Rat repair.

[bilfman]

Lots of work there! Looking forward to see the finished product!

[Vic1947]

Originally Posted by swamp rat

Had to run to the hardware store to buy more paint brushes to apply the GEM rust converter, as I was doing the application the sun came thru the window and with the door upright and upside down I spotted some more pin holes, I got a small light and found a total of about 9 if them, much smaller but there none the less. Now I hope the pin holes can be welded once the GEM has dried up... Tomorrows task.

I really hate chasing pinholes using a welder... MIG or TIG. Even using a copper spoon to back up the weld, it seems like the pinholes explode into an even larger hole that takes forever to close up. I've been known to thoroughly clean / scuff the backside of the panel and put down a couple of layers of fiberglass cloth or mat to just cover the affected area. Then be sure to brush on a couple of coats of epoxy primer to prevent any moisture from getting between the glass and the metal. As long as you don't need to weld something else in the general vicinity, this is an effective repair that doesn't warp the surrounding metal.

[swamp rat]

Originally Posted by Vic1947

I really hate chasing pinholes using a welder... MIG or TIG. Even using a copper spoon to back up the weld, it seems like the pinholes explode into an even larger hole that takes forever to close up. I've been known to thoroughly clean / scuff the backside of the panel and put down a couple of layers of fiberglass cloth or mat to just cover the affected area. Then be sure to brush on a couple of coats of epoxy primer to prevent any moisture from getting between the glass and the metal. As long as you don't need to weld something else in the general vicinity, this is an effective repair that doesn't warp the surrounding metal.

I came to the conclusion after the 5th hole just as you described that the rest of them were not worth chasing as there so small the primer will cover them up. Did a bit more skuffing on the inside then another coat of Gem.

Do you recommend the K2 primer over the Gen or Metal Etching?

[Vic1947]

Originally Posted by swamp rat

I came to the conclusion after the 5th hole just as you described that the rest of them were not worth chasing as there so small the primer will cover them up. Did a bit more skuffing on the inside then another coat of Gem.

Do you recommend the K2 primer over the Gen or Metal Etching?

I'd use the self etch primer and follow with 2K. I'd be leery of counting on primer to fill pinholes. At a minimum you need something impermeable on the back side to keep the moisture at bay.

[swamp rat]

Ok I chased every last pin hole I could see with a light shining from the back side, what a pita! Recoated everything with GEM and its drying overnight.

Is there a difference between self etching primer and Acid etch primer??? One in the same?

[Vic1947]

Originally Posted by swamp rat

Ok I chased every last pin hole I could see with a light shining from the back side, what a pita! Recoated everything with GEM and its drying overnight.

Is there a difference between self etching primer and Acid etch primer??? One in the same?

I think, generally speaking, acid etch (or wash) primer refers to products like the GEM Rustkiller which is a mild phosphoric acid that converts the rust and helps keep the metal from forming new rust in moderately dry environments. You may also hear the term alodine coating in the same sentence with acid etch primer, although I've personally only seen it applied to aluminum.

Self etch primer usually refers to a coating that cures and has a heavier film build (thickness). Unlike epoxy, it is typically a single stage coating with chemical additives that grip the metal tighter than lacquer or 2K primers. It is a suitable base for most subsequent layers of primers / paints.

Some two part epoxy primers don't adhere well to metal that has been treated with phosphoric acid and has residual iron phosphates on the surface. So if you want to be safe, don't squirt epoxy over the GEM without first wetting the surface with a mild solution of GEM and water, flushing it thoroughly with water and then allowing it to dry for 24 hours. Some epoxies don't care, but I don't have a thumbs up, thumbs down list, so treat them all as if they are sensitive to iron phosphate.

Techniques for prepping bare metal for paint are varied and success depends on what's underneath and what's intended to go on top of the bonding layer. New metal with no history of rust can be treated to a much different regimen than old rusty, pitted metal.

The one thing you can be sure of is that rust is the worst where moisture gets trapped between two layers. We've all seen pictures of old cars in fields that are rusted all over. However, the metal on the exposed surfaces is often in surprisingly good shape. But down at the bottoms of the doors and adjacent to any double walled construction, the rust will have created blisters and gaping holes. So proper metal restoration means not only replacing or neutralizing the rusted metal, but also finding and fixing the source of the rust... which is usually water migrating from somewhere above and collecting in the tight spaces. If you don't address the root cause, you're wasting your time.

[swamp rat]

Off to the slowwwww races. Primer is covered nicely although the camera doesn't show it, taking lots of time with the spotwelds so they cool.

EDIT: I'm about 75% spot welded, 4 more passes not shown in the pic spaced 2" apart and 65% of all spots ground down , this thing is holding shape much better than the last one, its just now starting to show slight pulling, not bad considering I cannot planish the spot welds.

[7dee2]

Really nice work!

[rgunlock]

Looks like you are doing fine on that door Mike!

[swamp rat]

Got the last of the spotwelds done last night, still need to grind them down and give a last look for any areas I missed. A pic from the side, still really happy with the rate of shrinking, and no oil canning. While doing this I was thinking about ways to keep the heat minimized without blowing air or using a wet rag which we know is not a good idea, in machining if your cutting correctly 90-95% of the heat comes off the part within the chip, so I decided to try using a new sharp die grinder bit to knock the spotwelds down, slow and tedious but I do think it helped keep the heat off the part if nothing else by only working a smaller area at a time.

While on the subject I'd like to know which Rolex disks you guys like to use? I have been using the 3M green disks In different grits, but I really don't know if one type is better for steel and another for aluminum??

[swamp rat]

Got the skin welded, still have to do the final crimp on the edges and spot weld a bit. Really impressed by how this door is turning out, there is only one slightly caved area no more than 1/8" and about 5" in length. After I got the painstaking task of die grinding each and every spotwelds via skipping every 3" or so at a time I grabbed my Dotco with a new 30 grit disk to knock it all down evenly and was amazed how quickly the part was starting to get hot even with light pressure, I'm sure the panel would have shrunk up much worse with the dotco.

Naturally with the cell phone posted pictures are upside down...

[swamp rat]

Got the welds done on the inside flanges, started sanding the lower half of the door. I'm beginning to realize that pretty soon I might get to tear the paint booth down, can sure use the space!

[swamp rat]

Well, pulled a bone headed move, went to the paint store Friday after work to buy another Qt of DP50LF primer, and Saturday I grabbed it to spray some on the exterior of the door repair and I inadvertently grabbed DP40LF which is a shade of green not grey, but the can states grey green on it so I didn't realize I messed up, so that shot my plans for the weekend because by the time I realized it the store had closed at noon....

[swamp rat]

Slow but sure, No pictures of the door but I have the lower part of the door primed/sealed with 2K primer and like the other door I sprayed color on the inner lower section of the door after I seam sealed it.

Its getting cold around here and truthfully i'm a little disappointed in my progress, I wasn't thinking about the outer rocker at all when I started work on the door, so I had to resort to this to get the outer rocker primer/sealed with K2, 2 tarps, a space heater, a hair dryer and a length of cardboard to cover the area and warm the rocker enough to get it primed, try and imagine sliding under that little tent and spraying paint.... Now had I done this while working on the door it would have been nice and warm outside.

[DWilbur]

Your truck is looking good getting some work done. more that I have done on mine in the last 6 months. for me its 2 steps back and 1 step forward lately.

[Vic1947]

Having been to your place and seen your setup, what you're getting done in the tight spaces you have to work with is nothing short of amazing, Mike. I know it won't be long before rainy season, but getting your panels in primer will give you a head start when the weather gets better. Kudos!

[DD1]

You are dissapointed in your progress? Really? From where I sit, it look like you are doing great! Everything looks good and seems to be coming along well. Wish I could say the same.

[swamp rat]

I appreciate the comps believe me, probably should have worded that more in line with I'm disappointed with the speed at which I'm getting the work done not the work itself.

I just spend a lot of time trying to figure out how to accomplish tasks like how to get this door adjusted or maybe the setbacks that cost time working on the truck like the latest monsoon we just had.

[swamp rat]

Speaking of here's my latest issue:

Front upper part of door needs to go outward, but look at the window surround its pretty much maxed outward I think?? and the front lower door needs to go in about 1/8".... in these pic's the lower fender bolt is out so the fender will pull in about 1/8" on the bottom.

The rear upper part of door needs to go inward, but the pictures don't show that the lower rear of the door does not need to go in, the body line is already in too far..

Almost like the door is twisted? but I don't think I could have twisted the door with what I did with the skin..

This is where I wish I had an experienced extra hand.... Am I going to have to shim the lower fender out to make this happen?

[Vic1947]

Originally Posted by swamp rat

Speaking of here's my latest issue:

Front upper part of door needs to go outward, but look at the window surround its pretty much maxed outward I think?? and the front lower door needs to go in about 1/8".... in these pic's the lower fender bolt is out so the fender will pull in about 1/8" on the bottom.

The rear upper part of door needs to go inward, but the pictures don't show that the lower rear of the door does not need to go in, the body line is already in too far..

Almost like the door is twisted? but I don't think I could have twisted the door with what I did with the skin..

This is where I wish I had an experienced extra hand.... Am I going to have to shim the lower fender out to make this happen?

In the old days, a factory body man would strategically locate a wood block between the door and the door frame then give the door a shove or two to help remove some of the twist. Obviously you want to push where you have some structural strength and not on an unsupported area that can cave in. Once you have the door lined up halfway decent, you can tinker with shims and hinge adjustments for the rest.

[swamp rat]

Well I'm really fighting this one, I have the top front of the door as far out as I possibly can via the adjustment on the door side of the hinge, the front fender bolts are tight and the door still has to go out, so I guess I need to add shims to the cab side of the hinge that I didn't need before... common? The top back of the door is still out further than the bottom so a shim on the hinge will make it worse.

I did try the door twist and got it a little better but not good enough.

I did try more adjustments last night but made the overall picture a little worse so have to go and try again today.

On the back of the door at the latch, when it hits the second click its too far in but there is no slots on the striker plate, is it ok to slot the holes a little as a last resort?

One more problem I'm fighting is I think where the truck is sitting its just not level so I think i'm going to have to get it as close as I can for now then get the seat back in it and fired up, then move it to the driveway to see if I can get it better.

And I fess up Vic, I didn't go test fit the door before welding up the skin and its too short in the front, I had measurements for length but I musta marked something down wrong, well, too late now, maybe I can add some material later.


EDIT: I bought my cab mounts from Classic Industry's, and in this short time of install to today they are all splitting out, must be cheap Chinese rubber or something, any preference for quality cab mounts? May have to do that again eventually....

[7dee2]

Sorry to hear your doors are being a pain. We inspected ours prior to disassembly and they fit good enough for a work/4x4 truck so I didn't worry much about it. On reassembly they still about fit the same but with several hours of fussing on each side the end result was a little better.

I like polyurethane style cab mounts myself for that reason.

Keep at it Mike your making good progress.

[swamp rat]

Haven't had much spare time for the last 2 weeks, I gotta get back at it soon.

Somewhere along the way I recall seeing a lifting device that attached to a floor jack, I think I need something like that that will fit under the door and support it where I want it in the door frame then tighten the cab side mounts. Any leads?

Is there pre made shims if I need to space the upper hinge off the cab a little?

[NONHOG]

member MP&C I think showed one on one of his threads. (door jack)

[swamp rat]

Ok have a question for those in the know, I don't have any of the rubber door bumper ((round rubber)) and while to adjust the door it went in too far and now I can't open the door, I had it happen a couple times before but I was able to lift up and out on the door handle and was able to pop the door open, not this time. Any ideas how to free the latch? Maybe from the inside?? I have the front fender off right now. Sorry bout the pic's posting from my cell phone again.