NV4500 swap is underway

[DirtyLarry]

Originally Posted by snj8198

Looks good Larry. You get package?

Yes, sir. It looks great. Thanks for that! Have a Merry Christmas!

[duallyjams]

First thing this is a great thread. You pushed me over the edge to get going on mine. So i want to back up a bit. On the nv4500 adapter to the np205 why did you chose not to upgrade the 27 spline in the np205 to a 32 spline also did you look at the adapter that north west fab makes ?

[DirtyLarry]

Originally Posted by duallyjams

First thing this is a great thread. You pushed me over the edge to get going on mine. So i want to back up a bit. On the nv4500 adapter to the np205 why did you chose not to upgrade the 27 spline in the np205 to a 32 spline also did you look at the adapter that north west fab makes ?

Thanks! Funny you should ask about the splines. I had originally planned on converting the original 10 spline 205 to 32 but a complete 27 spline 205 from a 1972 K20 TH350/205 popped up on Craigslist for $25! The goal was to get away from the old school manual trans 10 spline that are notoriously sloppy (and mine was very sloppy!). In order for me to convert my old 10 spline to 32 some machine work needs to be done to the tcase housing. For the price of the 27 spline 205 I don’t feel spending several hundred more dollars to buy a 32 spline gear then pay a machinest to rework my case only to get 5 additional splines was really worth it. Again, the main goal was to get away from the sloppy course 10 spline while doing the OD swap.

With this AA kit, it isn’t a true 32 spline anyway once you hack off the trail shaft of the NV4500. With this kit you cut off the 32 spline portion of the output shaft and use the big 31 spline cog that is just behind the 5th gearset. You almost have to go to AA’s website and download their install instructions to understand what I am talking about. The good thing about this AA kit is that it eliminates any future potential of the 5 year nut backing as the 31/27 spline coupler holds 5th gear in place where the entire contraption is held together by the tcase to transmission tailshaft housing union.

Sure it would be nice to have a 32 spline but I think the entire 32 spline fad is often overrated. Just like everybody tripping over themselves spending thousands of dollars on front Dana 60’s. Sure, I want one too but refuse to pay the price of admission when a built D44 driven by a skilled driver has worked fine for 15 years even with over 400HP under the hood. My truck see more true off-road action in the middle of nowhere CO mountains to the deserts of AZ and UT than most 4x4’s on this board that are packing D60s and 32 spline transmissions to tear up corn fields, power line roads or the local drunk fest mud drag. That said, I don’t foresee the lack of 5 splines being a huge deal for a real world off-road truck.

[duallyjams]

Thanks for the reply that helped a lot.
I just picked up a nv4500 and I already have a 27 spline np205.I also have a D60 but feel it's over kill and kinda wish I had a big hub D44.
Back in the day I had a 84 3/4 4x4 that I abused. Hurt the engine twice,three clutches one front axle u joint and the rear yoke on the rear. It had a sm465 with a np208 and never had one problem with the trans or transfer.I used to drag race on asphalt, pulled in the 6,500 sled class and 4 wheel in the local rock quarry.

[snj8198]

Put the eggnog down Larry and show us the goods.

[DirtyLarry]

Originally Posted by snj8198

Put the eggnog down Larry and show us the goods.

I hear that! I’ve been so busy being on vacation I haven’t had a chance to work on it since the 23rd. Didn’t get anything done Christmas Eve or Christmas day then went snow wheeling with buddies Sunday. Monday I went to Denver to visit a custom camper manufacturer (having a custom popup camper built for this truck. More coming on that soon. It will be similar to a Four Wheel Camper) and Tuesday had to pick the wife up from the airport.

Planning to finish up the crossmember fit and finish, fuel lines and harness routing and clipping then install the ORD shifter and front driveshaft tomorrow. Then hopefully finish up the floor board rust repair over the weekend to get it ready for Rhino lining. Still won’t see the seats for a few more weeks.

[jbclassix]

I was gonna head down to Pueblo west today to pick up a parts 205... aint happinen! You guys getting Snow? Hope he doesnt sell it before I get there!

[BIGCHEVYMAN]

dose that nv 4500 have the same bolt pattern on the bellhousing as the sm465? i am getting ready to do the same swap in my 89 crewcab and my truck has the slave cylinder on the drivers side. thanks

[DirtyLarry]

Originally Posted by jbclassix

I was gonna head down to Pueblo west today to pick up a parts 205... aint happinen! You guys getting Snow? Hope he doesnt sell it before I get there!

Ah, man…..we actually left PW to head to Colorado Springs at 2:30 this afternoon to pick up the wife’s car from the dealer. It is now 8:10 and we just got home! What a mind numbing trip! The roads were terrible until the Walmart in PW. After that everything is dry as a bone.

I have my old 465/205 on CL. Maybe it is me you are coming to see?

[DirtyLarry]

Originally Posted by BIGCHEVYMAN

dose that nv 4500 have the same bolt pattern on the bellhousing as the sm465? i am getting ready to do the same swap in my 89 crewcab and my truck has the slave cylinder on the drivers side. thanks

No sir

[jbclassix]

Originally Posted by DirtyLarry

Ah, man…..we actually left PW to head to Colorado Springs at 2:30 this afternoon to pick up the wife’s car from the dealer. It is now 8:10 and we just got home! What a mind numbing trip! The roads were terrible until the Walmart in PW. After that everything is dry as a bone.

I have my old 465/205 on CL. Maybe it is me you are coming to see?

no its this one

http://cosprings.craigslist.org/pts/2113990478.html

i saw yours (recognized it from one of your pics) I mya consider it if i cant get this one

[DirtyLarry]

Originally Posted by jbclassix

no its this one

http://cosprings.craigslist.org/pts/2113990478.html

i saw yours (recognized it from one of your pics) I mya consider it if i cant get this one

Ah, yeah….I remember seeing that one on CL for a while now. The broken input shaft and incorrect tcase model listed in the title are memorable. For $25, you can’t go wrong with that one if you are just looking for bits and pieces.

[DirtyLarry]

It was a productive couple days.

Shifter is in after spending practically a full day figuring it out, chasing bolts and making adjustments. Keep in mind, ORD doesn’t really have a NV4500/205 twin stick kit for AA pieces. They basically sent a modified 205 doubler 3 stick kit and tweaks had to be made from there. It seems to have worked out well. Can’t wait to drive it and see how well it really works. I love ORD pieces, they do a great job with everything they build!



Had to trim the floor slightly. Will weld up the little slits shortly.






Here is one of the spacers we used to drop the cross member in order to keep the same working angles as the SM465. The cross member stayed in the original location.


Most of the work under the truck is complete. Pretty much just have to connect the park brake cables and the underside will be done (need to get a new Left rear brake cable though).




Next up…….. Finish up the turtle shell work to accommodate the shifters and new bezels, finish up the rust repair, install the cluster and interior electrical connections for the dual battery isolator, fuel transfer pump, etc.

[MTCK]

Looks real good, Larry. I really like how that shifter setup turned out. Are the disc brakes on hold for the time being? Have you ever had trouble with the angle of your O2 sensor? Mine is about the same since I would have had to drop the exhaust to drill the hole for the bung...
Posted via Mobile Device

[duallyjams]

What type of support are you going to use for the np205.

[snj8198]

Originally Posted by duallyjams

What type of support are you going to use for the np205.

Yeah good question. Where on the tcase did you bolt the second the xmember to Larry? What did you take that xmember from? I was going to customize something but maybe your route would be easier.

[DirtyLarry]

The 205 is mounted just like it was before. No support other than bolted to the transmission adapter. The second cross member bolts to the frame behind the transfercase for the sole purpose of giving the skid plate something to mount to. The NV4500 swap did not change anything with cross member locations or the way the 205 was supported. That part is all the same.

[snj8198]

ok. your not using the tcase torque arm either?

[DirtyLarry]

Originally Posted by snj8198

ok. your not using the tcase torque arm either?

Do you see it in the pictures? Nope, never had one with the original TH350/203 or with the swapped in 465/205. My dad’s K20 (SM465/NP205) is all stock underneath and it doesn’t have one. The donor truck I got the 465/205 from back in 1998 didn’t have one either. I haven’t actually seen many with them other than newer trucks with 208 and 241’s.

Started laying out where the shifter bezels and boots will lie which lead to changing the rods below a bit.

[duallyjams]

With the second crossmember you could use or fab something like this http://www.tmrcustoms.com/store/inde...roducts_id=736

[duallyjams]

Originally Posted by snj8198

Yeah good question. Where on the tcase did you bolt the second the xmember to Larry? What did you take that xmember from? I was going to customize something but maybe your route would be easier.

I had a 69 4x4 with a rockwell t-case and it had a factory second x member and look just like Larry's.

[DirtyLarry]

I am not convinced adding a tcase support will gain anything but add torsional stress to the transmission tail housing when the engine is under load while the tcase is tied down. I suspect that is why GM quite using the tcase support on the passenger’s side on 1973 and later trucks with the aluminum bell housing where older trucks with cast iron bell housings used to bolt the frame.

Now, a rod from the tcase to a bell housing bolt I would do if I could find one. Again, I haven’t ever seen one on a 1973 or later truck with a 205. Later trucks with aluminum tcases….yes.

Here is my stock ’78 K20 wrecker that I inherited when my dad passed away this summer. It doesn’t even have holes drilled into the side of 205 for a side mount or a support rod.

[jltait]

Larry,
A little input for you. I had a 1985 (or maybe it was 86) k30 SRW. the drive-train was 6.2 diesel/th400/np205 slip yoke. I never thought there were any 205's put in anything but crew cabs till I had this truck. It was not purchased from a normal dealership but from a medium duty dealership c4500's and up. I did not buy it new but all the documentation was still in the truck when I purchased it used, and the dealership is still in business. It seems that if you ordered a PTO option the np205 t-case is the case that would be put int it. Np208 did not have a pto option. Anyways, this truck with the np205 had the rod similar to the np208 running from the t-case to the bellhousing like you described. I have also heard of this rod referred to on the coloradock5 sight as well, so I am sure they exist for the np205. I bet they are elusive as big foot though.
JLT
PS What a great build, I really enjoy this thread I will be doing a nv4500 on my r30 crew cab soon, thanks for the inspiration!!

[jltait]

Larry,
here is a link to a place that specializes in the sale of older classic trucks. The picture is of a 86k30 srw just similar to the one I had, if you can zoom it in you can see that it has a rod bolted on the t-case just as I described in my previous post.

http://www.rustfreeclassics.com/imag...olution%5D.jpg

[DirtyLarry]

Originally Posted by jltait

Larry,
A little input for you. I had a 1985 (or maybe it was 86) k30 SRW. the drive-train was 6.2 diesel/th400/np205 slip yoke. I never thought there were any 205's put in anything but crew cabs till I had this truck. It was not purchased from a normal dealership but from a medium duty dealership c4500's and up. I did not buy it new but all the documentation was still in the truck when I purchased it used, and the dealership is still in business. It seems that if you ordered a PTO option the np205 t-case is the case that would be put int it. Np208 did not have a pto option. Anyways, this truck with the np205 had the rod similar to the np208 running from the t-case to the bellhousing like you described. I have also heard of this rod referred to on the coloradock5 sight as well, so I am sure they exist for the np205. I bet they are elusive as big foot though.
JLT
PS What a great build, I really enjoy this thread I will be doing a nv4500 on my r30 crew cab soon, thanks for the inspiration!!

All K30’s came with 205’s (and Dana 60 front axles) regardless of engines so that isn’t that odd. The rod is a surprise though as I have not seen one on a 205. If I could find one I would use it…..that is if it would fit. Getting pretty tight under there. Seems these trucks have worked fine for over 30 years without a rod so I am sure they will continue on just fine.