Make it handle

[jlsanborn]

Originally Posted by Mechanic77

I don't want to complicate the shock discussion too much, but doesn't shock mounting location/angle also affect what valving is required? Like, how much difference for rear shock valving would there be for stock mounting location vs. your relocated mounts that put the shocks considerably closer to the wheels and more vertical (on a lowered truck)?

The greater the angle, the greater the disadvantage the shock is at. The shock will have to rotate more at the moutning points as well.

Think of it like this....

If the shock were perfectly vertical, then 1" of spring compression would result in 1" of shock travel and zero rotation at the mounts. Now put that sucker at 45 degrees. The same 1" of spring compression results in much less shock travel and it's had to rotate a few degrees on the mounts. So, your shock now has to "absorb" the same amount of "energy" with reduced displacement.

That's about everything I know about shocks! Actually, I don't know jack about shocks, but the geometry makes sense don't it?

[GMC Canuck]

ok, I'm in the planning stages of a tear down rebuild. I love my truck and it pains me to tear it apart cause I know this is more than a winter project but it's lasted 45 years and if it going to last another 45 some things need to be done.

I like the idea of a complete package. I know my strengths and happily defer to smarter people than me who have put together a system of parts that all works well together not the current mishmash of shinny bits I currently own.

I'm looking at no limits wideride front and fatbar rear or porterbuilts dropmember and tubular trailer arms setup or hotchkis' setup

Rob has mentioned several times about unsprung weight so it seems important (I know it is) and so I like his wideride setup. But for the rear, do I need a huge truck 12 bolt. Nope, the truck is never going to haul much more than a cooler. It's done it's time, paid it's dues and can now settle into a nice midlife crisis. I have a toyota to beat the crap out of. I've looked at irs but a custom setup is beyond my budget and retrofitting something like a mark VIII looks like a huge project with limitations on brake, wheel and ratio options. So is there a solid rear axle with a similar track width but maybe a little lighter? I'm not running any huge numbers for horsepower (375-400)

and thank you Rob and everyone else that has contributed or asked some really good questions.

[Grimee]

for my money I would go with Robs Parts first class stuff He talks the talk and most important he walks the walk

[robnolimit]

Good one, right on the money. As you change the angle of the shock away from the true path of suspension travel, the dampening rate drops. Here are some calcs from old notes.
Shock angle - Dampening
0* 100%
10* 96%
15* 93%
20* 89%
25* 82%
30* 75%
35* 66%
40* 59%
45* 50%
You can see that the farther you lay a shock over, the more rapidly it looses effective dampening. These factors also hold true for spring rates, such as on a coil over shock. Understanding these relationship can help a chassis builder tune a vehicle suspension. Heres an example. Lets say you want the shock to have 200lb/in/sec (simplified term) dampening rate, but all you have available to use is a shock with a 300lb/in/sec shock. If you were to mount this shock at a 35* angle off of the true suspension travel line, you would reduce its effective dampening to 66%. So, 300lb/in/sec x 66% = 198lb/in/sec dampening rate. This relationship between mounting angle and dampening rate can be a good thing, for those who understand it, or a bad thing for those who don't.

[robnolimit]

Got my new copy of StreetTrucks today. looks good. WOW, I've been published! + a btchen C10 on the cover

[GEARBOXGARAGE]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

got my new copy of streettrucks today. Looks good. Wow, i've been published! + a btchen c10 on the cover

nice work!!

[Blitz]

Looks like I have lots of reading, rereading, taking notes, comparing notes and editing notes to do. For now, I'm just trying to concentrate on what would make a 93 street truck perform and ride best based on a 4/6 or 5/7 drop in three different scenarios. Budget, Mild and Wild.

[robnolimit]

Originally Posted by Blitz

Looks like I have lots of reading, rereading, taking notes, comparing notes and editing notes to do. For now, I'm just trying to concentrate on what would make a 93 street truck perform and ride best based on a 4/6 or 5/7 drop in three different scenarios. Budget, Mild and Wild.

The first steps of the plan should go like this. 1) Loose wieght, and move weight. Down and back. 2) move weight down - lower the truck, but don't get out of the sweet-spot of the suspension (drop spindles first) 3) Tires are everything. the wider the better. 40 series or shorter. 4) shocks, swaybars and alignment, this stuff is important.

[gringoloco]

What month? I'm no longer a subscriber, but I'd like to grab a copy
Posted via Mobile Device

[robnolimit]

Originally Posted by gringoloco

What month? I'm no longer a subscriber, but I'd like to grab a copy
Posted via Mobile Device

it's the September 2012 issue

[INSIDIOUS '86]

I see your f*rd is on fleabay! What for?
Posted via Mobile Device

[hotrod1]

Rob:

Congrats on the article. You deserve it!

[robnolimit]

Thanks HotRod1
Sid The garage is full, the shop is full, the trailer is full, and if you know about so-cal real estate, more space isn't an option. HellBoy took the last spot and Tina's mustang is coming along quickly. Someone else needs to know what it's like to drive a bad ass F-100. ?? Could be you

[robnolimit]

How to get the BEST DEAL EVER I made a comment on another thread here about buying an IFS. It may have sounded like I was steering the OP towards our product. Yes, thats how I make a living, but that wasn't my goal. Everyday I talk to people about their projects, and more than half of the stories are not so good. Poor quality parts, bad shop experience, over budget, too long....... Many of them are removing parts they bought and installed, only to be unhappy with the outcome. This is the heart of the problem. So how do you get the best deal without getiing screwed? Do your Homework. Ask the right questions, and if you don't know which ones to ask, ask about that too. Forming a relationship with a builder or retailer will help. Not a virtual relationship, but a personal one. Call them on the phone, or stop buy. But, don't waste their time, be ready, have a notepad and pen, and listen to what they say. Think about why they may say these things. Never buy on impulse. You can get Price, Quality, or Service. - But you can't have all three. Most of us are building what amounts to a 4000 lb. bomb. If you plan on driving your truck on a public road, with your wife, girlfriend, and/or kids, set out to make it safe enough for the HP you put in it. Our goal is to grow the classic truck hobby in general. More people building and driving more old trucks. To do that, we have to finish them, drive them, and live through the experience.
p.s. - never put your wife and girlfriend in the truck at the same time.

[jmsaunders]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

How to get the BEST DEAL EVER p.s. - never put your wife and girlfriend in the truck at the same time.

Not even if they are the same person????? I tend to think of my wife as my girlfriend lol.

[CRGRS 66]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

How to get the BEST DEAL EVERp.s. - never put your wife and girlfriend in the truck at the same time.

no kidding, one in each ear... sage advice Rob

[PBFAB.COM]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

How to get the BEST DEAL EVER I made a comment on another thread here about buying an IFS. It may have sounded like I was steering the OP towards our product. Yes, thats how I make a living, but that wasn't my goal. Everyday I talk to people about their projects, and more than half of the stories are not so good. Poor quality parts, bad shop experience, over budget, too long....... Many of them are removing parts they bought and installed, only to be unhappy with the outcome. This is the heart of the problem. So how do you get the best deal without getiing screwed? Do your Homework. Ask the right questions, and if you don't know which ones to ask, ask about that too. Forming a relationship with a builder or retailer will help. Not a virtual relationship, but a personal one. Call them on the phone, or stop buy. But, don't waste their time, be ready, have a notepad and pen, and listen to what they say. Think about why they may say these things. Never buy on impulse. You can get Price, Quality, or Service. - But you can't have all three. Most of us are building what amounts to a 4000 lb. bomb. If you plan on driving your truck on a public road, with your wife, girlfriend, and/or kids, set out to make it safe enough for the HP you put in it. Our goal is to grow the classic truck hobby in general. More people building and driving more old trucks. To do that, we have to finish them, drive them, and live through the experience.
p.s. - never put your wife and girlfriend in the truck at the same time.

Rob-

This is one of the main reasons I respect you and your company. It is always refreshing to see another vendor who shares similar principles and values. Sound advice all the way around!

If I were to emphasize anything you mentioned, it would be the planning process. Take your time in the "discovery" portion of the process. Ask LOTS of questions. Know what you are building BEFORE you build it. This will help ensure that all parts will work together to achieve the desired end result. A clear and solid plan will do nothing more than save time and money in the long run!

Nate

[67cheby]

AWESOME !.....what you are saying is dont do it like MIKE LOSH did !! LOL, 9 years and countless amounts of parts put on and taken off ...never to have been used other then mock-up !! LISTEN guys these are great points to keep you build from dragging out like mine did !!

[AustinBelair]

Man, you guys are way more advanced than I am. I am working on my 87 short bed and really want to make it handle. My dream would new crossmembers, coilovers front and rear, big sways etc but I will never be able to afford that. One of my daily drivers is a supercharged newer Camaro with a bunch of suspension mods and I love it.

My 87 has CPP tubular uppers with Moog BJ's, completely rebuilt lower arms with 1" Belltech springs and I have a 1-3/8" sway bar that I have not installed yet. All of the other front suspension is brand new. The truck rides great in the front but HORRIBLE in the rear. Like really hard. I know it's an old truck and won't ride like a caddy but this is to the point where I think something is very wrong with the rear leafs or there is some kind of bind.

I've asked other people with squares if I could push down on their truck in the rear and I can move theirs up and down. If you try to push down on mine, it doesn't budge. I hate it.

Should I remove a leaf? Ii put new AC Delco rear "Stock replacement" shocks on the rear and it did not change it. I have Eibach 2" drop shackles on it now and they did not alter the ride at all.

I would love the Ridetech rear mono-leaf springs but at $800+ for them, I can't swing that.

Are there any other things I can do? Any donor trucks with the same leafs that I can make a "Bastard pack" out of that will ride better? A good 4 link rear coilover kit that doesn't require a frame c-notch?

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by AustinBelair

Man, you guys are way more advanced than I am. I am working on my 87 short bed and really want to make it handle. My dream would new crossmembers, coilovers front and rear, big sways etc but I will never be able to afford that. One of my daily drivers is a supercharged newer Camaro with a bunch of suspension mods and I love it.

My 87 has CPP tubular uppers with Moog BJ's, completely rebuilt lower arms with 1" Belltech springs and I have a 1-3/8" sway bar that I have not installed yet. All of the other front suspension is brand new. The truck rides great in the front but HORRIBLE in the rear. Like really hard. I know it's an old truck and won't ride like a caddy but this is to the point where I think something is very wrong with the rear leafs or there is some kind of bind.

I've asked other people with squares if I could push down on their truck in the rear and I can move theirs up and down. If you try to push down on mine, it doesn't budge. I hate it.

Should I remove a leaf? Ii put new AC Delco rear "Stock replacement" shocks on the rear and it did not change it. I have Eibach 2" drop shackles on it now and they did not alter the ride at all.

I would love the Ridetech rear mono-leaf springs but at $800+ for them, I can't swing that.

Are there any other things I can do? Any donor trucks with the same leafs that I can make a "Bastard pack" out of that will ride better? A good 4 link rear coilover kit that doesn't require a frame c-notch?

Look into Chris Alston's Chassis-Works for the original bolt-on KP Compnents 4-bar set-up. That gets you the bracketry for bolting in the 4-bar. Then find some weld-on coil-over brackets for installing coil-overs. I would go w/Ridetech for the C/O's.

[robnolimit]

Thanks Nate. You are so right. If you were building a house, you start with a contractor or architect, you don't just run down and buy lumber (OK, well I do that sometimes) Now that some of these trucks cost as much as houses, maybe a little more planning is needed. "If you fail to plan, your planning to fail" (from Yosh, one of my mentors).

Brush it off Mike, your truck is turning out great!

Nate, mark your calender for Saturday, sept 8th. The next So Cal Challenge at AMP in riverside

[Pzary3233]

Interesting idea I just thought of... An 09+ Dodge truck has a 4 link rear end, find a rear end, brackets, and bars and you'd have a pretty decent start to a 4 link. Not to mention discs and 5on 5.5... Pictures and measurements in a bit.

[robnolimit]

I have drivin one, pretty nice - how wide is it?

[Pzary3233]

That was my thought they are a nice riding truck that handles pretty well out of the box. Steal some technology from Dodge and apply it to the old truck.

[robnolimit]

If you want the perfect oportunity to put your truck through the paces, come out to the So Cal Challenge on sept 8. This event is at Adams Motorsports Park (AMP) in Riverside. A full day on the track, time-attack and shootout, 5 classes, show and shine, vendors... $10 gate entry, $20 show and shine (gets two in), $60 competitor (gets two in) always a great day, more track time than anywhere. www.socalchallenge.com