64' K10 Project Long Bed

[Captainfab]

Nice TIG machine Les

One thing about TIG welding old rusty and dirty parts is that even though you blast the surface, the weld puddle will pull contaminates from the backside, into the weld.

What size tungsten and filler rod are you using?

[RANDY COX]

Hey I like your assortment of tools, Now if you can Imagine those tools just laying in the floor board amongst other things there's no room left and makes it hard to find what your looking for.. I have a hard case that my body tools came in.. but anywho looking good on your welding up the cracks. every time I think I'm getting ahead I see 5 more things that need to be taken care of.. I'm getting close to driving mine on the road in case I need it for winter... I used to have several 4x4's now I'm down to just this truck and may need it.

[aotte1]

John,

"One thing about TIG welding old rusty and dirty parts is that even though you blast the surface, the weld puddle will pull contaminates from the backside, into the weld."

How much can all this contamination effect the weld strength for sheet metal, would like to TIG if not a problem? Know condition of metal will effect contamination. These area are likely the worst metal to be fixed.

"What size tungsten and filler rod are you using?"
Will get this info to you tomorrow.

Les

[aotte1]

Randy,

Hope you get things drivable soon, what is your time schedule for having it drivable. I thought real winter starts about early January in VA, when I lived their. Pretty much the same for central KY. I am having fun welding, thanks for complements.

Just getting started on bed sheet metal, and know as you progress with finishing it, you find more things to finish. E.g. Thinking " will it ever be ready to paint".

Les

[Captainfab]

Weld contamination in a sheetmetal weld is not as critical as in structural welding, but if severe enough can create a weld that will fail. You can check for porosity by grinding/sanding the weld down and see how it looks. The weld contamination can sometimes be minimized by using a smaller tungsten and filler rod and also changing the arc frequency and/or the pulse if the machine has those capabilities.

[aotte1]

John,

Photo of earlier wheel well lip weld ground some, with a large stone. Will grind more with smaller stone later. What do you think about condition. Second photo is it polished a little more.

FYI- two photos below are reversed.

"What size tungsten and filler rod are you using?"
Tungsten is -0.092 red head;
Filler Rod is - 0.063 for these welds, also have 0.035, and 0.093

Unit does not have controls for phasing, etc., this unit has some electronic controls that effect output based on the amperage setting you choose. Probably have not been using it correctly as I leave it on high amperage and just used foot control. Today started setting amperage for thickness of metal welding, your comment got me to thinking ( remembering what manual said).


Les

[aotte1]

Started practicing on welding up holes with the TIG, did 5 practice holes, before starting on bed sides ( this hole is on the inside lip of the bed top rail). Used the pure copper strip to block the bottom of the hole to be filled ( needs to be 1/8 inch thick). Clamped in place. Then slowly did spot welds around the outside of the hole, skipping space between welds, then another spot weld. Backed off amperage some ( not all the way) between welds, to let it cool then another spot weld. Slowly filled the hole. Ground the welded up hole some, needs more in last two photos. The hole area is recessed some so over welded the area a little, will add some body filler later.

Les

[aotte1]

Got one of the bed side panels, welds all done today. Getting easier as doing more of them. Photo of last one on this panel.

[aotte1]

Dana 44 Front Axle Installed

Today removed the '83 10 bolt used for setting up the power steering gear box adapter plate, and installed the '78 Dana 44 front axle. ( used the 10 bolt as did not have the Dana 44 yet) Using the Dana 44 versus the 10 bolt as it looks more correct. Photos are of it installed, and it bolted right in. It was the same for both the '78 Dana 44 and 83' 10 bolt, bolted right in. Exactly as the "Captain" said they would.

Next step on this front axle swap is to add brackets on the cross member for the sway bar. Not sure yet how best to do this. Make all new brackets or modify the brackets on the '78 cross member to fit the '64 cross member. Do not want to replace the '64 cross member with the '78 one. Will remove brackets from '78 soon, and see how close they fit.

[aotte1]

Photos of the sway bar with out the front brackets, along with the '78 cross member and brackets. The 78 cross member is photo in upside down to show sway bar brackets.

[aotte1]

Additional Photos of power steering bracket installed. Again once I remove everything for cleaning and painting will provide measurements to reference points on frame. Will finish welding it to frame later. A more detailed discussion of gear box alignment is above.

[Captainfab]

The .092 tungsten should be fine and the .063 filler rod can work. You might try the .035 filler and see how you like it. I do prefer a smaller filler rod on sheetmetal such as auto body sheetmetal.

[RANDY COX]

Les I see your moving right along, I like your garage BTW looks like plenty of room. I need to go back and add my front sway bar my frame is a 70 frame and someone added it to mine also they used the front factory brackets from a later frame and used some steel plate that bolted to the bracket then the sway bar mounted to the flat plate not sure why it didn't line up and mount directly but it was on there like that when I got it...Not even really sure that I'll even need it. with added front springs in the front I don't think it's gonna give or sway too much...

[aotte1]

John,

Thanks for sharing your knowledge on TIG welding. I am totally new to this, however, find it very satisfying. Taking my time. Now with a few hours of welding on sheetmetal, can see why the .035 filler rod has advantages, much less filler rod weld build-up and less heat needed. I will order some from local welding store, they do not stock it. I got a few pieces from Steve my welder friend/professional.

One other question, from my reading here, have the impression that the K10 4x4s from 1963 to '87 pretty much have the same front suspension geometry in reference to the frame. Do you agree. Question is asked, as I plan to locate 1978 front sway bar in same location to '64 frame, as it was in '78.

Les

[aotte1]

Randy,

No expert on adding factory front sway bar/axle from K10 truck, subs from the 70s and 80s. Several builds here show the front cross member from 4x4 truck that came with sway bar, being a pretty much, bolt in for 67 to 72 trucks. ( from what I have read here)

Are '73 to 87 4x4s pretty common in yards near you, they are here, $ 125 gets the whole axle assembly/suspension/steering set-up. Wish we were closer, have a whole 83' set-up, used to plan 64', it has 3.42 gears. Would think adding the newer cross member would be easy way to go, along with assuring correct geometry.

Les

[aotte1]

Some planning photos for mounting 1978 front sway bar, forward brackets.

The front cross member on '64 and newer 70s and 80s are designed quite a bit different. '64 pretty much sits in the frame vertical and 70s/80s sits at an angle and is thicker steel ( note: they also have longer front springs). Photos 2 and 3 below show the vertical cross member. Photo 5 shows the '78 cross member with an angle to it.

Photo 1 - of brackets removed from 1978 cross member.

Photo 2 - of area on frame and cross member where bracket would be mounted.

Photo 3 - similar to photo 2

Photo 4 - shows general area where brackets would be mounted, they will need to be modified so that they will slide into the frame. Using band saw to make slots, for test fitting.

Photo 5 - shows the 1978 cross member with forward brackets riveted on, sitting on top of the '64 frame, in front of cross member. As installed it would be tilted forward some at the top.

[aotte1]

Next step is adding the factory sway bar as part of the 1978 Dana 44 front axle swap into the 1964 K10. Looking at how to attach the front of the bar to the existing cross member, using the brackets from the '78 K10. ( do not want to change out the cross member) Next I detached the 1978 front sway bar brackets from that cross member. Then held them on the 1964 frame cross member, and can see how they could be made to fit. Can see how they may fit with modification and addition of small brace.

Also, need to determine what distance to position the bar from the frame for proper operation while driving. My first measurement is the distance from bottom of top frame rail to bracket bottom that attaches the front of the bar to the frame.

This measurement on the '78 frame is 6 inches.

Thinking a lot of the front end geometry is similar on '63 to '87 truck. ( need to confirm this) Therefor plan to use the 6" measurement to locate the height of where the brackets is attached on the 64 frame cross member.

The photo shows the 6 inches measurement on the '64 frame with the '78 front cross member.

With the position of bar, can then work backwards as to where the brackets need to be attached on the cross member.

Les

[aotte1]

Brackets referenced in post 117 above.

[aotte1]

New bushing that is used to mounting the bar to the frame cross member. They are Moog. Part number K6476, it is not the Moog listed replacement part. Moog lists a combo bushing/bracket as a replacement part, it looks functional, and- generic. Bushing locates the bar in slightly different position.

Part number K6476 is Moog listed correct for 1968 to 1990 3/4 and 1 ton 2 WD, with this size bar. Will need to dye it black. IMO this bushing looks close to original and locates the bar correctly.

[aotte1]

Front Frame Cross Member, Sway Bar Bracket Fitting - Drivers Side

Working on fitting the sway bar (SB) front brackets from the 1978 K10 to the '64 frame cross member. This is the bracket the bushings for the front of SB attach to. Modified the drivers side bracket today and it is in place where it will attached to the frame. Will drill two holes in the bottom frame rail for bolts ( In the '78 frame it had rivets) and make a small brace for the other side of the bracket to the frame cross member. Will make it look original by using angle metal ( will try to use original material to make brace). It is bolted in place now, to position SB for fitting pass side bracket. Photos of it are below. Will post more detailed photos of bracket modification with measurements once removed. Working on fitting pass bracket, it will need more modifications.

Note: These brackets are not mirror images of each other, and the frame rails are different side to side.

Photo 1).shows the '78 frame cross member SB brackets, with modifications started;

Photo 2). shows the drives side bracket modified and fitted;

Photo 3). shows drivers side bracket from the bottom with the SB bolted to it.

Photo 4). shows a close-up view, where the new angle brace will be bolted, cross member to bracket; and

Photo 5.) shows the bushing that bolts the SB to the bracket.

[aotte1]

Worked on the passenger side bracket today. It needed more trimming then the drivers side to make it fit the frame cross member. Also, installed the new bushings from Moog. Next will make new connector for the inside of brackets to frame cross member. Photos below. Again will post more detailed photos once brackets are removed.

Will consider making the new connector a part of the '78 bracket, weld it to it and grind to look original.

Bottom photo is of drivers side bracket with material plan to use to add connector.

[RANDY COX]

making progress..

[aotte1]

Randy,

Thanks for the complement. My friend John is helping me make a lot of progress.

Les

[aotte1]

Started making the two straps to complete the bracket for adding sway bar from '78.

Cut them 5 inches long from 1" x 1/4" stock. Drilled a 3/8 hole that allows it to be bolted to the '78 bracket. That is all doing for now, will bend them to fit to the cross member later, once engine is removed and can heat to make bend easily.
Then will weld bar to bracket and finish to look part of bracket. Photos of bars to be finished below.

[aotte1]

Cab Roll Around Stand

Below are photos of the roll around cab stand. Made it simple, with available materials to just carry the cab, along with possible transport/use for painting. Will provide dimensions once I know it all works. Looked at other designs here on the board and came up with this one.