84 GMC C2500, V12 powered

[cayoterun]

I'll be doing some looking and measureing when I go to the shop this morning. I've been trying to keep the motor as low as possible, so I could put a hood on it. If we did move the radiator to the back, it would sure give more room for any size we need to cool it. That's one thing giving us guys trouble is getting enough cooling capacity on those things.
I think I found one thing that was giving me trouble. I was trying to reuse as much stock dash, firewall, wire harness, etc, as I could. Last night I decided to strip everything off the firewall and start from scratch. Maybe having a clean slate to work from will make it easier. I don't plan to have any accessories like ac, or heater. Keep it as bare bones as possible. Same with wiring.
The van steering column is offset to the left about 2 1/2", so may try to change the mount location. If I can gain that much space away from the doghouse would help alot.
That might mean moving the master cylinder and booster left also. It may mean cutting all the old firewall out too, and putting a new flat one in. It would probably make a cleaner look, and not be as butchered looking from the front side.
Thanks for any new ideas, I am getting think blind and needing you guys to shake me out of my "think box". We're going downstate this weekend and play "travel trailer trash" for a few days. Maybe some mind clutter will clear.
Cayoterun

[dammitmitchell]

you gonna run this one or cruise it like the last one?
subscribed.. i love your interesting builds

[dammitmitchell]

you sir are a beast

[bluex]

As much as I liked you doing this with a square, that truck is gonna be 100x cooler now....

I dont know if you thought of it, but run the radiator in the bed and use muffler piping to run it to the engine and back. Thats how they do those off road buggies all the time. That is if your not planning on using the bed for alot of hauling

[cayoterun]

Originally Posted by bluex

As much as I liked you doing this with a square, that truck is gonna be 100x cooler now....

I dont know if you thought of it, but run the radiator in the bed and use muffler piping to run it to the engine and back. Thats how they do those off road buggies all the time. That is if your not planning on using the bed for alot of hauling

Where would I look to see how others have mounted their radiator on/in the bed? I would like to hide it as much as possible, but it takes a huge radiator to cool these old motors. I'm open to any possibility. I'll have the 40+ gallon propane tank mounted back there too. I'd use a steel pickup bed if I could find one that old to match or build a steel flat bed.

The truck won't be hauling anything. These projects are a passtime for an old retired guy. It has a stout receiver hitch now that a trailer could be pulled with it for show and tell, if it's ever roadworthy.

I don't intend to have a hood. Been thinking I could have a canvas cover made to snap on like an old convertible top cover for protection when parked or if caught in a rain shower.
Thanks,
Cayoterun

[cayoterun]

Need help from you artistic guys. I can mount the radiator thru the bed floor down between frame rails behind the rear axle. Some of the radiator could be above bed floor if we needed. Have the propane tank behind cab. I need ideas of how we could camoflauge it with bed sides so it wouldn't look so bad. It would need a heavy protective screen in front of the radiator below the bed to keep rocks from ruining it. Something like bed with stake sides, or pickup bed with tool boxes down the sides, maybe? Open to all ideas. The bed floor and back would need lots of room for air circulation. In that location, it would have plenty of room for big radiator and fans.
I'll post a full side overall view later. Plenty of time to think on it before we get that far.

[cayoterun]

Looks like two options on radiator locations.
1: Behind cab and drop down thru floor, but would have to be cautious to stay clear of driveshaft travel. May also restrict airflow.
2: Behind rear axle, less interference, and more space for air circulation, and larger radiator, but not too low to drag on curbs.
Bed Floor: Use expanded metal for most of it.
Bed sides: More expanded metal/w fake doors like they use to haul hunting dogs. Would try to not go higher than rear glass and would have to check with lp inspectors for approval.

Front clip: Have front support located and brackets built. Kept trying to center fenders over the wheels, but when looked at stock truck pics., they were off set some originally, did the same thing here. The wheels are wider than on the '46, so front wheels extend past the fenders about 2" on each side. Will leave it that way, see no easy solution to that, but many trucks with oversize tires are run that way.

Our second daughter had a bump in the road this morning. A local cafe she is part owner here burned to the ground. Haven't heard any details yet.
Enough brainstorming for today.
Cayoterun

[Rap'em Pappy]

That looooks more eye catching. I like Bluex's idea with pipes to the
rear radiator. I am sure there has to be some well pipes around there.Here is one of my crazy thoughts for the rear box with the radiator by the tail gate.
Then lover or screen the inside of the box or use a spoiler.
How about using the frt water tank of a motor for a surge tank in the frt of the truck?

[thirdstreettito]

Cool cayote! Keep up the good work fella!

[bluex]

Mock up looks great.


I did a Google search for rear mounted radiator and found a post on the HAMB where a guy put his in the tailgate. There's another idea for you.

I can't figure out how to copy and paste the link from my phone though.....

As for the bed, since those engines have a long ag history I think a flat bed with wood sides would fit the theme and the era of the cab your using. Just my .02 though.....
Posted via Mobile Device

[cayoterun]

Originally Posted by bluex

Mock up looks great.


I did a Google search for rear mounted radiator and found a post on the HAMB where a guy put his in the tailgate. There's another idea for you.

I can't figure out how to copy and paste the link from my phone though.....

As for the bed, since those engines have a long ag history I think a flat bed with wood sides would fit the theme and the era of the cab your using. Just my .02 though.....
Posted via Mobile Device

Your and the others .02 is always appreciated. There have been many ideas of you guys or combined ideas used in these off-the-wall brainstorms. Your right about the ag theme fitting our country, which might look out of place in the more urban populated areas. Between you and pappy's last post combined hit the nail on the head of what I was trying to picture in my head.
When I was a kid and the pastures hadn't been fenced into smaller ones, a lot of guys would hunt coyotes with greyhounds. Run up close enough to the coyote so the dogs could see them, cram on the brakes, drop the dogs and watch the race. They would have old pickups rigged up very similar as where this is going. For a kid, it sure seemed like there were some wild rides take place out thru those pastures.
Pappy, I ain't got guts enough to use my wife's riding lawn mower gas tank for a surge tank like another feller I know, but the one off the motor stand looks like it might work. (grin)
Thanks,
Cayoterun

[scotto0609]

When I first saw the new donor I thoght rear mount with a extended bed. Apparently I am too late!!

[cayoterun]

Originally Posted by scotto0609

When I first saw the new donor I thoght rear mount with a extended bed. Apparently I am too late!!

There will be plenty more questions on other stuff, so keep thinkin'.
Cayoterun

[locomotive breath]

Looking good. I think the older sheet metal suits the big V12 better myself. A good sized radiator tilted forward in the bed at a 45 degree or so angle with a big electric fan might do the job. You could always have a smaller radiator up front for a second pass before it goes back into the engine.

[Dieselwrencher]

That sounds pretty cool. If you do get to do it, enjoy it!

[dammitmitchell]

quick question.
why dont you extend the rear frame and keep the stock length bed.
place the radiator infront of the rear diff, behind the cab. in the floor with an expanded metal top and electric fan assy mounted on it?

[cayoterun]

Food for thought:
Let's kick it around. Here's some questions that come to my mind as I read this.
So far and I've been looking.
Finding a bed to match the 40-46s has been scarce. I know of a steel bed off a '46 1-ton, but think it's 9'. The fenders are different to accomodate dual wheels.

I don't think the '84 bed would look right, would it?

A wood/steel bed might be better, like in the photo chop. I like the height of the sides coming just below rear cab window. We could put a skirt on it like "Balaur" to give it a lower profile appearance.

I'd need to add at least 24" to frame. Would that make it too clumsy? One hazard I have to be careful about is oil pan clearance. 8" clearance have been the best I can do on both trucks. Longer wheel base means lower drop when front wheels go down in a low spot. "Balaur" has a 239" wheelbase and it is clumsy in close quarters. In real life it had an 11' flatbed for delivering lumber and sheetrock.

I see everything as how we done it 30yrs ago, so need you guys to come up with stuff different. Having said that, The propane tank I'll use is 16"Dia x 53"L. (50 gallon) We've always mounted them behind the cab. We are restricted by laws as where they're mounted. It will pass anywhere in the bed as long as it's not enclosed.
So how could we make a neat arrangment for tank and radiator back there, & still maintain air circulation?

Side note: Have the cab and front clip mounts built. So far, I like the way they are coming out. Been looking how the suspended brake pedal and master cylinder will mount. Looks like it will fit in pretty easy.
Looking at two options on steering column. Tilt column from '84, or use the old column from the '46. Use the clamp on turn signal switch to keep it with the cab consistant with '46 era. Both look fairly easy.

Plan to go play in "Balaur's" neighborhood for the weekend. Get to help start old cars, tractors, and maybe "Balaur".
Be back next week to pick you guys brains.

I'm liking working with this older sheetmetal better than the '62. Going open motor is sure making things simpler too.
Thanks everybody. Who knows where this will wind up.
Cayoterun

Reread last few posts: I repeat myself too much, but bear with me. Strokes ain't no fun, but life is still good.

[Pyrotechnic]

For the bed, I believe the stepside beds were the same from the 50's all the way till 1987. The only difference is the fenders on them and maybe the steps too...not sure on the steps. Since they were made so long that increases your chances of finding a good one, then you just have to find some year/style appropriate fenders to attach.

[cayoterun]

Originally Posted by Pyrotechnic

For the bed, I believe the stepside beds were the same from the 50's all the way till 1987. The only difference is the fenders on them and maybe the steps too...not sure on the steps. Since they were made so long that increases your chances of finding a good one, then you just have to find some year/style appropriate fenders to attach.

I'll start looking tomorrow. Would be great if that would work out. Thanks.

Posted a couple of pics of "Balaur" in the parade at Santa Fe trail days, Boise City, Ok. over on her build thread. Stuck a couple of batteries on, couple squirts of starting fluid, and she fired right up. Had lots of fun and good visiting over the weekend.
Cayoterun

[cayoterun]

Originally Posted by Pyrotechnic

For the bed, I believe the stepside beds were the same from the 50's all the way till 1987. The only difference is the fenders on them and maybe the steps too...not sure on the steps. Since they were made so long that increases your chances of finding a good one, then you just have to find some year/style appropriate fenders to attach.

I've been searching pics on e-bay and other places since I read your post. It looks? like the beds, except fenders, are close to the same up thru '53. I think in '54 or '55, GM flattened the top rails of the bed horizontal. '53 back still had the top rails (lips) sitting at about a 45 degree angle. I'm anxious to get out and measure some. I have 30" from rear of cab to center of axle to work with. I wouldn't mind building some diamond plate running boards, (steps) front to back when we get final lengths figured out. Would like to have matching rear fenders.
Thanks for the lead. I'd like to get a pickup bed on there that'd look half way decent.

Cayoterun

[Rap'em Pappy]

My work truck has a plywood liner and has taken loads well. I have used bedliner spray, por-14, and chassis coat. Brushed or sprayed
they all seem equally the same toughness. Bedliner had the gripping surface.
I used rustoleum on my 8' wood trailor, it wears off easy.

[Rap'em Pappy]

Cayoterun,
It is coming together just great. You have a winner.
Wait til you get that new radiator fitted in and fired it up. How
sweet!!
Pappy

[dammitmitchell]

the tilt isnt hard to do, there's alot of small parts. i would reccomend the steering wheel pulldown kit. makeds it a butt ton easier.
for the pivot pins (looks like brass pins on either side) i used large washers with i think a 8mm screw.. instead of shelling the 50 bucks for the specialty tool nobody rents..
they are pressed in pins.. so the screw will of course engage the oversized washers and pull it into the cavity.. that's about the only way to get them out.
this should be a similar write up to any GM steering column.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/322393...evrolet-camaro

[cayoterun]

Today, I may have escaped the space trap of the '84 cab. Just maybe, the '46 will be a much better route to go. At least it was one of those "aha" moments, that may work.


#1: Brake pedal and steering column roughed in from '84 donor.
#2: Master cylinder/booster, lower column in place, also from '84 donor.
#3: Good clearances for all so far. May have to drop lower column to pull valve cover, but simple. Shaft and brake lines still needs to be lengthened and connected. This lets all chassis stuff be stock '84 components.
#4: Under the sealed trash bags is rebuilt seat from springs out/w black covers.
Still have the accelerator pedal to mount, but it will be on the floor board part that's removed in pic.

Plan for the truck to be Appliance almond/w black fenders, running boards, and lots of other black trim inside and out.

Yep, plan to use Ace Rust Stop thru spray gun in large areas, rattle can in small ones.
When these trucks were new, the paint was enamel and never shiny very long and soon turned chalky, unless waxed real often. In our rural area, the dull look won't look near so out of place as in large towns.

Gonna' enjoy my temporary high this evening, but not be disappointed if my bubble is busted by a new problem tomorrow.

Cayoterun

[Palf70Step]

Nice. Looks like it all belongs there.