Hooker Blackheart 1967-72 C10 Truck LS/LT Swap System Info Thread

[toddoky]

Originally Posted by Snowman34

Our son and I are working on a '72 C10 Fleetside that we've completely redone virtually all of the front end on, Wilwood disc brake conversion, RideTech StreetGrip install, and new steering set-up incl. a new Borgeson steering box. Next up will be a new exhaust system once we get a few wiring items straightened out.

Our present set up is a 1st gen 350 w/TH350. Has a carb w/headers. Exhaust comes out directly in front of the rear wheels. Gas tank has been relocated to the rear. Previous owners put Cherry Bomb Extreme's on. The drone is excessive and wears on us after 10 minutes or so.

Our eventual goal is a daily driver. An exhaust system is next up for us. Just found the Blackheart system and we're very interested & looks like this could very well be a potential option for us. Since we have a 1st gen SBC w/headers, we are uncertain if this set up would be compatible with what we have. We are interested in the Borla S-Type exhaust as well, due to presumably having "no drone". We'd prefer to have the exhaust come out the back, but be nearly hidden, perhaps just seeing the tips below the rear bumper.

Do these mufflers have any drone?
How do they compare to the Borla S-Type?
Are you able to purchase this system, if it could work with our 1st gen set-up, without the mufflers that come with it?

Two pics included which are from when we originally purchased the truck in October.

Appreciate any input you all might have!
Ryan D.
Orlando, FL

Nice truck. I can't offer you a direct answer to your question as I've not evaluated this particular exhaust system installed on a SB Chevy powered C10 at this point in time. I can however say that I personally use the similar Hooker Blackheart 1973-87 C10 exhaust system on my SB powered 1979 Chevy truck and get zero drone from it. I don't know anything about the Borla mufflers you mentioned, so I can't make a comparative assessment of them compared to the mufflers used in the Hooker Blackheart system. The systems are only sold complete with mufflers.

[toddoky]

The truck that was used to develop the parts from the Hooker Blackheart swap system is being assembled as a project vehicle and I thought some of you might be interested in seeing how it comes together. Here's a few shots I took today.

[Trucknut57]

Toddoky,

Can you give me a few details on which engine, accessory setup, headers you guys used for the test mule?

Or did I miss it somewhere in this thread?

Thanks.

[toddoky]

Originally Posted by Trucknut57

Toddoky,

Can you give me a few details on which engine, accessory setup, headers you guys used for the test mule?

Or did I miss it somewhere in this thread?

Thanks.

The development process is carried out using non-specific LS and LT mock-up engines that I’ve assembled for the purpose. They are used for the foundation from which to cycle through all the transmissions that have been chosen to be accommodated in the swap system and that is followed up by the fitment validation of the accessory drive systems (stock and Holley).
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[toddoky]

Originally Posted by Trucknut57

Toddoky,

Can you give me a few details on which engine, accessory setup, headers you guys used for the test mule?

Or did I miss it somewhere in this thread?

Thanks.

The development process is carried out using non-specific LS and LT mock-up engines that I’ve assembled for the purpose. They are used for the foundation from which to cycle through all the transmissions that have been chosen to be accommodated in the swap system and that is followed up by the fitment validation of the accessory drive systems (stock and Holley).
Posted via Mobile Device

[derotoreut]

Are you able to explain to me why this system, or others might not require the use of flexible exhaust joints (i.e. short braided stainless couplings) at or near the headers? Systems with "X" or "H" pipes seem awfully rigid to me. It appears that they might benefit from using some type of flexible couplings. Curious to know. Thanks.

[toddoky]

Originally Posted by derotoreut

Are you able to explain to me why this system, or others might not require the use of flexible exhaust joints (i.e. short braided stainless couplings) at or near the headers? Systems with "X" or "H" pipes seem awfully rigid to me. It appears that they might benefit from using some type of flexible couplings. Curious to know. Thanks.

Exhaust bellows are typical only used on hot-end exhaust assemblies where necessary to allow for material expansion between two rigid components located in close proximity to each other (i.e. the exhaust manifold to turbo connections on the back of the Duramax Diesel engines), or to provide a means to deal with the slight mis-alignment of components that is expected to exceed a specific production tolerance. Exhaust system H and Y pipes themselves don't present either of these issues (especially ones used in systems without catalytic converters) and therefore don't require the use of bellows, as long as the fixtures for the components are designed correctly and their manufacturing is carried out as intended.

[derotoreut]

Originally Posted by toddoky

Exhaust bellows are typical only used on hot-end exhaust assemblies where necessary to allow for material expansion between two rigid components located in close proximity to each other (i.e. the exhaust manifold to turbo connections on the back of the Duramax Diesel engines), or to provide a means to deal with the slight mis-alignment of components that is expected to exceed a specific production tolerance. Exhaust system H and Y pipes themselves don't present either of these issues (especially ones used in systems without catalytic converters) and therefore don't require the use of bellows, as long as the fixtures for the components are designed correctly and their manufacturing is carried out as intended.

So I'm assuming any flex generated in the system by engine torque is insignificant in this application. And without catalytic converters there is no concern of excessive heat that may cause thermal expansion issues. Thank you for taking the time to explain this.

[toddoky]

Originally Posted by derotoreut

So I'm assuming any flex generated in the system by engine torque is insignificant in this application. And without catalytic converters there is no concern of excessive heat that may cause thermal expansion issues. Thank you for taking the time to explain this.

Yes, your assumption would be correct. You can use exhaust systems designs of OE manufacturers as an example as to whether bellows are required from an engineering standpoint. You will be hard pressed to find one used in any OE exhaust system other than at a critical or highly constrained hot-end component connection. They don't spend a nickle or dime they don't have to.

[clay68c10]

Originally Posted by 72MARIO

Ahhh I hope my ctsv pan will clear the front crossmember and center link. Should have my parts next week.

Did your V pan end up clearing? I’m thinking of going this route.

[toddoky]

For those following this thread, the Hooker Blackheart long-tube LS swap headers shown above in post #102 have been released and are listed on the Holley website.

[PGSigns]

So how did the fit up go on the 64 you had in the lab in January? Have you been able to see what parts of the 67 to 72 stuff will cross over?
Jimmy

[toddoky]

Originally Posted by PGSigns

So how did the fit up go on the 64 you had in the lab in January? Have you been able to see what parts of the 67 to 72 stuff will cross over?
Jimmy

Yes, we worked through the validation and design process on the 63-66 C10 application and I can report that there will be specific engine mounting brackets and headers that will be released for them that will be based on the use of the same motor mounts we used for the 67-72 C10 shown in this thread. The transmission crossmember will be shared between the application as will the exhaust systems after a small revision is made to the rear tailpipe hanger brackets.

[PGSigns]

Is there a time frame for this? Getting close to time to start on the 65.
Jimmy

[toddoky]

Originally Posted by PGSigns

Is there a time frame for this? Getting close to time to start on the 65.
Jimmy

Hello Jimmy. If you are in immediate need of parts, those specific Hooker Blackheart parts won’t be helpful to you. They have made it past the prototyping stage, but all of the pre-production tooling, documentation and first production run requirements that are still in-process will put their availability out somewhere around 4 months from now.

[70inbville]

Hello, do you make a downpipe to go from Hooker ls cast manifolds to the blackheart exhaust system? I have been all over the website and summit but can't find one. found several for cars but not 70 c10. Also how is the clearance for shifter linkage with the headers. the pics above don't show a steering column and linkage. thanks

[toddoky]

Originally Posted by 70inbville

Hello, do you make a downpipe to go from Hooker ls cast manifolds to the blackheart exhaust system? I have been all over the website and summit but can't find one. found several for cars but not 70 c10. Also how is the clearance for shifter linkage with the headers. the pics above don't show a steering column and linkage. thanks

The specific manifold adapter pipe kit you are interested in was prototyped as part of the development effort for this application and are on the production schedule to be ran, which will trigger a product release and website listing to be posted when that happens. I don’t expect all of that to happen until sometime near the end of next month.

[70inbville]

Thank you for the reply and will be watching for the info to come out. on a side note has anyone used this exhaust system along with nolimit parts such as shock relocation kits and adjustable panhard rod system? looking at pics things might get tight. thanks for any input.

[toddoky]

From the photos I looked at of both of those No Limit parts during my development research I’d have to say that neither of them would be usable with the Hooker Blackheart exhaust systems due to them needing to occupy the same physical space as the exhaust system tubing in multiple areas. The driver side over-axle tube will only clear the stock panhard bar frame anchor bracket used on the 1965-up trucks.

[72MARIO]

Originally Posted by clay68c10

Did your V pan end up clearing? I’m thinking of going this route.

I just got the mounts installed. The CTSV pan does clear. The bottom of the pan is flush with the crossmember. The holley mounts dropped the engine just over 1" compared to my dirty ding sliders. The stock fan shroud fits with 1.5 removed from the circle. I am using the stock 6.0.cooling fan.

[toddoky]

Originally Posted by 72MARIO

I just got the mounts installed. The CTSV pan does clear. The bottom of the pan is flush with the crossmember. The holley mounts dropped the engine just over 1" compared to my dirty ding sliders. The stock fan shroud fits with 1.5 removed from the circle. I am using the stock 6.0.cooling fan.

That's some good comparative information that I'm sure others will find useful.

[toddoky]

While I'm checking in to this thread I thought I post some pics of the 1970 C10 development truck in its current state of assembly.

[clay68c10]

72MARIO; thanks for the update, I appreciate it.

Toddoky; that’s a good looking stepper, thanks for sharing. What size wheel/tire combo is it running?

[toddoky]

I'm not sure about the wheel/tire package sizes used as I had no involvement with the assembly of the truck. I will have to provide the info at a later time as the truck has left the engineering lab temporarily, so I don't have access to it to be able to gather that information off of it.

[toddoky]

The truck found its way back to the lab...the wheels are 18" x 8" on front and back and the tires are 225/60R on the front and 250/60R on the rears.