Uncle Loyd's 72' C-10

[cornerstone]

Originally Posted by notsolo

I used Rattle trap, 50sqft....and 2 layers of close cell foam all under the dash and up the back....100sq ft...Looks like EZ cool is the closest to what I have.

Im guessing there is a difference between closed cell foam and foil backed bituthene? I’ve seen the closed cell stuff at nearly .5” thick, whereas the foil backed butyl stuff seems to all be anywhere from .80 mil (.03”) to 1.57 mil. (.06”).... pardon if my math sucks. I don’t get their advertising, they say it’s 80 mil thick, but apparently that is the equivalent of 3.14 inches. What am I missing here? I understand some of these products are primarily designed for sound reduction and some are primarily heat and cold resistant. It’s my impression that the butyl foil backs stuff is for more for sound reduction, and the thicker closed cell stuff is for insulation...Is that fair to say?

Either way more is better I figure. I followed suit and have another 36 square feet of the “Siless” on the way. If someone can convince me why I need the closed cell stuff I’m all ears.

FedEx had dropped off my new electric fan this afternoon so I got busy and managed to get it fit into my original fan shroud.
Credit goes to board member 71Rat for this mod. It’s from an 03 Jeep Cherokee, and it looks like it could have been straight from the General in 1972. Well, if they even were using electric fans back then... It’s a perfect fit!

[Kronald_70GMC]

Right on man! Keep the progress pics coming.

[TA_C10]

So, the butyl stuff dampens the metal, vibration. The butyl won't burn either so it can take the heat but doesn't really stop it from passing through. That's where the shiny stuff comes in. It's foil backing can do a bit of heat isolation/reflection.

Closed cell foam does 3 things we care about. It absorbs sound. It insulates. It doesn't absorb moisture. Closed cell foam has been used in acoustic rooms for years like radio booths and recording studios. Many other uses too. But you get more sound and heat/cold insulation from the closed cell foam than you do the foil backed butyl.

This is why car manufacturers use only small patches of the butyl stuff(or similar) because they figured out it's main advantage is vibration dampening. You only need it strategically placed to do it's job correctly. Then they focus on insulation under the carpet. The insulation they choose has the same 3 property's that closed cell foam has. Jute padding usually. But some use CC foam too.

Price is our big factor too. While you do get benefit doing the whole floor (not just strategic small spots) with the butyl. Its nothing compared to what closed cell foam can do. But put the two together, and that's Bentley comfort baby

Another way to put it:
Butyl stops the metal vibrations and oil canning.
CC foam absorbs the muffler drone, makes your stereo sound better that it really is, and keeps you comfortable in the winter and the summer doing it.

.

[cornerstone]

Originally Posted by TA_C10

So, the butyl stuff dampens the metal, vibration. The butyl won't burn either so it can take the heat but doesn't really stop it from passing through. That's where the shiny stuff comes in. It's foil backing can do a bit of heat isolation/reflection.

Closed cell foam does 3 things we care about. It absorbs sound. It insulates. It doesn't absorb moisture. Closed cell foam has been used in acoustic rooms for years like radio booths and recording studios. Many other uses too. But you get more sound and heat/cold insulation from the closed cell foam than you do the foil backed butyl.

This is why car manufacturers use only small patches of the butyl stuff(or similar) because they figured out it's main advantage is vibration dampening. You only need it strategically placed to do it's job correctly. Then they focus on insulation under the carpet. The insulation they choose has the same 3 property's that closed cell foam has. Jute padding usually. But some use CC foam too.

Price is our big factor too. While you do get benefit doing the whole floor (not just strategic small spots) with the butyl. Its nothing compared to what closed cell foam can do. But put the two together, and that's Bentley comfort baby

Another way to put it:
Butyl stops the metal vibrations and oil canning.
CC foam absorbs the muffler drone, makes your stereo sound better that it really is, and keeps you comfortable in the winter and the summer doing it.

.

Thanks man. I think I’ll get some of the closed cell stuff on order also, because I’m all about Bently comfort.

[TA_C10]

Oh, and the math. 3mil is a really good trash bag for the shop(reference).

1mil = .001 inch = household trash bag
3mil = .003 inch = lawn/shop trash bag
20mil = .02 inch = debit card?
80mil = .08 inch = foil backed butyl

80mil is between 1/16" and 1/8", closer to 1/16.

.

[MDPotter]

Is that a variable or 2 speed fan? Are you using the PWM function to run it or did you find a way around that for a high/low function?

From what research I've done, Gen V's are accompanied by fans that have three wires running to them - constant power, ground, and a control wire that comes from the PCM. Is that what you have?

[cornerstone]

Originally Posted by MDPotter

Is that a variable or 2 speed fan? Are you using the PWM function to run it or did you find a way around that for a high/low function?

From what research I've done, Gen V's are accompanied by fans that have three wires running to them - constant power, ground, and a control wire that comes from the PCM. Is that what you have?

There you go again, revealing my ignorance.

On Gringoloco’s thread, he mentioned the one he went with was a Spectra brand, and it had 2 speeds. I went to hunting the web for that one, and as usual I started price comparison shopping along with seeing who could get it to me the fastest. In the midst of all that I don’t even know which one I bought. If my head wasn’t attached I’d probably walk off and leave it.

I do know the fan has only 2 wires. I tested it with a motorcycle battery and it spun up to speed in a hurry, at the same time the bare ground wire nearly burned through my finger. (Note to self, next time don’t use bailing wire.)

When I get back to the house I’ll look at the harness to see how many wires are designated for the fan. If my memory is right I just remember 1 blue wire for the fan, so if that’s the case would that be a signal wire?

[MDPotter]

Originally Posted by cornerstone

There you go again, revealing my ignorance.

On Gringoloco’s thread, he mentioned the one he went with was a Spectra brand, and it had 2 speeds. I went to hunting the web for that one, and as usual I started price comparison shopping along with seeing who could get it to me the fastest. In the midst of all that I don’t even know which one I bought. If my head wasn’t attached I’d probably walk off and leave it.

I do know the fan has only 2 wires. I tested it with a motorcycle battery and it spun up to speed in a hurry, at the same time the bare ground wire nearly burned through my finger. (Note to self, next time don’t use bailing wire.)

When I get back to the house I’ll look at the harness to see how many wires are designated for the fan. If my memory is right I just remember 1 blue wire for the fan, so if that’s the case would that be a signal wire?

I'm here to learn, and I don't know if the LT fans are 2-speed or variable. I was hoping you could tell me since you're on the cutting edge of C10 swaps here! I bet they're 2-speed though. I was looking at 2016 Camaro SS fans because that's what Mitch is using and it's also a single fan. He has constant power, ground, and a third wire that goes straight to the fan which is the control wire. No relays. Clean setup.

[cornerstone]

...

Originally Posted by MDPotter

I'm here to learn, Same here! and I don't know if the LT fans are 2-speed or variable. I was hoping you could tell me since you're on the cutting edge of C10 swaps here! Lol... no, not me. Aboesec10 and 87Chevy.com are some of the guys who have had running and driving LT’s for a long time now.I bet they're 2-speed though. I was looking at 2016 Camaro SS fans because that's what Mitch is using and it's also a single fan. He has constant power, ground, and a third wire that goes straight to the fan which is the control wire. No relays. Clean setup. Yes I saw that and your right. Very clean. I have the dual fans that came from the 14 Silverado donor and for a long time considered using them, but then I wouldn’t have a shroud.

[TA_C10]

Looking good man! Shew that's close. Normally you would be fine but since your bagged, yeah, gonna need some more clearance. What are you thinking your gonna do to resolve?

[cornerstone]

Originally Posted by TA_C10

Looking good man! Shew that's close. Normally you would be fine but since your bagged, yeah, gonna need some more clearance. What are you thinking your gonna do to resolve?

The only thing I can think of is to pull out the 2x4's currently holding the weight and let it drop to the bump stops (gotta make those too), then cut away what ever is in the space the driveshaft needs to occupy with my trusty plasma cutter. After the driveshaft has about 1/2" clearance at full drop, start the restructuring of the crossmember and the cab sheet metal, if I have to open it up and build a tunnel.

[cornerstone]

Yesterday I installed another 18 square feet of sound deadener, this time it was the “Siless” brand. I used a heater designed for keeping baby chicks warm to pre heat the stuff while I used a heat gun on the metal surface it was to be applied to. It really bonded quite well to the metal, Im thinking it will have a great result with keeping noises out, and keeping Willie Nelson noises in. I still have another 18 feet to install in the doors... I’m hoping to get that solid THUD! when I close the door.

I moved on to the Vintage Air install... something I really am not looking forward to. I’m just not as flexible as I used to be and I’ll often hurt for days after crawling around on my back working up underneath a dashboard. I took the passenger door off the truck and that helped in fitting the evaporator under the dash. It was still a real PIA to get it in there and I’m sure I’ll have to do it a few more times but o well... just another price we will pay to drive one of the most desirable classic trucks in the world I guess. I want to have zero bolts on the firewall that I smoothed out , and the kit calls for 3 bolts to run through it. I’m like to weld some studs on the inside to mount the evaporator, unless someone has a better idea. I do have a question for those of you who have already done this... which hole in the floorboard did you run the drain water out of? The hose provided in the kit will reach 2 different holes in the passenger floor toe board. I like the one farthest off to the left hand side, but I think it will be draining the water onto the back of the wheel well housing if I stick with that location. The other available hole is more in the middle of the toe board, but seems like it will be more easily kicked by passengers there.

[cornerstone]

I also got the dashboard cut and fitted the vent for the heat and air... I used the template they provide and laid down some painters tape before I marked the location to cut. I drilled out the corners first, then since it cut so quickly, I decided to just keep on drilling all the way around. I then used my oscillating tool to connect the dots. Finished up fitment with a file and glad to see the gap between the dash and the vent livable. Others have had large gaps and needed to add filler to close up the distance. Plus I think the dash pad will hide whatever gap is there anyways.

[TA_C10]

Originally Posted by cornerstone

Yesterday I installed another 18 square feet of sound deadener, this time it was the “Siless” brand. I used a heater designed for keeping baby chicks warm to pre heat the stuff while I used a heat gun on the metal surface it was to be applied to. It really bonded quite well to the metal, Im thinking it will have a great result with keeping noises out, and keeping Willie Nelson noises in. I still have another 18 feet to install in the doors... I’m hoping to get that solid THUD! when I close the door.

I moved on to the Vintage Air install... something I really am not looking forward to. I’m just not as flexible as I used to be and I’ll often hurt for days after crawling around on my back working up underneath a dashboard. I took the passenger door off the truck and that helped in fitting the evaporator under the dash. It was still a real PIA to get it in there and I’m sure I’ll have to do it a few more times but o well... just another price we will pay to drive one of the most desirable classic trucks in the world I guess. I want to have zero bolts on the firewall that I smoothed out , and the kit calls for 3 bolts to run through it. I’m like to weld some studs on the inside to mount the evaporator, unless someone has a better idea. I do have a question for those of you who have already done this... which hole in the floorboard did you run the drain water out of? The hose provided in the kit will reach 2 different holes in the passenger floor toe board. I like the one farthest off to the left hand side, but I think it will be draining the water onto the back of the wheel well housing if I stick with that location. The other available hole is more in the middle of the toe board, but seems like it will be more easily kicked by passengers there.

I know what you mean hurting for a couple days. My neighbor and I just pulled 2 twelve hour shifts building a fence this weekend. I won't be worth much this week. And for the drain I went with the center location. That drain line isn't ideal but in the center the passenger feet will typically straddle it for the most part. I have that drop the instructions called for too. I drilled a hole in floorboard so I could squeeze the 90 degree fitting attached to hose and it be super snug. No sealer.

.

[cornerstone]

Originally Posted by TA_C10

I know what you mean hurting for a couple days. My neighbor and I just pulled 2 twelve hour shifts building a fence this weekend. I won't be worth much this week. And for the drain I went with the center location. That drain line isn't ideal but in the center the passenger feet will typically straddle it for the most part. I have that drop the instructions called for too. I drilled a hole in floorboard so I could squeeze the 90 degree fitting attached to hose and it be super snug. No sealer.

.

Thanks. That's where most of the guys place it based on the photos I see out there. I'll move mine to the center also and just plug the hole I jabbed it in... I guess the carpet lays over the port?

[cornerstone]

I want to figure out a way to keep my firewall smooth. The VA evaporator needs to be bolted to the inside of the firewall. If I weld a couple studs to hang the thing I doubt I'll have enough room to reinstall it. Has anyone found a better solution besides this idea?

[TA_C10]

Yeah I just cut a slit in my carpet and it went around the hose no problem.

[1971Stepside]

I put my drain hole more to where you have Option 2, but I put mine as high up but still under that cab support. The hose will run down inside that to below the inner fender. I would post a pic, but I don't have the truck.

[sprint_9]

I'll see if I can get you a picture of mine. I ran it out the side of the cab, I thought it worked out pretty slick.

Ok here are some pictures of mine. I drilled a hole out under the cowl vent. I used the stock Vintage air drain hose to get it out that far, then I bought a 90 degree fitting and ran some clear hose down out between the cab and the fender. I used a grommet and got a nice press fit so everything is sealed good, I also used clamps on everything so it wont fall apart with time or leak. I haven't used it yet but everything has fall so it should work fine.

[cornerstone]

Originally Posted by sprint_9

I'll see if I can get you a picture of mine. I ran it out the side of the cab, I thought it worked out pretty slick.

Ok here are some pictures of mine. I drilled a hole out under the cowl vent. I used the stock Vintage air drain hose to get it out that far, then I bought a 90 degree fitting and ran some clear hose down out between the cab and the fender. I used a grommet and got a nice press fit so everything is sealed good, I also used clamps on everything so it wont fall apart with time or leak. I haven't used it yet but everything has fall so it should work fine.

Thanks for the pictures Sprint, I believe I like your design the best!

[cornerstone]

I started messing with my doors. I noticed on the inside, I have surface rust that I’d like to get rid of before I try to paint this truck. My first inclination is to use my new small blaster, assuming I can fit it in the access holes and reach the problem areas. Any other ideas?

[MDPotter]

Originally Posted by cornerstone

I started messing with my doors. I noticed on the inside, I have surface rust that I’d like to get rid of before I try to paint this truck. My first inclination is to use my new small blaster, assuming I can fit it in the access holes and reach the problem areas. Any other ideas?

Those spots are hard to get to. If you try to blast them, the sand/air is going to blow back at you and it'll be an unpleasant task. I pulled the skins off my truck, had the shell blasted, then epoxied them but if you don't need to replace the skins then I would try getting in there with a red scotchbrite and/or a wire brush to take off the loose rust and then use a rattle can rust encapsulator like Eastwood.

[cornerstone]

Originally Posted by MDPotter

Those spots are hard to get to. If you try to blast them, the sand/air is going to blow back at you and it'll be an unpleasant task. I pulled the skins off my truck, had the shell blasted, then epoxied them but if you don't need to replace the skins then I would try getting in there with a red scotchbrite and/or a wire brush to take off the loose rust and then use a rattle can rust encapsulator like Eastwood.

Yeah, not a fun job for sure. I’ll look into the differences between the red scotchbrite and the green, I’m guessing the red is more coarse? I’ve heard so many mixed reviews about rust encapsulators, but I think the majority of problems are from painting over it. The only thing I will do is add sound deadener inside the doors. Thanks man.

[1971Stepside]

I want to figure out a way to keep my firewall smooth. The VA evaporator needs to be bolted to the inside of the firewall. If I weld a couple studs to hang the thing I doubt I'll have enough room to reinstall it. Has anyone found a better solution besides this idea?

I welded the studs in on my firewall on the inside. I have plenty of room to bolt them up. It is fun getting the hoses connected on the inside though.

[1971Stepside]

I scuffed as much off with 80 grit as I could and then sealed the inside up with POR15. My body shop recommended that. I will put dyno mat over the POR at some point. My drivers door is a newbie so I just left it as is.