Project Madera: A Jimmy GT

[skorpioskorpio]

I should also dig out my power steering pump that Lee's did for me, it's a pretty cool piece. They redid the pressure output for me and did a custom aluminum reservoir instead of the original plastic one that these engines use.

[jlsanborn]

I'd like to see that if you haven't already posted it up!

[ERASER5]

Thanks for the explanation. Now waiting for more pics for the minions.

[skorpioskorpio]

Yea, I kinda slacked there for a while on taking pics of the parts as they came in, then came Chistmas and the girlfriend insisted I put my toys away, so we had room for a Christmas tree...women. There was also that transition period here when posting pics was kind of a pain, anyway...

My brake pedal/master cylinder assembly is still at the machine shop, and I need to get over there and pick it up, I'm sure it's ready, it's been there for several months along with my oil pan. I have everything for the brakes other than the hardlines, but I have all the tooling to make those, I bought the Coolermaster hydraulic flaring tool and *all* the dies, only the real tool geeks will know what that is, but I give it a Cool Tool Factor of 9 and a half.

So a side note on the pan, one of the problems posed by using this engine is the front sump. The original Trailblazer installation has the front axle going *through* the oil pan and the sump in probably the worst position it can possibly be right where the engine cross member is. The machine shop has sliced all but the top 2 inches off the cast aluminum pan leaving the rail, the AC compressor mount and the transmission dirt skirt in place. Again I assume it's done, it's hanging out at the machinists with the brake pedal.

I was going to have a pan fabbed up, until I discovered eMachine shop and Front Panel Express, where I can CAD up stuff and just get a custom part in the mail, there are things I love about our modern age. Also a friend of mine just got a 3D printer so that will make some other things easier as well. Of course all these are different CAD programs as the 2 online places use each their own propretary CAD programs and the 3D printer needs Solid Works files, and I do my initial layouts in Adobe Illustrator with a CAD plugin, Miniony enough for you? I know learning all these CAD programs is making my brain hurt.

...Oh, there was a point, oh yea so now the plan changed from fabbing up a new sump to simply having a plate machined (ala mailorder) for the bottom of the cut off pan that can be welded on and has a flange on the bottom for a Fiat 500 sump. Wait what? ...So the original Fiat 500 is a 2 cylinder engine with a pan flange just about the right size for the 4.2 I6 and there is a surprising number of choices from stock 3.5 litre to 6 and a half. Most are baffled and finned and the larger mushroomed sumps are way cooler than anything I'd ever be able to fab up or pretty much anyone could.



Right now the priority is to get a mockup transmission together and then the chassis can get done as a full roller with engine and drive train. The transmission shop is getting me a 4L80E core so we can gut it and mill the bellhousing off. Also need to mill the outer edge of the pump plate and make the adapter ring for bolting the 4.2 specific 4L60E bell housing to it. Here is a 4L80E that has had this done and the bell replaced with a Reid bellhousing, same deal:



I'm ordering all the mounts today, Energy Suspension body and trans mounts, and Hinson C6 Corvette motor mounts which are just a drop on hockey puck style mount which should work well with the 4.2 the lower perch then just needs to be a platform with a hole in it.

[skorpioskorpio]

Oh, here is my engine from another angle so you can get an idea why those mounts will make it easy:



Those threaded bosses in the lower left in the pic are where the AC compressor mounts, that is one of the reasons I had to retain the top 2 inches of the pan, you can also see the hole where the front Trailblazer axel went and the horrible placement of the sump.

This angle shows the integrated dirt skirt for the trans bellhousing and the location of the starter that makes a simple adapter plate on the front of the trans a messy solution. No room for a starter snout, so it would need to be a custom starter, a custom lower bell cover, blah blah blah. Milling off the bell and making an adapter ring is really a cleaner and easier solution in the end.

[Hart_Rod]

Very cool project!

[mx289]

Originally Posted by Hart_Rod

Very cool project!

x2.

[danimal95]

absolutely love the build!I like the fact that you are keeping a I-6 in it as well,some very cool ideas on the build,keep up the good work!ps if youre interested in selling your old grill I would be really interested in it

[skorpioskorpio]

Originally Posted by danimal95

absolutely love the build!I like the fact that you are keeping a I-6 in it as well,some very cool ideas on the build,keep up the good work!ps if youre interested in selling your old grill I would be really interested in it

Thanks, and um, what? Sell the Jimmy? I'd lose my ass on it at this stage, well probably at any stage. Once we have a collapse of the economy followed by run away inflation maybe then it will be worth what I'm putting into it. Nah, it's being built for me with the idea that It'll be around longer than me, unless we go at the same time

You want a barn find condition '91 Suburban?

[boonedogs72]

think he is just interested in the grille

[danimal95]

Originally Posted by boonedogs72

think he is just interested in the grille

Yep

[skorpioskorpio]

Originally Posted by danimal95

Yep

Oh, damn I guess I misread that. I actually have 2 grills but plans for both, I have a '67 grill that will get welded to a roll pan and powder coated body color. And eventually the Chrome grill will get modified for my recessed rally lighting, rechromed and well another one of my goofy ideas, and riveted to another roll pan with a stretched '67 Camaro bumper mounted where the grill and pan seam is. Will probably keep the coated pan/grill assembly as spare body work given it won't exactly be an off the shelf piece at that point. Initially I'm going to do it without the lights just to get things going. BTW the plan is to do a pan on the back too and it will also get a stretched Camaro bumper, but again to get it going it'll just be roll pans front and rear. Once the Camaro bumpers are there the pans will finish off the body lines below the bumpers and provide support for the front air dam, will probably also have the little Camaro bumper guards as well to frame the plates.

Kind of an aside to that, I'm ordering punches and dimple dies for, not only the pan but also to break up some of the captive double wall stuff going on in the body. I plan on doing a row of dimpled holes, maybe 2-2 1/2" diameter on the underside of the front roll pan so the air that gets diverted by the air dam gets directed through the roll pan and into the radiator. May do brake ducts too, haven't decided yet.

Since I'm planing on powdercoating the whole body I plan on punching and dimpling the new floor ends under the door sile plates, as well as between the rockers and the torque boxes and maybe even a small row of 1"- 1 1/2" dimples on the bottom of the rockers inverted so they provide ventilation and drainage. This solves a couple problems, first lets those areas get powdercoated once things are assembled, and gets rid of the moisture retention that has killed all our rockers.

[skorpioskorpio]

OK, stuff going on, feels like progress, we'll see...

Body is blasted now, and the damage from the iron termites is now known. The blast is a pretty aggressive garnet blast so if there was going to be blow through this'll do it.

She's a colorless tub now:


Here's the blow through on the windshield frame:



And The corners are, well bad and gone:



Some reconstruction there, obviously. Unlike the factory the patches will be sealed though, I'll probably also use sealed bottom rivnuts also. I'm not sure yet if the damage merits cut and replace around the gasket area, or maybe it'll just get leaded or actually unleaded. Eastwood has some leadfree lead that flows at a higher temp than traditional lead that will hold up to the powdercoat curing oven and I'll need to lead the seams anyway. I wasn't expecting all that caulking there.

Continued....

[skorpioskorpio]

As expected, everything under the rockers is kinda toast. A & B pillars gone at the bottom.

Rocker horrors:




...and some floor blow through, fortunately it's basically isolated to a easy to fab flat patch.


I already have rockers, floor ends, pillar patches so I think I'm all good in this area. Those Jimmy/Blazer specific areas seem pretty solid nothing into the quarters at all. I am going to punch and dimple the floor ends (under where the sile plates go and the "wall" between the floor ends and the torque boxes) I am also going to do the same on the top of the rocker panels and cover it with a threshhold plate. I may punch the bottom of the rockers too, and a few higher in the pillars, we'll see, the point to this is so that it gets powder coated on the inside of these areas as well as providing ventilation and drainage. This trucks days of driving through the mud are over, but that doesn't mean it won't still get wet in there once in a while. Besides by the time I'm done punching and flaring holes in the body, I'll probably shed a fair few pounds and make the body more ridgid in the process.

[skorpioskorpio]

..On the other side of things, the frame is finally being built! Whoo Hoo!!!

The load that went to the fabricator:


Next load is brakes, wheels, coil overs. Hopefully it'll be a roller in couple, few weeks after lot's and lots of delays. The guy doing the chassis has a nice big, well huge, steel topped fab table to layout the frame on. Nice flat plate steel top, perfed and threaded in a grid every couple inches, I'm pretty stoked about this. Delmo was who I thought was going to do it, but he is so entrenched in doing frame draggers, well we talked it over and this guy, TJ, is probably better suited to this sort of thing. He's a former protege of Del who set out on his own. Oh, reminds me, he needs frame dimensions so need to attach these:

[skorpioskorpio]

So I'm going through a renewed push on this project after a long stall, so some updates. The frame is at the fabricators on the fabrication table some issues there which I'm not going to get into here, but with a roller in sight I'm getting ready to stage the rest of it all.

Engine/Trans:

The Weber DCOE pattern Jenvey throttle bodies are on their way from England. The Oil pan has been cut and the Fiat 500 sump has been ordered from Italy. My machinist is making up a new bottom plate for the cut pan with a machined in flange for the bolt on Fiat sump. Will still need to modify a pickup but that is a matter of just using an inline 5 cyl pickup and extending it 100mm since it's basically the same engine with a cyl missing, but setup for a rear sump.

Need to check with my transmission guy, about progress on the sliced 4L80E case, if nothing there, at this point I'll just order a pre sliced case from TCI with their pump plate adapter ring and just have it machined to fit my 4L60E bellhousing.

Will be ordering the PCS controller and 6 speed valve body kit, maybe even this week, along with the re-ratioed 1st and 2nd planetaries from PATC. I'm still considering ordering their tail shaft and housing as well that shrinks the 4L80E overall length and spline to the same as a 4L60E so in the future, in a pinch, I could throw in a 4L60/65/70E without changing anything. Seems kind of expensive for what it is though at $600 for a tailshaft and a casting, is the insurance of swapability worth that?

Still need to make a final determination on the AEM ECU, I will be going with a Series 2 intended as a drop in for a Honda V6 as it has the most features and is actually as cheap or cheaper than most of the alternatives. Will do 6 smart coils, 12 injectors, VVT, launch control, ping sensors, and lots and lots of General Purpose I/O. Very programmable.

Will be ordering a Kooks stainless header today intended for the Trailblazer the engine was originally installed in and an X-Force Varex electronically controllable muffler (all 3" from collector back) which I plan on controlling from one of the I/O leads of the ECU along with a switch to an alternate fuel map for the open exhaust mode. May hold off just a bit on the muffler, as it is available as a round or oval pattern, and with all that is going on in the suspension with trailing arms I'm not sure which fits better and where. I'm doing side exit exhaust so muffler needs to happen before the rear axle, tricky.

I've also gotten a design from Ron Davis for the radiator which is backwards from they typical small block radiator with high sides and low sides reversed left and right. They gave me a design for an aluminum radiator with shrouds and shallow electric fans that looks really nice and is a drop in to the 67-72 core support. To go with it I'll be doing an aluminum cross flow evaporator for the AC which I may anodize black to give me depth behind the lights in the grill, the evaporator not the radiator.

Control:

I also decided to just go for it on the paddle shifter and ordered up a Twist Machine Shrifter, what a pretty piece that is, along with a Nardi steering wheel. I'm getting it black anodised. Once I have wheel and shifter in hand and brackets under the seats I can determine what tilt column length to order from Flaming River.

I'll be using a B&M Quick Silver on the floor for P-R-N-D-L(s) for basic auto gear select, more for the solid feel of it, I probably really only need a Lokar to do the job but when I've seen the Lokar it just doesn't have that same feeling to it, kinda weak even with new detents in the trans. The B&M feels more like big machiney.

Been looking for a good hand brake lever, something not so minimalist as the Lokar. Both the shifter and brake will get leather wrapped pieces to continue the feel with the wheel and seats. What I'm leaning to at this point is a lever from a late model Jeep Wrangler which seems generic and adaptable enough and is just simply a lever, mount and indicator switch and not some thing so built into it's surroundings that it makes it difficult to adapt. Surpisingly the nicest of the aftermarket hand levers are hydraulic, never even considered such a thing, obviously a drifters thing I guess.

Body work:

Looking for a panel beater to finish up my body work, I think I found one, I've used him before, he did the wheel well stretch on my '91 Suburban years ago. I've gotten all my dimple dies and punches to prep the rockers, which I'm going to perferate so when they powdercoat the body it gets coated inside the rockers. Will probably do door bottoms, and A and B pillars as well.

Grill; I will likely be selling off my '67 painted and '70 chrome grill as I've decided the '71-72 grill may fit my needs more. I plan on cutting out the horizonal bars for my crazy lighting and the early grills are difficult to do that with because the vertical bars and horizonal bars are in the same plane and form a center point where they meet in the center. The '71-72 grills have the horizonals recessed from center so I can cut them out and patch where they were. It also has a bit of a Pontiac look to it once done, Here is a Photoshop concept I did of it using a pic of a members truck as a donor image: Attachment 1245976
Also note the sectioned and stretched '67 Camaro bumpers to hide the seam between the chromed grill and the painted roll pan. Roll pan will also be punched and dimpled to direct airflow from the air dam. The grill will be powder coated over the chrome in the recesses.

Will also order pans this week, probably Mar-K, and a smooth cowl panel from Scotts. I have soem '69 Grand Prix door handle cutouts I'll be using in the doors to smooth the handles in the doors, and already have reproduction handles to go with them. The Grand Prix handles are flush and you press on the end to pop them out. Again more Pontiac touches, hey I figure GMCs were sold along side Poniacs on the same lot most of the time.

I will also be frenching in Shelby Cobra aluminum popup gas fillers, and decided I may as well just put one on either side for balance, that way I never have to remember which side my filler is on. With my side exit exhaust I'm planing on doing a full width tank in the back that extends past the frame rails, I'm figuring I could get somewhere between 32 and 38 gallons back there and still keep good ground clearence. Since the frame is there the top of the tank will be essentiall split into 3 cavities and I will need to run some sort of breather system between them so that filling from either side cavity will fill all 3.

Bed will be lined with aircraft seat grid (also known as L-rail) and leveled out with sheet HDPE (the stuff they make from recylced milk jugs and use as a substitute for wood in park benches and decking), it's available in colors, I'll just be using black. The aircraft seat grid will let me snap in various "stuff" like bed cross bracing, the rear seats, a bulk head, a retractable hard tonneau cover mechanism, chocks for the bikes, tie downs, etc, etc, etc. It'll also give the bed a planked look, but sort of a high tech version in black and black powdercoated track.

Electrical-electronics:

I'm leaning towards an all breaker marine type system for the electrical buried into a dash to bed center console along with all the controllers and electronics housed in there and of course the e-brake and floor shifter.

I'll be doing a custom gauge pod, which is a whole other thing unto itself, with custom faced gauges from Speedhut. I don't really care for any of the aftermarket indicator options I've found or the cheesey LCD odometers in most of the aftermarket electronic speedometers so I'll be using a small Dakota Digital all in one dealy that is intended for motorcycles that provides a vacuum flourecent odometer along with turn signal indicators, high beam, digital speed, graphical tach, caluclated gear position based on RPM vs MPH, trip odometer and some idiot lights. This will be positioned into the cluster along with a bevy of traditional analog gauges, with kind of Ford GT40 inspired faces. There will also be a small color LCD panel in the middle.

To get things going, the Dakota Digital motorcycle panel does enough to function as the work in progress cluster. The rest will come later when I do the finishing in the interior. Like I said it's a whole project unto itself.

The seats have little compressors in them for lumbar bladder inflation, they're 30 years old and one is dead and the other weak, so I'm planning on bypassing them and just running a small frame mounted compressor to do the job for both seats as well as hopefully provide on board air for tire inflation and just not carry a spare, since there is no real place to put one that isn't in the way. Just carry a plug kit instead. There is aftermarket wireless tire pressure sensors, and as much as I hate to break beads on tires that have never even hit the road yet, I'll probably go ahead and get those installed.

Anyway, probably more than enough for now, I'll post parts pics as they come in, and frame and panel progress pics as it gets done.

[jimbug]

We'll looks like you have a plan set. Looking forward to what you are going to do to your truck!

[mcmlxix]

The attachement for the 71/72 grille doesn't seem to work. I would be interested to see what your plans are.... "crazy lighting"

[skorpioskorpio]

I wouldn't let me edit my original post, but this is my concept render:

[jlsanborn]

That's a lot of figgerin out you've done! This is going to be a fun build to watch. Keep the updates coming!

[skorpioskorpio]

So as crazy as some of this stuff may seem the one part that still gives me pause is the ECU. After reading and reading and reading, then calling and finding out I've totally misunderstood what I was reading, now I'm looking at an ECU that seems to actually do what the docs seem to indicate it does. I was planning on using the AEM Series II, then the AEM Infinity 6h, then maybe the full featured Infinity 8, but they are closed up and I can't do what I want with any of them, Holley Dominator and FAST xfi 2.0 were the same. So I started looking at some higher end stuff, the problem is the price tag, it's a holy crap moment.

So I'm now considering going with a MoTeC M600, it's a whole other thing. Open definable message logging and message output over CAN, you can add expanders to increase I/O, is very oriented towards the type of induction limitations I have (no MAP or MAF or stable vacuum source) and can do most of it's air/fuel adjustment based on closed loop Lambda monitoring of the exhaust. I can't even bring myself to say what this magic box costs in a public forum, but lets just say if you bought 2 of the top of the line boxes from Holley or AEM or FAST it would cost you less than an M600 and if you wanted the M800 (the 8 cyl box) you could buy all 3.

The MoTeC is a pretty special animal though, not that it does it out of the box, but it can be made to do some stuff that really makes you re-evaluate what you thought you knew about ECUs. They have hooks for GPS mapping and can adjust your engine management to change as you go around a track, they have add ons to manage power so you can essentially eliminate your fuse block and regulate, limit and manage power via software, they have out of vehicle remote monitoring that allows a crew to tweek your vehicle as you are driving it, way out there stuff, really expensive stuff.

There also seems to be no deals on the MoTeC, pretty much the same cost no matter where you go. The unterminated harness cost is just silly, so I'll have to build my own from scratch, which is OK. Even though you can define the CAN message format, what the gauges I was going to use understand is apparently *not* standard CAN but some variation of CAN used by OEM ECUs that is typically sent over ODBII, not really CAN. This means I'll probably need double senders for almost everything I have a gauge for, what a PITA.

Also a hindsight moment, apparently if I had ordered my Moser axles with the lobes for antilock brakes, with the sensors the MoTeC can use those for launch control, may re-address that sometime down the road, we'll see.

[mcmlxix]

Have you considered LED bars from companies such a Rigid Industries and Vision X. You could fill the factory grille slats without needing to slice and dice it.

Also, at least one company is making LED headlights in the 5.75" size needed for your quad headlights. ORACLE headlights function as both hi/low beam...

[skorpioskorpio]

Well no I haven't and really wouldn't.

First off it'll be a tech vehicle under the covers, but there is a certain somewhat crude vintage racing look I'm going for, big LED arrays don't fit that look at all. I'm even trying to figure out how to disguise the LEDs I would like to use like marker lights and such, I'd like the reliability but don't want the array look.

Second those Marchals will throw a focused beam over a mile and a half, no current LED can do that at least not for a few more years. Even some of the huge LED arrays that are dimensionally bigger, are super expensive, and draw even more power can't do that.

I kind of like the horizonalless grill, it has a sort of Pontiac look to it which I think goes with the Trans Am extractors I'm putting in the fenders and Grand Prix door handles, and you know the GMCs were sold on the same lot alongside Pontiacs most of the time.

Very well funded World Rally Championship teams and Paris-Dakar teams are still using these long out of production Marchals and Cibie Super Oscars in preference to any LED or HID technologies. The same is true in the 24 hour races the vast majority of forward lighting is halogen, while LEDs are starting to creap in, I don't think any of the cars are using LEDs exclusively. HIDs have pretty much come and gone already, virtually absent from high dollar night racing.

I do think the LED stuff will eventually take over, but it's just not there yet and I don't think it'll ever look vintagey well not until it actually is.

[mcmlxix]

Now I understand that it's the vintage look you're going for, I understand why the LED lights wouldn't work...

Have you picked up the oil pan yet? I am really interested in the Vortec 4200 motor now as I was thinking about using it for a future project. I understand the factory 07+ ECM will control the motor and 4L60e as well as simple a simple turbo set up... Where did you get your motor and what was your cost?

[skorpioskorpio]

The other issue is that the high output LED stuff is still in it's infancy, most if not all automotive LED lighting is constructed from off the shelf components no intentionally designed as automotive lighting which makes the current products essentially arrays of tactical flashlights. If you happen to have one of these tactiacl lights like a Fenix or similar, at full output they are glare monsters, shine one on a printed page full on and it's practically illegable, for me anyway, I have to crank it down and it all comes into focus, but at that output it's not all that impressive as far as light output. Unfortuanatly at this point most of the LED stuff is doing it the easy way and there isn't really the focused development on making pre-patterned automotive arrays yet with a tight pattern and ditch the reflector since LEDs don't ned them, it's just to make it look like something familiar. Their day will come and when it does everything else will be an antique.

Sorry for the rant...

Anyway, yes, I am in posession of the Lavazza Fiat 500 pan now, looks like it will work out well, and is really a very very nice piece. My one complaint is that the bottom plate did not come with a gasket and suggests it be attached with silicone sealant (as near as I can figure the instructions are in Italian). I think I'll be making a gasket for it. I've been trying to get some time to go do the tour, Machinist has my 4200 pan and it's been sliced but he needs my input on what to cut out internally around where the front drive shaft re-enforcing ribs were. There is quite a bit of random structure there. He's also going to be doing the new bottom and flange for the Fiat pan to bolt on to (with a relocated dip stick hole), and my fabricator will be welding it together. Then the Fiat pan just becomes a removable sump on the bottom of the 4200 pan.

My engine came from a yard in Louisville, Ky out of a totaled 2008 Trailblazer with 10K miles on it. Apparently it was lost in the inventory and sat on a shelf for 5 years, forgotten. Anything that wan't the motor however was hacked, they basically sawzalled it out of the truck, cutting through the harness and several of the sensors, oh and one of the motor mount purches.

The 2008 and 2009 engines (and maybe '07) use the 58X crank triggers like the LS motors and can use the, and I hope I get the number right here, E67 PCM which is also capable of controlling a 6L80/90 trans, which is damn interesting. They are capable of being tweeked for turbos, google "limeswap" he's a guy doing turbo reprograms specifically for the 4200s. I believe he has even done a variable vane turbo setup. Doesn't help me though, OEM PCMs require MAP which requires some sort of stable vacuum source which with me going with ITBs I won't have. Basically factory ECUs need a common plenum, common throttle body, and drive by wire to work, I will have none of the 3.

My engine cost me $1200 and another $400 for freight to a dock. Original pan was cracked in a couple of places where the front axle got tweeked in it from the accident it was in, it was covered in either lime stone or gypsum dust, and the above mentioned demolition style removal method but other than that it was in really really nice condition. In SoCal it would have cost me triple that, so I view it as a steal. There are early (2005) complete crate engines floating around, though they are probably getting more scarce and have the composite valve cover vs the cast aluminum one. Oh and the heads are different between the plastic and aluminum cover versions and covers do not interchange, also early motors have much smaller exhaust ports.

Be warned the 2006-2009 engines are mechanically similar but the harnesses have different connectors, GM was concerned that they may lose Delphi as a source at the time and changed over all the connectors to some Bosch, Metri-pack and Weather-Pack randomness with some Delphi leftovers in the later years. So if you plan on using an OEM PCM get an engine with all the electronics still intact or know the specific year. Stupid things like AC compressors, alternators and sensors are interchangable mechanically but have different connectors. Oh and know that AC compressors and alternators are specific to 4200s (or actually Atlas motors) and bolt directly to the block.

These engines are (within a few mm either way) very similar bore and stroke wise to the 4.2 litre Jaguar XKE engines and where as the XKE engines take quite a bit of tuning and mods to get to 300hp, that is about where the 4200s start out. I really am hoping that by sort of treating it similarly (tri-Y headers, and individualised intake) I can get the sort of sound that a high hp Jag motor can have, almost like an angry V12 with a pop-pop-pop when you let off on the throttle and defenatly a sound that sounds like it's from another era. Like this Jag:

300 bhp Jaguar E-type 4.2 Litre built by Lex Classics