH sh!t handles from a burb and fabricated a mounting system in the crew. I also grabbed all the power window regulators and motors as well as the power locks and harnesses.

I measured and drilled some holes



ground down to bare metal. then welded in a 1/4 lock nut



once the headliners is in they should bolt right up.



I had planned to put the interior back together and start driving it till the fall again. But like everything else in my life, it never goes as planned. I been going back and forth with making this truck a short bed. Short beds up here are not very common. and when you do find one its either a rusted p.o.s. or it way too much money. 2 weeks ago I found a guy on craigslist looking for a long bed. I gave him a email, sent some pictures and the next thing I know He's on his way to come pick it up. Great! ( I really wasn't expecting it to happen that fast.) Now I thinking where the heck am I going to get a bed. I think it was the next day or the same day (dont remember) I found a "rust free" shortbed on craigslist about 3 hours away. fearing some other nut job would buy it out from under me. Me and a buddy drove down that night to check it out/ buy it. Well it was Rust free unfortunately it was not dent free. somebody was awfully mad at the left side of their truck. it will probably need a new bedside. but I got it for less then I sold my long bed for. so at this point Im ahead.
With the new bed in storage for one month. I started measuring and cutting the frame. 14 inches in the front is what needs removed.




I went back and forth on how to cut this. I have seen some use diagonal cuts, z cuts, and the straight cut. I did a little research I couldnt find a true answer on which one is better. each one has its week points. (pun intended) I live and work in the RV capitol of the world. Out of the 30 or so plants I make deliveries too 6 of those build or have units with extended frames including ARI they build and and add custom sleepers to semi's. every one of them uses the straight cut and butt weld. I figure if its good enough for them it should be good enough for me. Plus its easier. and it cant be wrong Lou and Jared did it!




I marked the frame and cut it! tyler finished all the edges and got it ready to weld. I had to rent a welder because my little 110v welder is not going to get it. at least i didnt feel safe using it. so I rented one from the local rent a center. I got a huge one. I had to tow it behind the truck. So im sure it was over kill but it got the job done.



With the 14 inch piece we removed I cut 4 1/2 diamond out of it and welded that to the back side fusing the two half's together.





The remaining 9 1/2" piece is where the gas tank saddles were mounted. so I cut the top part off, drilled it so it would mount to the side and bottom of the frame. the top part I cut off slide under the top part of the frame and bolted it in. Now it is braced on both sides of the weld and the top and bottom.







Obviously the 20 gallon tank is going to be to long. Craigslist to the rescue again. Found a guy about 25 min. away sell a 16 gallon tank and thats it. Its the only thing he had for our trucks. I gave him $40 for it. Turns out he is wanting a long bed tank for a buddy. so I sold him one. for you guessed it $40. Cleaned the inside good, and transfered over my pump and hanger, got some new hose. ( from 3 different parts stores). incompetent freaking autoparts stores now days. You would think I was asking for a fuel hose for the left side rocket booster on the space shuttle. god dont get me started on them tards





The rear section is suppose to get cut 6" but I going to put on a different hitch. I'm questioning the one me and Tyler just put on. so its getting a different one and it is long I don't think i can cut the full 6" off. and still make it work. Iv measured a couple of times now and it looks like I can cut as few as 4" off. Today is trying to get the hitch mounted up along with the bumper. and hopefully I can get the short bed out of storage and mounted on the truck. Im anxious to see what it looks like shortened up.

[Car'n'Guitars]

Cool man good to hear more updates on this truck. Good luck with it, can't wait to see this thing around town.

[67cheby]

great progress !!

[Last_Paladin]

I am a fan of the z cuts. Either way, with the plating you did, it should be fine, since you moved the stress zones out and they're not in direct shear. By going | up and down, you add a stress point by heating the frame on either side, baking the carbon out of it and making it more brittle. So, when you add weight, it's focused on the frame straight up and down. Instead of Z or / like.

Remember, the big truck frames are heat treated, which is why they say not to weld on them. So, when they cut, butt and weld, they re-treat it to some degree, no carbon to bake out, it's all steel with little chance of inclusions. At least the shops I use do.

[gmech]

Just think how much easier it will be to park now. Not to mention being able walk around now in your garage rather than having to climb over it! Liking the progress.

[Leedogg]

Nice build and documentation!

[Low Elco]

Looks great!

[mrhino]

Finished up the frame shorting. we ended up taking 4" off the back it looks like you can take up to 6" and be safe. I hope 4" is enough, I wanted to leave room for diffrent Hitch I put on. I was unsure about the first hitch I made fit, so I cut off those extension pieces and mounted a different hitch that was made for the truck, I feel much better about using that one.




I Got the drive shaft back from the machine shop and installed that. Poured in a few gallons of fuel, and fired it up. It was nice to see it move under its own power Again.




Now that its shortened it sure made it easier to get out of the garage.

We then cleaned and degreased the frame, and Deb and Sara coated it with KBS rust seal. Rust seal is a good Product, iv used it before on project Silver Dollar.

[Low Elco]

Always good to have em move on their own again. Looks good!
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[68 Four on the Floor]

Looking good man!

[Cherub]

Man i wish i had a crew to help me. hahaha

[mrhino]

finally Got some sound deadner down. This stuff works great. Im going to be putting a kits together, to sell to fourm members. Starting with enough material to cover A reg cab floor and the back of the cab. then enough to do a crew, then doors and roof. the cost will probably be around $150. to do a regular cab. Im still working on the packaging as of right now. Im looking to get at least 11 verbal commitments to get the ball rolling. Ill post something in the sale area in the coming days. I used the 24x48 but I think the 18x 32 will be better to start off with.


This acoustical damping material is comparable to brand leader Dynamat extream. In fact I really cant tell you how comparable it is. Its almost like they come from the same manufacturer. .067 thick, peel away craft paper, sticks very well and has foil face. it comes in 18"x32" or 24X48 if any one is interested please feel free to ask.