1955 12 Valve NAPCO Clone

[Luther Grimace]

I have been weighing my options for the past couple of weeks and yesterday I pulled the trigger on a 98 long block. I am hoping I can sell the front timing case and recuperate some money. I am gonna swap my cam, timing case and VE pump onto it. I think I should come out pretty even by the time I'm done. From what I checked on just a head gasket replacement was going to $250-350 and that didn't even address my bad cylinder. My engine ran fine but the knock was annoyance. And if I try to sell it it would hold me back.
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[RockTonka]

Cool, you have a direction now, that's half the battle for me!

[1985-GMC]

Dieselwrencher will know for sure but I think the pistons in the 98 may have different bowls. The 1st gen inj have 145* spray patters and some 2nd gens do to but I think they also have 155*, and i'm assuming those would be in the later engines.

[Luther Grimace]

I am going to just use the long block as is so I will keep those injectors in there if my ve injector lines will connect to them?
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[1985-GMC]

They have different size threads, you could use the 2nd gen nozzles and first gen bodies but then you need the pop-off reset to ve pressures. Or I guess you could just put it together and run it with the spray pattern off a little. I would just get a p-pump. I'm sure Ryan will chime in soon but he hasn't been on in a few days so maybe he snowed in... or out.

[Luther Grimace]

Originally Posted by 1985-GMC

They have different size threads, you could use the 2nd gen nozzles and first gen bodies but then you need the pop-off reset to ve pressures. Or I guess you could just put it together and run it with the spray pattern off a little. I would just get a p-pump. I'm sure Ryan will chime in soon but he hasn't been on in a few days so maybe he snowed in... or out.

That stinks

I should have checked on that before I made my decision. I wonder if I would run into serious problems running VE injectors with the P pump pistons. I might check on putting the P pump tips on my VE bodies like you said.

[Luther Grimace]

I did some searching and I found out that this:

"The Cummins Non-intercooled engines (1989 through December 31, 1990) use a 9mm injector hole, with a 155 degree injector spray angle.
The piston bowls are shaped correspondingly, HOWEVER the (Lucas) POD injector (7mm hole) is the same spray pattern, as are the Marine 370 injectors (7mm hole).
Simply using the aformentioned shims will allow the use of 7mm injectors in the 9mm head.

Some people make a big deal out of the fact the the 9mm head has a definite cracking issue in the injector hole, and while they do tend to crack there and they do seep through the washers, they seldom ever do much more than seep a minute amount of compression.
To this point, personally, I have never seen them crack and have a coolant issue.

The spray angle on the '91.5-'93 INTERCOOLED injectors is 145 degrees.
The spray angle on the '94-'98 (pre 24 valve) injector is also 145 degrees.

The injector BODIES are different where the injector line fitting attaches to the body.
The '94-'98 line fitting is larger than the '89-'93 style.

The tips (sometimes called "nozzles") interchange between the bodies on all years, but the "pop pressures" (Initial line pressure required to move the pintle) differs between the 2 different pump styles (89-'93 VE vs. '94-'98 P-7100).

I (and others) consider the Non-Intercooled VE engine to be the "Hot Rod" engine of the VE line, as it has the largest stock injectors, flow wise, (4x.013) of all the 12 valve engines, as well as a bit more agressive cam profile.
As stock, the non-intercooled VE pump is usually very conservatively tuned, with much more capacity available in it's adjustments.

The above specs are to be credited to the GREAT FOLKS at 1stGen.org.

Mark."

So it looks like I have lucked out on this. I can just reuse my injectors since I have a 91.5 year model. Sheww! I just made it by the skin of my teeth. I would like to possibly upgrade injectors down the road but I don't have the cash flow to do that now unless I unload some parts. I will have to check on selling these P Pump injectors and front timing housing.

[1985-GMC]

That's good news, and makes a little more since than them changing spray patterns in the middle of the p-pump second gens. It just depends where you get your info because one place will say one thing and and another will say something completely different. Sorry if I had you worried there! LOL

[Luther Grimace]

Oh no your good! I need folks like you to make sure I don't do something stupid. I hadn't even thought about the issues like connections to my pump and pop off pressure. I called a diesel place here in Alabama and he said they could check the nozzles on the 98 injectors and see if they are any bigger for more power. Thinking about using the bodies of the first gen injectors with the internals of the 98 injector with the pop off pressure adjusted for a VE pump. I am gonna check with Dieselwrencher because i'm sure he has prolly come across this problem.

[Luther Grimace]

Here is a pic of that new long block. Lord willing it will be in good shape because this truck is turning into an albatross.



I thought you guys might get a kick out of this. I have been working on my long term project while waiting on fundings for the new to me long block.

[1985-GMC]

Now that is awesome!

[6BT 56]

So is the 66? or 67? going to have a 6.2 as well? Maby add a turbo to that one . lol

[Luther Grimace]

Haha no this one is strictly Big Block Chevy gas guzzling power! And it's a 67.
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[6BT 56]

Is that your Impala SS as well??

[Luther Grimace]

That's the old man's.

[Luther Grimace]

Pulled the engine out... AGAIN!

Hoping to get everything swapped over pretty quickly because I'm tired of pushing this truck around by myself. How do some of you move your projects around by yourself?

The plan for now is to use the VE cam (possibly lifters too don't know if it is worth the trouble). I'm contemplating skipping the tooth on the timing but i'm not sure if too advanced of timing didn't start my first problem.



Double trouble



Also I felt the inside of the #6 while I had it out. I don't think there is anyway I could have honed it and let it ride. It was pretty rough.

[Dieselwrencher]

If high timing was your issue, you would have more than one cylinder with a burnt piston or scoring. I'd skip a tooth and run the IP in the fully retarded position so you can access everything better. This will net about the same timing as the IP fully roatated (advanced) but leaves access for idle and ease of fuel screw adjusting.

[6BT 56]

Hi luther . nice to see some progress. I will ask abt the alt 1 wire setup. Here is how I move projects around by myself

[Dieselwrencher]

I usually push them as far as I can by my self and use my 95 F-350 to push them if I can get it close .

[1985-GMC]

I just use the backhoe or skidloader.

[Luther Grimace]

I'm gonna have to get some sorta front end loader. I do it about like dieselwrencher does. I just grab on to the tires lugs and roll as far as I can til I feel like busting a blood vessel. Then I nudge it in with my truck.
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[6BT 56]

The loader is nice I tell ya. But it is only here due to farm work. Kinda hard to account for the expence of tractors unless they have some sort of work to do . I always just pushed with another truck with a old tire inbetween before I bought the farm .

[Dieselwrencher]

i used to use our skid loader religiously, but it broke so I've been doing without since.

[6BT 56]

Hey luther.

how do I get the master cyl for the clutch off the firewall of the dodge???? I havent looked yet but it is my job 4 tomorrow to get it all out of the ram and fabbed up and into the 56.

[Luther Grimace]

Rotate it to the left a quarter turn and it'll pull right out. Make sure you disconnect the safety switch wiring and the linkage to the pedal. Also you might wanna keep the system attached to avoid having to bleed them.
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