Freshly rebuilt 350 burning oil and tappet noise.

[straitnate14]

It sounds like you have more money in this truck than you can count? You know half the fun is building the truck and fighting problems like this. If you pay people to do everything what do you really know about fixing and troubleshooting problems with your truck? I fought tuning my motor with my supercharger all summer long, had no idea what was what with timing and how to jet a carb, now it's like 5 min jets are changed, trucks running and I'm putting in more timing. I haven't been able to touch my truck in 3 months now and I would kill to rip blower, and heads off to find a problem, just me I guess.

[Sport/Truck]

Originally Posted by gavotter333

Not lojack, It relies on the police to bother to find it and by the time they have left the donut shop the truck will already be in bits. Its got realtime GPS. Now if I had a new car I would have nothing at all as I would never want it back if it was stolen however I want to know where this truck is at any time and if its stolen Ill know exactly where it is and every 5-8 sec it transmits its location. you can watch someone drive it in real time and see where they are and there speed. Pretty neat. My friends actually watched me drive over here. Creepy huh

There is 2.5k of rims and rubber in this puppy alone. Its fully insured however it took me 18 months to find it in the first place. I would rather not have to find another 72 longbed with factory AC and discs in such amazing condition.

I might tell everyone how the GPS works on another thread.

I'm interested in how it works.
s/t

[Skirkpat]

Originally Posted by Pont406

Cleszkie,
That's what I thought also. He keeps rambling about on and on. Just my opinion.

Or he has a low tolerance for ignoranance (actually I find the opposite to be true), Maybe if you reread the post you would find out that he traced it to a single rockerarm that was loose even at complete lift ( HMMMM.... Sounds like a flat cam?)? Nobody cares that you built your truck, if it makes you feel good do it, but if it makes you feel good that does not mean you should try to make others feel bad for not doing it...I can guarentee that alot of the people on this board are more than capable of building and tuning thier own engines and choose not to because of a multitude of reasons...all good reasons, whether it is spending time with their wife, or playing with their kids (try that sometime instead of making them play Wii, it is good for them) I have bit my tounge, and after this will continue to but the post asked for some simple advice, and while I am probably not the one to change his cam I am one of the ones on here that can point him in that direction.....oh yah and as far as money goes, He moved from San Francisco to New york, he has plenty of money,you can buy whole states for what it costs to live in Marin County....Leave the guy alone if you A) do not know how an engine operates, or B) are jelous of how much his nice ass truck costs, 99.9 % of every post I have read on this site is almost sickly sweet ( thats nice actually ) why are you flaming this guy? you have a nice truck too...even if it has stock wheels? just MY opinion

[leddzepp]

Originally Posted by Pont406

Cleszkie,
That's what I thought also. He keeps rambling about on and on. Just my opinion.

"Ramble on....sing my song!" Another Zep classic!!!!

[long69]

dude asks what could be wrong. gets plenny answers. even yanks a valve cover as suggested but fails to check oil for metal which is even easer that removing a valve cover.
states that one rocker arm isn't raising as far as others, i didn't catch anything about a push rod loose as would be indicated by a flat lobe on the cam or out of adjusted valve. then we here some jiberish about how he turbo'd a 1.2 and it would kick his truck arse, it would even do 100 in second. sorry for rambling on, where's the bridge?

[gavotter333]

Originally Posted by long69

dude asks what could be wrong. gets plenny answers. even yanks a valve cover as suggested but fails to check oil for metal which is even easer that removing a valve cover.
states that one rocker arm isn't raising as far as others, i didn't catch anything about a push rod loose as would be indicated by a flat lobe on the cam or out of adjusted valve. then we here some jiberish about how he turbo'd a 1.2 and it would kick his truck arse, it would even do 100 in second. sorry for rambling on, where's the bridge?

Yes I did get plenty of answers. They have helped me a lot and this is how I have come to the conclusion that its the cam. No one seems to dispute this either. They all seem to want to come to my rescue and rebuild it for me. My comments about my old Hondas were merely entertaining and if you think about it ironic that I owned it in the first place. It was a little light hearted fun that if nothing else it should be embarrassing to me LOL however show that I have a keen and long interest in cars.

Actually the bridge is the Tribourough bridge in Queens looking to the upper east side of Manhattan. I think its a little easier to remove a rocker cover than to take an oil pan off in a very dusty underground car park that is 3 story's under the ground and on a 20 deg slope and have no real way to jack up the truck. I am also dealing with warranty issues and need to leave it as it is so the builder can see exactly what went wrong as per his request. For the others that think I don't do any of my own work on this truck you are very much mistaken. I have with the exception of things that should be done by a professional, all of the work on this truck. I have replaced with the help of my excellent mechanic in SF Mobill restorations on Howard St all of the components that I have restored my self. And yes it is very satisfying. However I get others to do work on it also as I

1 Do not have a House with backyard and garage.
2 Am not a mechanic.
3 Dont always have time to do it and get it done
4 Dont know enough to do it myself
5 Have paid someone else with more years doing this than I have been alive to do it and would rather have them repair an issue that is or may be beyond my control.

The weekend is Upon us and ill have loads of time to have a tinker. I do not intend to take this oil out as it may very much be the entire source of the problem and would make it harder to diagnose on the other end.

Think about it, You can ramble all you want but as the motor is non functional and its not going to repair its self. Its going to be repaired by the builder.

I have told everyone what I found. The rocker has a lot of play in it the push rod is loose and it would make a really good indication as the stud does not seem to have moved that with the oil that is in it the cam has failed. The movement of the rod is also not as far as the other rods on that side of the engine. I very much doubt that the rocker simply unbolted its self so at the risk of repeating my self we believe its the cam.

I am not going to pull this truck to pieces just for the satisfaction of some of the people who posted on here. Ill leave that to the man who built it. I think that's the sensible thing to do.
Case closed. You will find out what I do when its stripped down.

Sorry just wanted to ad that the rocker is not just loose it wobbles about like a rattle. The push rod when flat leaves about an 8th of an inch of play. As for the oil being burnt. I assume that this will also be repaired with the fresh rebuild.

Fingers crossed I that my beast back soon and move on in a forward direction, Pardon the pun

[Skirkpat]

Gavotter www.purposebuilt.org good website for performance engine questions, I think you have to register but its free, but if you want to go fast they can teach you some tricks.

[long69]

ok I'll say it there is no way a name brand oil of the wrong weight is going to cause your engine to fail in such a short amount of time. certainly not a 30w, with the exception that if the engine was built to modern clearances, meaning requiring something like a 0 weight oil. and even if this were the case it would not affect your valve train.plus your builder would have told you to be careful of what kind and weight of oil to use. so keeping the oil in there is useless. not to bust your ?alls or anything but it seems you have been led to believe that possibly your oil may have caused this, I say capitol BS. I'll even say your break in did not cause this and your builder did not do a terrible job, and you didn't pay too much. its some kind of parts failure and the big question is which part. i'm now leaning to: that its not your bottom end so you might as well keep that oil in there. you have all winter to get it checked out.

[ka_jd7and1]

Like sflanagan I am also from Bakersfield and am interested to hear who you went to. There are only a handful of high-performance shops here in town, I've only dealt with 1 shop personally (I race circle track and they did all the machine work on my motor).

[gavotter333]

Originally Posted by long69

ok I'll say it there is no way a name brand oil of the wrong weight is going to cause your engine to fail in such a short amount of time. certainly not a 30w, with the exception that if the engine was built to modern clearances, meaning requiring something like a 0 weight oil. and even if this were the case it would not affect your valve train.plus your builder would have told you to be careful of what kind and weight of oil to use. so keeping the oil in there is useless. not to bust your ?alls or anything but it seems you have been led to believe that possibly your oil may have caused this, I say capitol BS. I'll even say your break in did not cause this and your builder did not do a terrible job, and you didn't pay too much. its some kind of parts failure and the big question is which part. i'm now leaning to: that its not your bottom end so you might as well keep that oil in there. you have all winter to get it checked out.

I am a little lost as i think others might be to this post. First you say take the oil out then you say keep it in there and That you think its nothing to do with the oil. However then you contradict this by saying you think the cam is fine and then that a part has failed. I think we have clearly covered that a part has failed. Either way and or if not to might somewhat possibly >>>>>>>>> There are a very small number of parts in this prehistoric design of engine. If a push rod is not being pushed then the most logical conclusion is that the thing that is pushing it is not doing its job. There is only one thing that pushes that rod. The cam. I guess its possible that the cam is totally fine and the seat for the rod has failed. Either way no matter what it is its not going to fix its self and it needs to be striped and checked.

This is the last post ill be making till its in Bakersfield. As i seen to be going round in circles.

[gavotter333]

Originally Posted by ka_jd7and1

Like sflanagan I am also from Bakersfield and am interested to hear who you went to. There are only a handful of high-performance shops here in town, I've only dealt with 1 shop personally (I race circle track and they did all the machine work on my motor).

All will be revealed shortly when Its resolved. But I have and will not discuss this. As mentioned before there are not to many shops there t this level.

[long69]

no i said your oil did not cause the failure. i did not say your cam is ok or your bottom end is fine. but from the noise you describe it is more than a noisy lifter. one way to eliminate your bottom end ( read rod bearing) is to check your oil for metal chunks ( i have sucked a rod bearing before and know what kind of debris it leaves behind an what kind of noise it makes both before during and after). i believe you overstated the level of your noise and no longer think what you might be hearing is a rod knock hence no need to check for bearing material in you oil. but i'm glad you have no problem shipping you baby across the country. i'll be waiting for the out come.
you know it just came to me reading another post that a cracked flex plate can cause a noise very close to that of a rod knock in it early stages. to bad no way for you to check.

[hotrod 80]

I had the XE 268 H Comp cam and it failed after approx 4000 miles also . I was told to go with the 268 because the 274 was failing alot . I hope everything works out .

[Skirkpat]

alot of people run aggresive cams thinking that they can build more power with a " lumpy cam" , that is not always true. That lump that you hear is valve overlap at idle, at a certain point you begin to bleed off static commpresion wich translates into lost power, The real way to build power is in the head, and no that does not mean you and a dremel bit should "get it on" in the back of your garage with a set of heads , porting and polishing is not something that you will ever "stumble across" you need to buck up and have a pro do it!! Subtle mods like 3 angle vale jobs lightening your valve train, using the right length pushrod to optomize valvetrain geometry, are the wat that you make an egine perform optimaly...one of my close personal friends is a National top 20, 10.5 inch radial racer, these cars are running mid 7's in the 1/4...His advice, Bigger is not always better, and to big will kill power..always!!

Spend your money on heads, and then a rollerized valvetrain if possible, not stroker kits (unless you have a little coin left over).

I had over 3k in these heads, worth every penny.

[gavotter333]

Originally Posted by Skirkpat

alot of people run aggresive cams thinking that they can build more power with a " lumpy cam" , that is not always true. That lump that you hear is valve overlap at idle, at a certain point you begin to bleed off static commpresion wich translates into lost power, The real way to build power is in the head, and no that does not mean you and a dremel bit should "get it on" in the back of your garage with a set of heads , porting and polishing is not something that you will ever "stumble across" you need to buck up and have a pro do it!! Subtle mods like 3 angle vale jobs lightening your valve train, using the right length pushrod to optomize valvetrain geometry, are the wat that you make an egine perform optimaly...one of my close personal friends is a National top 20, 10.5 inch radial racer, these cars are running mid 7's in the 1/4...His advice, Bigger is not always better, and to big will kill power..always!!

Spend your money on heads, and then a rollerized valvetrain if possible, not stroker kits (unless you have a little coin left over).

I had over 3k in these heads, worth every penny.

I have to say that the biggest portion of this new motor was the heads. I think I got the manly conrods for next to nothing and I know what they cost. I saw the heads before they were installed and they were the read deal. I just cant wait to get it back and have a good old drive again. The cam was matched to the rest of it however I understand that bigger is not better all the time. Hence my choice to keep a 350 in this pup. Could have put something really abnoxious under the hood. Have a feeling that I will get a motor back with rolers and a milder cam. Ill just have to see where we go when Its torn down.

[gavotter333]

Originally Posted by hotrod 80

I had the XE 268 H Comp cam and it failed after approx 4000 miles also . I was told to go with the 268 because the 274 was failing alot . I hope everything works out .

\

I have herd this from a few people. Can you tell a little more about the engine and what happened at the time it failed. How you determined this and how long it took to grind down to nothing after it failed. I think there are others that might read this and this could be really helpful. Did they warrant the cam. It reads like they do on there documentation, Not that they are that expensive when it comes to the rest of the engine.

[gavotter333]

Originally Posted by long69

no i said your oil did not cause the failure. i did not say your cam is ok or your bottom end is fine. but from the noise you describe it is more than a noisy lifter. one way to eliminate your bottom end ( read rod bearing) is to check your oil for metal chunks ( i have sucked a rod bearing before and know what kind of debris it leaves behind an what kind of noise it makes both before during and after). i believe you overstated the level of your noise and no longer think what you might be hearing is a rod knock hence no need to check for bearing material in you oil. but i'm glad you have no problem shipping you baby across the country. i'll be waiting for the out come.
you know it just came to me reading another post that a cracked flex plate can cause a noise very close to that of a rod knock in it early stages. to bad no way for you to check.

Can you elaborate on what a cracked flex plate is and what it might be doing. I have now herd of a few cams failing like this of the same type. I know that oil would not be the sole cause and have been reading about the different metal composition that is being used for these cams now. There is a lot of opinion but it seems that its happening more since the metal change and oil changing for newer engines. We can thank the EPA for that.

[long69]

the flex plate is the same as a flywheel only in an automatic transmission. its what the torque converter mounts to. it can crack between the holes. i think there are six of maybe 4-5 inches in diameter.
i had a 62 nova 6 cylinder w/powerglide that developed a nice knocking sound. i was sure it was the same as a rod knock i had before in my chevelle. i checked for crap in the oil as i had it long enough that there should have been some, but the oil and pan were ok. then a friends brother said it was a cracked flexplate. there turned out to be a nice crack between two of the holes. you would be able to spot it by looking at it, by removing the inspection plate. you would need to rotate the crank to check the whole flex plate.

[hotrod 80]

Originally Posted by gavotter333

\

I have herd this from a few people. Can you tell a little more about the engine and what happened at the time it failed. How you determined this and how long it took to grind down to nothing after it failed. I think there are others that might read this and this could be really helpful. Did they warrant the cam. It reads like they do on there documentation, Not that they are that expensive when it comes to the rest of the engine.

The valve train was noisier than any flat tappet hydraulic i had heard before and i ask about it and was told these cams have "very aggresive profiles" and that was the "nature of the cam grind" . On 3 different occasions the noise was past acceptable . At that point i removed the valve covers and did a hot adjust with the motor running and the noise would quit down . The heads had screw in studs , so it wasn't pull out . I think it was cylinders 4 & 6 . It did it a 4 th time and it was obvious that these rockers were not moving near as much as the others . At that point i tore down and pulled the cam and replaced it . I aslo dropped the pan and cleaned it out ( one side of the rear main seal was backwards and it leaked from startup) . I broke the new cam in and the problem was solved . This was a 355 , forged piston , vortec heads , 2 bolt with headers , 750 edelbrock , HEI , aluminum intake . Pretty hot little motor . My machinist warrantied the cam ( purchased complete cam kit through him and he installed it ) and provided all the gaskets ( accidental seal problem ) and gave me machine work credit for my labor . Of coarse im pretty handy with a wrench and have a place to work on this type of thing out of the weather . To this day every cam i have bought after has still been from Comp Cams . It is and was the only cam i ever had fail . It just happens . I had Chevron delo desiel oil with EOS and changed after 30 minutes with new valvoline racing grade with more EOS . I primed the motor 30 minutes before starting it and think i washed the assembly lube off the cam . I have never primed another and nevr had another problem . Just my .02 . Sorry for the long post .

[gavotter333]

Hello there all,

Unfortunately I don't have the wonderful news that I wish I did. The truck is still here with me in NY and despite many promises that It would be picked up and repaired. It has not been. There is no action an lots of talk. For this reason I will still leave the name of the shop out of this and put it down to a really bad experience. I have left this with my bank as they have decided to refund the cost of the motor in full as it is very much defective. Check with your state as you have many rights and processes that you might be totally unaware of. I had no idea that the simple act of purchasing this with my debit card covers me against shoddy work. Put simply I paid for a new engine that worked and not one plagued with problems. Look at the photo below. This is what happened when it was driven 6 miles to a mechanic on the builders advice to be looked at. The cam is not only flat but it has rendered the motor as junk. (oh the rocker that has a hole in it is not the one that originally had an issue)

As I was sold something that is not what it is it seems that I might be able to just throw this away and buy another. I was totally reasonable with the builder and gave every opportunity to fix his problem. He continuously assured me that he would fix it and well a month later its not even begun.

However I need my truck and paid for a motor that I did not get. Its in the hands of BofA now and I am not the one at fault here. I am however looking into a replacement and will move on and forward. The miracle of the chargeback. For everything else there is VISA card.............

I wanted to thank everyone that offered suggestions and Guess this is the last post on this subject.

Hopefully my next thread will be one with a more cheerful ending.

[Gray Ghost]

Sounds like he wasn't serious about helping you out. No worries now with the chargeback...glad you had that option and yes, everyone who buys anything with a checkcard or credit card has the same option. When they charge it back to him he does have the option of disputing the chargeback, so check with your bank about what he can do in return so that you are ready for the outcome.

As with Paypal's option they may well contact you for a secondary statement...in this instance a witness will be crucial to your chargeback holding water.

Sorry about the motor tanking on you, but it was not your fault. No oil on the planet will ruin a motor like that. I have used my last rebuilder due to problems with mine that are now fixed. Next time out I'll be installing a 5.3/4L60e. On your next motor, I'd consider a third party crate motor [not GM] like Edelbrock or World Products....something with a real warranty.

Good luck and keep us posted on the outcome!

[gavotter333]

Originally Posted by Gray Ghost

Sounds like he wasn't serious about helping you out. No worries now with teh chrageback...glad you had that option and yes, everyone who buys anything with a checkcard or credit card has the same option. When they charge it back to him he does have the option of disputing the chargeback, so check with your banki about what he can do in return so that you are ready for the outcome.

As with Paypal's option they may well contact you for a secondary statement...in this instance a witness will be crucial to your chargeback holding water.

Sorry about the motor tanking on you, but it was not your fault. No oil on the planet will ruin a motor like that. I have used my last rebuilder due to problems with mine that are now fixed. Next time out I'll be installing a 5.3/4L60e. On your next motor, I'd consider a third party crate motor [not GM] like Edelbrock or World Products....something with a real warranty.

Good luck and keep us posted on the outcome!

You are thinking the same as me on the next engine. I think I have had enough from this to warrant an edelbrock engine with a 2 year warranty.

This is a little of piste for this thread however, The bank want a statement from me and a second opinion from a mechanic. I think I might have one that will back me up till the cows come home. If that fails there will be a very messy and public suite filed by me and a very good and aggressive layer that I know in SF. If it gets to this he will truly regret ever having met me and it will cost a hell of a lot of his $$.

I also intend to file with the BAR in CA and see how that goes as he did not follow the correct procedures and think that all things considered he might rethink the chargeback if he does at all. I just have to wait and see.

It is however a real shame and I totally agree. There is no oil in the world that can do that.

[Security guy]

Sorry to hear of the outcome of this. I was hoping it would all work out for you. Take it as it is and move on i guess. Good luck and keep us updated on the new motor you get.

[71 super]

Sorry for the outcome. On the positive if the edelbrock is purchase you will get warrenty in writing and a dyno sheet for the glovebox . Maybe some local members can help you out once everything is hashed out and the new motor arrives.

[long69]

sorry i can't see a flat cam lobe causing a push rod to punch through a rocker arm like that.