'64 C-10 Stalled Project Rescue

[88Stanger]

last of them...

[88Stanger]

Just so you know, I bought the Heim Joint Mount they have, BUT moved it back to the back two bolts rather than the front two (Both used the same middle bolt)

[Arne]

Yeah, I downloaded a copy of those directions from Unisteer a while back. Oddly, I've read through the instructions that came with the POL rack, and they make no mention of cutting the OE steering shaft. They mention the possible need to shorten the new intermediate shaft, but nothing about the OE shaft. I find the discrepancy to be a bit odd. It will be interesting to see what I run into when I get into this. I'm prepared to cut the OE shaft if necessary, but it would be great if I don't have to.

[88Stanger]

Originally Posted by Arne

Yeah, I downloaded a copy of those directions from Unisteer a while back. Oddly, I've read through the instructions that came with the POL rack, and they make no mention of cutting the OE steering shaft. They mention the possible need to shorten the new shaft, but nothing about the OE shaft. I find the discrepancy to be a bit odd. It will be interesting to see what I run into when I get into this. I'm prepared to cut the OE shaft if necessary, but it would be great if I don't have to.

I wished I had more info for you on this, but I am going with an aftermarket steering assembly. Just from what I seen and found, the longer the shaft is coming out of the firewall, the worse the angles get when you add in the universal joints. This may not make sense yet, but maybe as you start the process you will see what I found. If by chance you do not find that this is the case, please elaborate on what you find. I fully understand your concern cutting the original shaft! that would make me nervous also.

[Arne]

Might get to this over the weekend. If not then, it may be another week or so beyond that.

[Arne]

New seat foam arrived today, and it is very nice. I'm hoping to get at least the seat cushion recovered this weekend, maybe the seat back as well. So probably won't start the steering conversion this week.

[Arne]

Really pleased with the fit and feel of the new foam. Makes it easy to build a nice seat. The cushion is done. Backrest sometime this weekend.

[Braunschweiger]

This looks nice and comfortable

[Arne]

Originally Posted by Arne

Really pleased with the fit and feel of the new foam. Makes it easy to build a nice seat. The cushion is done. Backrest sometime this weekend.

Well, the backrest isn't going as well.

The PO bought the seat covers and carpet to match (dark saddle), but it turns out the covers are for '67-72. While the seat cushion cover fit the '64 frame nicely, I did notice some quirks. The fit of the '67-72 backrest cover over the '64 seat frame is rather fussy. I wasn't satisfied with my first attempts. I've got a new approach in mind now, so I'll keep at it and report back later.

[Arne]

While taking a break from the seat backrest upholstery this morning, I took another look at the steering pump mounting. And after a bit of head scratching and tweaks, I'm pleased with it all now.

Getting this all sorted was a lot more hassle than I expected. GM must have equipped millions of long water pump small blocks with both power steering and A/C. So getting everything to fit and line up is not cutting edge stuff, but should be very routine.

Here's what I came up with in the end:

• Saginaw pump for bolt-on pulley (Performance Online)
• Steering pump bracket kit for long water pump (Alan Grove Components, #402L)
• Aftermarket factory-spec 2-groove steering pump pulley (GM #3941107)
• Used factory 3-groove crank pulley (GM #3972180)
• Existing factory long water pump 2-groove pulley (standard early '80s GM part)

Even with all this, mostly factory parts, I had to re-engineer the pump mounting a bit. While AGC says their parts are designed to use factory pulleys, when I mounted the pump per directions, the groove alignment was not correct (too far forward by about ½ a groove). Luckily, the design of the AGC brackets allowed me to substitute different spacers to move the pump back about 5/16". That made it all work.

Will be moving on to the rack and pinion mounting soon.

[Arne]

Well, today was more than a bit disappointing. A whole lot of things not going the way I'd hoped or planned.

Now that I had the steering pump mounting and various pulleys sorted, I began fitting the rack & pinion itself.

1st issue — The factory GM 3-groove crank pulley doesn't allow the rack to fit in place. The factory 3-groove pulley (GM #3972180) has 2 inner grooves at 6¾" diameter, and the outer groove is bigger, at 7¾". That bigger outer groove hits the rack tube.

Temporary solution — I put the original 6¾" 2-groove crank pulley back on. I don't need the 3rd groove until I add A/C in the future, and 3-groove aftermarket pulleys with all 3 grooves at 6¾" are available.

With the original pulley back in place, I mounted the rack to the frame. That went fine, it fits up exactly as it should. But it also brought additional issues to light.

2nd issue — The lower U-joint on the new steering shaft won't clear the newly mounted steering pump.

3rd issue — Despite no mention of this in the instructions from POL, the steering shaft will need to be cut short near the firewall.

4th issue — Not only will the shaft need to be cut, it will also need to be modified at the cut end from ¾" round to ¾" DD so that the U-joint can be attached.

Issues 3 & 4 are annoying mostly because POL made no mention in the instructions about this. I suspected that I'd need to do both of these, but hoped otherwise. It looks to me that if I do this right, I should be able to make the shaft work without having to use a third intermediate U-joint, but I can't promise that just yet.

Issue 2 is a lot more troublesome, and was also reported recently by member 88Stanger. It looks like there are really only a couple of paths forward. One is to use the later Type-2 Saginaw pump with remote reservoir. The other would be to convert to an electric pump instead.

Both options mean starting from scratch on the pump stuff. Pretty annoying given the hoops I jumped through to get the pump to fit and line up properly.

The later style pump has the advantage of being fairly traditional, and a known quantity. But given the pulley alignment headaches I've had so far, I'm not convinced that it would be a simple fitment. And 88Stanger reports that the frame needs to be trimmed for hose clearance with the Type-2 pump. The price tag would also be significant. Pump, reservoir, brackets and pulley will easily be $400, maybe even $500.

The electric pump (typically Volvo, possibly Mazda or Mini) can be picked up pretty cheaply from salvage yards, and is not really large, so there are multiple mounting possibilities. But they do draw significant power, and might need an alternator upgrade, depending on what the later unit now in my truck can deliver. But even with a bigger alternator it will probably be considerably less expensive than a new Type-2 pump and bits. And without a belt-driven pump, no pulley changes are needed for later A/C.

So I'm on hold for a bit while I continue to research pump choices.

Last note - While POL rack & pinion kit is still a decent option, the pump clearance issue is a big caveat that people need to be aware of.

[cwcarpenter98]

Man, that's a bummer on the fitment issues.
Is your engine mounted in the stock, v8 location, or is it moved forward on the frame some? I wonder if maybe some of the fitment issues you're running into is from the engine being further forward on the frame than stock?

[Arne]

I'm pretty sure the engine is in the stock location. In fact, most indications are that it was a V8 truck from the start.

I don't believe my fitment issues are unique. 88Stanger has posted the same pump clearance issue with this rack kit in his build thread.

[caseyjones]

Are you fully committed to the rack and pinion conversion? Seems like another option is to switch to a power box from a square body truck and return the POL kit.

[Arne]

Originally Posted by caseyjones

Are you fully committed to the rack and pinion conversion? Seems like another option is to switch to a power box from a square body truck and return the POL kit.

That's a good question. Had I known about the pump clearance issue prior to placing my order, I might have gone with the square body conversion. But only due to the pump clearance issue, as the square body 'box still typically requires some additional mods (to column and new holes in frame), and I'd have wanted to replace all the steering parts with new anyway. I do like the idea of the modern rack steering precision, so I might still have ordered the rack kit, although I wouldn't have spent the time, effort and money on the pump, brackets and pulleys.

Besides, I don't know how much arguing I'd need to do at this point to return it, as each rack is custom fabbed to order. It's not worth it to me to pay return shipping and maybe a restock fee to start over, given that there are ways to make it work.

After doing more reading last night, I'm pretty sure I'm going to try the electric pump solution, probably mounted inside the left fender well.

[Arne]

After further review, I'm definitely going to go with the Volvo electric pump. I plan to get one coming later today. I will need to either modify the Volvo bracket or fab up a custom part for mounting, and also get a metric M16 to -6 AN adapter, but it should be straightforward to mount and hook up. The wiring is simple, just 3 wires (a 12 ga. to battery positive, another 12 ga. to chassis ground, and a wimpy wire to switched ignition). Done that way, the variable speed of the Volvo pump is in "limp home mode" and runs at a fixed 70%.

There are aftermarket controllers available to change that—one is just a simple manual rheostat knob adjustable from the driver's seat, anything from 0-100%. The other is rather cool, it is automatic based on the speed of the truck, and includes a GPS sensor to determine how much boost to provide. Full boost at low parking lot speeds, to minimal boost on the highway. Sounds cool, but I'm just going to start with the fixed 70% choice, and one of the controllers can always be plugged in later if desired.

I have the rack itself mounted in place. The steering shaft route is fairly clear and shouldn't be too difficult, now that I've eliminated the pump clearance issue. I will need to make a couple of small relief cuts just to ensure good clearance, but nothing major.

[Arne]

The mechanical part of the steering conversion is now complete. Everything is bolted up and all is working well. The wheel turns lock to lock smoothly and no binding.

As for the hydraulics, I'm ordering the Volvo pump this evening.

[jweb]

Thanks for sharing all the info on the POL kit mine just arrived and I’ll be installing it in a few weeks.

Hopefully I won’t have as many issues, I’m using an Ididit column and LS engine.

[Arne]

Originally Posted by jweb

Thanks for sharing all the info on the POL kit mine just arrived and I’ll be installing it in a few weeks.

Hopefully I won’t have as many issues, I’m using an Ididit column and LS engine.

I don't think the Ididit column should add much in the way of problems. If the column is longer under the hood than stock, you may need to add a 3rd U-joint and shaft support bearing, but otherwise it should be similar.

POL notes that you can't use a low mount alternator or steering pump with an LS. I don't know what other engine driven pump options there are for those engines, so I don't know if you'll need to use an electric pump or not.

[The Rocknrod]

My Ididit column (automatic, column shift) shown. Should be doable.

[jweb]

Originally Posted by Arne

I don't think the Ididit column should add much in the way of problems. If the column is longer under the hood than stock, you may need to add a 3rd _u-joint and shaft support bearing, but otherwise it should be similar.

POL notes that you can't use a low mount alternator or steering pump with an LS. I don't know what other engine driven pump options there are for those engines, so I don't know if you'll need to use an electric pump or not.

I have a 30” column , that’s what Ididit and POL recommend for the rack and pinion.

I was hoping to use the stock alternator this time but it sounds like I might have to relocate again. Never saw anything about this when I ordered but it’s not a big deal.

Hopefully I can get to it in the next few weeks.

[J Williams]

Man, that is an absolute beautiful truck you have built. I love the green color. The white really makes it pop as well. Good work!

[Arne]

Originally Posted by J Williams

Man, that is an absolute beautiful truck you have built. I love the green color. The white really makes it pop as well. Good work!

Thanks! I do feel it is coming along nicely. Still has a ways to go, though. Once I finish the steering conversion and the seat, I have several things left to do. Restore the gauge cluster, new bed wood, aluminum radiator and electric fan, power booster for the brakes, and A/C. Plus numerous smaller details. I figure 3-6 months.

[Arne]

I'm working on some slight mods to make the '67-68 seat backrest cover work on my '64 seat frame, and it is fussy work, so I take my time and take frequent breaks to re-assess as I go.

In the mean time, I bolted the seat cushion into the truck. And, wow, that new foam and repaired side support spring made it like new. Or maybe even better than new. It is nice and firm, no squishiness at all. I sit much taller inside now, enough so that I had to readjust the mirrors.

I also note there is not a lot of thigh clearance with the rebuilt seat and original 17" steering wheel. So this just confirms that I'm going to want to replace it with a smaller (say, 15") wheel. I was thinking about this anyway, as you don't need a 17" wheel with power steering. Now it's pretty much a given.

[Arne]

And...

It's finally done. Pro tip for all my home viewers. While it IS possible to use '67-72 seat covers on a '60-66 full foam seat frame, and some of the later colors, patterns and fabrics may look more attractive to you—DON'T DO IT! Resist the temptation. Getting the back rest cover to fit and look reasonably good is a major pain, and requires a lot of custom fitting and fussing.