C10CJ: A Pro-touring '71 Stepside on a No Limit Pro-C10 Chassis

[crakarjax]

Originally Posted by 1971_c10

Hehe ... it's been a long time coming! Most guys start on a build then work as budget allows, taking many years to finish. I started on the budget and waited on the build and trying to do this thing in under 2 years.




Oh man, this is one of my "open item" yet to really define. I will probably get the truck running with the battery sitting in the stock location. However, I really desire to get it somewhere in the back on the passenger side. With a stepside bed, the common spot just behind the cab is out, and things are really tight back there otherwise. It's going to be a "decide as I go" once I get the bed on and start on the floor structure. I'm eyeballing right on top of the passenger rail between the bed mounts. The battery would most likely need to lay on its sie but that's not a problem for Optima batteries (which is what I run). The biggest question is how much space I wind up with once I get the floor installed. When I mocked up the raised floor on the factory frame I had about 10.5" to the bottom of the wood, so once I get a subfloor in it's probably like 9.5" (The No Limit chassis isn't any different height wise, in fact I may gain a little more front to back room as they don't kick up the rail as early as the factory chassis). The trick is what I decide to do with the cross members. That's where I may make a custom cross member with an integrated battery box. Who knows...

I've also toyed around with putting it in the cab behind the seat if there is enough room (I plan to mock this up in the coming weeks). No matter where I put the battery, I'll have a large junction over on the driver front side where I'll tie the alternator in and then also the relays for the fans and the power for the fuse box. So I'll at least have a monster cable running over there. I'll then obviously have a monster cable running from the battery to the starter. That's still all up for debate at the moment and one of the reasons I haven't patched the 2 feed through holes in the floor from the old gas tank. I'll still ground everything to the chassis.

Cable routing I'll just use some well insulated cable (pricey stuff) and some of the standard insulated cable hangers you get at the big box stores (that stuff works well). The battery cable would most likely run along the passenger rail with one of the fuel lines. Sounds crazy, but look at a newer car and where they run the battery lines and not much different, other than some of those battery cables are scary huge. So stay tuned on that one!

According to this guy,

I like to set up a car so that it has equal left weight front and rear; that is, the portion of the left side weight on the front wheels is the same as the portion on the rear wheels, by percentage. If the car has 52% front left weight, then it should have 52% rear left weight. Why? So there's no diagonal bias and no static twisting moment. It seems to keep the car more predictable.

Due to this I'm thinking I want to move my battery to the driver side rear... probably right behind the tire. I'm not sure if the same considerations are important for pro-touring, have you looked into this yet?

[1971_c10]

Hey man, I generally agree with what they guy wrote that you referenced. For those that want the synopsis, the guy is talking about the axle split, not to be confused with the weight split even though he refers to it as 52% weight on the front left. He really means 52% of the front axle's weight on the left side and 52% of the rear axle's weight on the left side.

His main point is that you want the cross weights to be the same. So FL/RR to FR/RL should be equal. Most scales these days will give you cross weights in addition to corner weights. This helps to keep the car balanced in both turning directions, so applicable for any handling situation, be it auto-cross, road coarse, mountain fun, etc. The left turn only boys bias this to help the car turn left only, in addition to some other tricks like wheel base (e.g. sprint cars, modifieds).

For the battery, it all depends. The battery is a fraction of your weight, well at least my weight. I'm a tad over 200 lbs. So if you treat the battery like ballast, then you could do some iterations on the scales to find the best place. Essentially, have a helper set the battery in various locations with you in the truck and see how things change. You may find the driver side rear is best, you may find right behind the driver best. Without scales to optimize, it's probably more personal preference. I'm not sure we'd see the benefit of the optimized location just because our trucks are over 3000 lb, some well over.

I have thought about behind the tire, either side. The catch there is you would want a pretty stout box to put the battery inside. That area will get beat to crap with pebbles from street driving. Maybe if it's a low milage/year truck you wouldn't need as much armor. But my goal is to make the truck so fun to drive I put more than the usually 2000 miles on it per year.

With a raised floor, you actually get quite a bit of room up near the front bed mounts between the floor and the top of the frame rail before it turns up for the axle notch. It's around 4 inches lower than the rear frame rail section behind the notch. With the simulated raised floor I did, there was around 11" vertical space in there. Enough to almost mount the battery "normal" versus on it's side. That's the custom cross-member with an integrated battery box I'm talking about. Tied in with the 2nd cross member from the front of the bed. That cross member is no longer much use to the bed mount since the floor is up 6", so there is opportunity there to optimize. My neighbor even joked about putting a live well box in that space if I did a full tilt floor.

[1971_c10]

Oh the ups and downs ...

This is definitely an up and a down. I got color on the firewall last night. I hadn't sprayed automotive paint in close to 20 years, let alone a metallic. But that's not the down. The paint came out gorgeous. The problem, some scratches are showing through (the down). I saw 3 scratched when I was spraying the color. I thought, I can live with those. They aren't too bad. I didn't notice all the other scratches until I'm into the clearcoat. So I just sprayed 2 coats of clear and wrapped up. Serves as a good preview of what it will look like at least. The scratches are only on the vertical surfaces too, and only in one direction even though I cross hatched 400 wet then 600 wet. These scratches almost look like 320 scratches. They are very hard to see in a photo, so not even going to try, but because of the metallic, they show right up in the sun.

So re-work it is. Bummer for sure, but it happens. Hopefully I can just stick to the vertical surfaces (sand down to the color, then wet sand the color with 600 until the scratches go away, spray more color then re-clear).

Here's some photos for fun though:

This is where it all started. To clean up this mess:


The after


Passenger side angle shot


Driver side angle shot


You can really see how wrinkly the firewall is from the factory and why many custom shops just chop the whole firewall off and start fresh. I wasn't about to go there.

[gringoloco]

Great work on the notch! So, you didn't get into the floor at all, just the rear wall and support?

[1971_c10]

Originally Posted by gringoloco

Great work on the notch! So, you didn't get into the floor at all, just the rear wall and support?

Thanks Chris!

So not needing to gut the floor is another advantage of No Limit. The way Rob designed the chassis he set it up so the engine mounts very similar to the stock height on the standard rail front. On some other aftermarket setups, they raise the engine up to 1.5" higher, which means the trans tailshaft needs to go up the same amount. Then those setups are designed to lay frame so the driveshaft winds up going up towards the rear axle. The No Limit frames aren't really designed to lay frame, so that's the other part of the equation. So yeah, I didn't need to cut into the floor at all. Rob tries to minimize the amount of body fab a guy needs to do in order to get the truck up and going again. In reality, I only needed to notch the cab and inner fenders and raise the bed floor since I have the raised rear rail. All the other fab work I did is because I changed a bunch of stuff.

[NewType72]

Killer attention to detail with the notch on the back of the cab, makes it look factory with how you spliced it. Great stuff

[1971_c10]

Originally Posted by NewType72

Killer attention to detail with the notch on the back of the cab, makes it look factory with how you spliced it. Great stuff

Thanks Dylan! I really appreciate the feedback - keeps me motivated.

[noteron]

Your build is coming along beautifully. I feel you about being a bit OCD with the details. Its always the little details that catch my eye when i look at a hot rod. Im really diggin your level of detail.Thank you for sharing your build with us. It is truely inspiring.

[1971_c10]

Originally Posted by noteron

Your build is coming along beautifully. I feel you about being a bit OCD with the details. Its always the little details that catch my eye when i look at a hot rod. Im really diggin your level of detail.Thank you for sharing your build with us. It is truely inspiring.

Thanks man! Oh my OCD was in full swing last week with wiring ...

The existing "universal" wiring harness. My OCD did not like where the trunks were for various wires and sensors.


So I blew the harness apart. Not to fear, those 80+ wires don't scare me!


Ah, much better. Ready for a customized routing and integration.

[1971_c10]

Wow, doesn't feel like 2 weeks since I posted any updates. Time flies ...

Been working on a bunch of odds and ends.

Did some brake rotor safety wire work. In my line of work we like to follow the "belt and suspenders" philosophy. So I did the same here. Safety wire is "not required" as the bolts are torqued and loaded with loctite. But, loctite and heat don't get along and rotors get hot. So safety wire is a simple precaution to ensure that the rotors do not come off the hats.

This is one of the rear rotors. It was a small PIA since the drum for the parking/emergency brake makes it so the bolt heads for the rotor are in a channel.


The front rotors went much faster.


I also started on some other plumbing after finishing up the fuel lines. I swapped out the flow control valve in my power steering pump for a unit setup for Ford racks, then installed the power steering lines. Also started on the trans cooler lines. I mocked in the A/C lines from the dryer and found that where I had my 2nd trans cooler (air cooler) was going to clash with the A/C lines, so that needs to move. I'm also contemplating a larger cooler as on hot days with a 3200 rpm stall the trans temps get a little warm, even with the fluid running through the cooler in the radiator and then through an air cooler with an insane 8" Spal fan.

But, all that work was distracting me from getting the cab done. So the chassis got moved into my "attached detached single garage" so I could focus on the cab. And yes that is a SBC in the far back corner.

[1971_c10]

Since the only part of the truck in my shop was the cab, I got to work. I needed to do something with a large hole I had cut when I was young and dumb and didn't have the proper tools. I had swapped in the 700R4 with my SBC. With the SBC in the 6 cylinder mounts, the added depth of the bellhousing on the 700R4 was hitting the pinch weld between the firewall and floor. Instead of trying to notch the pinch weld I cut out a chunk of the floor. It was hideous. I used a hole saw and a hack saw and never trimmed out the hole. So the hole was rough. I then riveted on some aluminum. That worked but I wanted to repair that area. I had tossed around going to a high hump, but I actually like the low hump and will keep it until some future mod requires it to go.

Here's what the hole looked like after I trimmed it up a bit. I did some more trimming after this shot for fit on the patch panels, but the hole size didn't really change. And for the purists, the doors and radio were already cut when I got the truck. The holes are ugly, and I'll probably clean those up some when I get to the interior.


I then went about the patch in 2 steps. First I patched the floor. It's tacked in place here. Then I went about the firewall section. The flat plate is where I started.


Then me and the hand hammers went to town. No english wheel, no shrinker, no pullmax. All hand hammered.


Section 2 welded in place. I had already started sanding the welds down, but still have some work left to do.


Shot from under the cab. Again, started sanding down the welds (full penetration confirmed!) and I'll use a little filler to smooth things out.


I also patched up the remaining holes I planned to fill, making the cab fab work I had planned DONE! On to bodywork!

I've been since working on some bodywork on the back of the cab. Then I'll move to body work on the front.

[NewType72]

When in doubt make it yourself!! Haha great work my friend

[1971_c10]

Originally Posted by NewType72

When in doubt make it yourself!! Haha great work my friend

You know it! and Thanks man!

[gringoloco]

What a pain, but worth it in the end

[kehstr]

That trans hump patch turned out amazing! Actually kind of jealous LOL

[ripdog28]

Amazing build

[1971_c10]

Originally Posted by kehstr

That trans hump patch turned out amazing! Actually kind of jealous LOL

Originally Posted by ripdog28

Amazing build

Thanks guys!

I've been a bit disconnected lately. I spent 4 days cleaning up my shop from an unfortunate mess made by some help. It bordered on disaster. I have a clean area and the help forgot to make sure the dust shield was closed, so my clean area was full of debris. That's where I mix filler and paint. Grrr. So looking to build a bit better dust shield this weekend.

I've been doing bits of bodywork as well. I may try to get some primer sprayed this weekend, but the temps here in CO took a plunge and I prefer to paint with the metal at least 70-75 F. So right now the cab is sitting around 76 F but the lows are in the low 50s and it was 46 this morning. Fortunately my shop is insulated so the temps don't drop too much. I do have a heater, but it's a kerosene heater so it's put away and I won't use it when I'm painting since the crap from the heater increases your chances for fish eyes or other defects. Hopefully some more pics soon.

[1971_c10]

So it begins ... the path to painting that is.

I finally got to a point to lay down some paint. Started with the bottom of the cab. I went simple flat black from a spray can. Sounds cheap, but it's this VHT Epoxy Primer/Paint that seems to work pretty well so far. I'll see how it holds up under there as the bottom of the cab takes a beating. So this will be a good test for the paint. I just didn't feel like dropping some $500 on lizard skin at the moment knowing I'll probably repaint the truck in a few year.

Here's a before shot. Wasn't cleaned to bare metal, but good enough to paint.


The final product after 2 generous coats.

[1971_c10]

And then it was on to the firewall. After nit picking with the glaze, I said screw it, just shoot it and let the primer tell me where to fix. So I did. Primed the firewall tonight. Also primed the area for the driveshaft notch and a cab corner that needed some serious rework from a previous owner botch job I was supposed to fix some 18 years ago and never did, until now (long story).

Before shot of the firewall


After shot of the firewall. Yep. My plan worked. I know where to focus on with some more glaze during the blocking phase. Then probably another round of primer.


The two spots on the back of the cab before


and after


Oh ... and that's roofing felt on the floor. It's like $16 per roll at Home Depot. I used 2 rolls and covered my entire floor where I was painting (essentially a 2 car garage in size). I even wetted the felt down to help catch the overspray. It seemed to work pretty well. I rolled half of it and my floor underneath looked untouched from the nasty catalyzed high build surfacer/primer. Not sure where I got this tip but figure I'd pass it along.

[1971_c10]

Hey guys, after chatting with one of the other board members tonight (via that old school telephone thingy) and discussing raised bed floors on step sides, I realized I had some shots simulating a raised floor I did from way back when, so I figure I'd post them to give some insight what a raised floor might look like.

Here is the floor at the stock level. I hadn't taken all the floor bolts out yet so the strips are still there.


Here is the floor raised about 6". It was a simple raise. I just set some 2x4s on the angle strips and then took the 2 "loose" cross members and used those to support the floor. Also note, that since I pulled the edge pieces from the floor, I put a small section of 3/4" wood I had in both front corners where the edge board would normally provide support between the angle strip and the cross member that ties in with the steps. This small piece of wood (or something similar) with need to go there even when the floor is permanently raised to provide proper support for the front cross member that mounts the bed to the frame. Sorry for the not so quite same camera angle and yes, I should have placed the bed strips in there in hind sight.

[gringoloco]

Nice work. Wish I'd been as careful with painting/welding when I was younger as I am now...

[1971_c10]

Originally Posted by gringoloco

Nice work. Wish I'd been as careful with painting/welding when I was younger as I am now...

Thanks man! I'm not so young myself, I just look young I've had plenty of young and dumb learning to go off.

[gringoloco]

Looks good from here!

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by gringoloco

Looks good from here!

Agreed. Maybe it's not a Ridler contender.... but it doesn't need to be when the smiles per gallon accumulate.

[crakarjax]

I like the color, but now that you mention the wrinkles I might plan on doing a matte or satin black on the firewall to conceal some of those imperfections.