|
08-02-2012, 11:13 PM | #1 | |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2011
Location: oakhurst ca.
Posts: 40
|
Re: Make it handle
Quote:
I am glad you posted this I was going to call you guys today to see if this was going to happen but i got busy now I dont have to bug you with a phone call thanks for the info |
|
08-03-2012, 05:47 PM | #2 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Turlock, Ca
Posts: 29
|
Re: Make it handle
Question for ROB:
Do you really need to have an offset between the upper and lower ball joints on your spindle(king pin inclination)? If so what is a good range to be in? Thank You |
08-03-2012, 11:18 PM | #3 |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: perth western australia
Posts: 127
|
Re: Make it handle
Rob,at the moment my truck has tubular bottom A arms(unkown make).
Do i need to buy both top and bottom as a set or is it OK to buy a set of tubular top arms from say CPP or the like ? |
08-04-2012, 01:28 PM | #4 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 2,367
|
Re: Make it handle
Hey Rob - have you gotten the rear anti-roll kits ready to go yet? Also, back on the shock thing.... What about us daily drivers that don't wanna spend a nut on shocks? What's the best commercial grade combo in your opinion? I'm leaning towards the Monroe Magnum, but is that the best choice for front and rear?
__________________
'77 K30 3+3 - "The Crummy" http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=640134 '67 C10 L/SWB - Soon to be daily driver! http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=471776 |
08-06-2012, 12:57 PM | #5 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Dandridge, Tn. USA
Posts: 2,226
|
Re: Make it handle
There have been a lot of spring questions lately, so here is some info. There are two ends of the 'spring' range when it comes to suspending a vehicle. You can use a stiff spring, it will have very little "static compression" (the amount of spring compression from it's free height to the comressed height at ride height), or a soft spring with a lot of static comression. You have to be carefull when you talk about static compression, becausethere are two kinds in play here. 1: Static SPRING compression, and 2: Static SUSPENSION compression. The difference has to do with the leverage ratio on the spring. I try to shoot for 5" of total static suspension compression as a starting point. With a coil spring, this would be 5" of suspension travel from a full droop position with no spring load to ride height. If the spring is compressed some at full droop, this must be added in.
This will give a nice smooth ride and good performance. Now here's the tuning rule. If your truck has a push (understeer), the general rule is to go softer springs and shocks with firmer compression. This may seam backwards, but it works. If the truck turns in great, and you have no tire slip, then you can go firmer on the springs, or a bigger sway bar. If the leverage ratio on a C10 arm is 2-1, which is pretty close, and the truck has 3025 lbs on the front end (4000 lb total, with 55% front weight). That would be 1512 lb per side in front. With a 2 to 1 ratio on the A-arm, that puts 3025 lbs of pressure on the spring at ride height. If you were shooting for 5" of suspension compression, that would be 2 1/2" of spring compression (2 to 1 ), you would need a 1210 lb spring. (3025 divided by 2 1/2).
__________________
GoodGuys 2012 Pro-Truck Champion 2012 Truckin' Throwdown Champion GoodGuys 2011 National Champion 2011 Truckin' Throwdown Champion GoodGuys 2010 National Champion Proud to put our products up against all others! |
08-06-2012, 07:32 PM | #6 |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: FI South Carolina
Posts: 125
|
Re: Make it handle
Hey Rob, I'm real interested in the shock talk. I have your fat bars and Romic coilovers on the back (90 chevrolet) and want to do something just as good for the front. I have considered doing a coilover on the front, with some fab work of coarse.
Would the extra work of putting a coil over up front be worth it or do you think I would be just as good with a stock style spring and a good shock? I'm also real anxious to see what shock reccomendations you and some other members may have!!!!! Also if you think the coilover is the way to go on the front, is the Romic a good choice for that? Thanks, Matt
__________________
My build thread http://www.67-72chevytrucks.com/vboa...d.php?t=494247 |
08-16-2012, 05:38 PM | #7 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: FI South Carolina
Posts: 125
|
Re: Make it handle
Quote:
__________________
My build thread http://www.67-72chevytrucks.com/vboa...d.php?t=494247 |
|
08-10-2012, 12:35 PM | #8 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Dandridge, Tn. USA
Posts: 2,226
|
Re: Make it handle
Check out www.socalchallenge.com if your in the area come join the fun.
__________________
GoodGuys 2012 Pro-Truck Champion 2012 Truckin' Throwdown Champion GoodGuys 2011 National Champion 2011 Truckin' Throwdown Champion GoodGuys 2010 National Champion Proud to put our products up against all others! |
08-11-2012, 02:22 PM | #9 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 97
|
Re: Make it handle
Hey guys, I have a question regarding the rear trailing arms mounts. I recently purchased the ECE rear drop kit (6'' springs, shocks + relocate and a track bar kit). I also purchased some trailing arm bushings, front shocks, 2.5'' drop spindles and NAPA replacement parts for the rest of the front end. I already owned 2'' drop springs. 4.5/6 drop.
So to my question. I recently flipped the trailing arm mounts on the crossmember over (upside down) as I saw on this thread a while back. I did this with the intention of regaining some of the stock geometry in the trailing arms with the 6'' springs in the back. My concern is that the trackbar will be set up/ designed for the trailing arms to be mounted in their stock manor and that my truck will track crooked down the road... Should I flip these trailing arm mounts back over to run this track bar? or am i worrying about nothing? Ps... good sway bar info on hear thank you.
__________________
Mike 1970 C10 swb step side... needs everything. |
08-11-2012, 02:27 PM | #10 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 2,367
|
Re: Make it handle
I would leave them flipped. Not sure what concern you you have with the panhard rod? The trailing arm mount flip should help with pinion angle and alignment after that drop.
Posted via Mobile Device
__________________
'77 K30 3+3 - "The Crummy" http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=640134 '67 C10 L/SWB - Soon to be daily driver! http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=471776 |
08-11-2012, 07:07 PM | #11 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Plymouth, MA
Posts: 891
|
Re: Make it handle
If it is the ECE track bar you can adjust the end to set your center on the rearend. Put the mounts on, set the truck at ride height, and adjust the bar until it fits in the brackets.
Posted via Mobile Device
__________________
1972 Blazer body...need to get a thread started for the rest of the story |
08-12-2012, 06:30 PM | #12 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 97
|
Re: Make it handle
thank you, it is the ECE kit.
__________________
Mike 1970 C10 swb step side... needs everything. |
08-15-2012, 01:52 AM | #13 |
56 - autocross
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Camarillo, Ca
Posts: 1,121
|
Re: Make it handle
Is there a certain amount of swaybar link angle that is acceptable? I know that many say that the link should be 90 degrees to the bar or bar arm. Is there any variation that would still perform?
|
08-15-2012, 09:10 AM | #14 | |
A guy with a truck
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Germany, for now
Posts: 5,920
|
Re: Make it handle
Quote:
Posted via Mobile Device
__________________
-Chris Instagram _elgringoloco_ '70 Short-Wide How to: Ruin a perfectly good C10 ‘70 Blazer ConversionHow To: Ruin a Perfectly Good 4wd '72 Highlander How To: Ruin a Perfectly Good K/5 (SOLD) '72 Blazer 2WD How to: Ruin a perfectly good Blazer (SOLD) '05 Yukon Daily Driven (not so stock) Yukon (SOLD) ‘07 Yukon Denali (daily) Members met list: SCOTI, darkhorse970, 67cheby, 67cheby'sGirl, klmore, porterbuilt, n2billet, Fastrucken, classicchev, Col Clank, GSFMECH, HuggerCST, Spray-Bomb, BACKYARD88, 5150, fine69, fatbass, smbrouss70, 65StreetCruiser, GAc10boy |
|
08-11-2012, 07:11 PM | #15 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: washington
Posts: 4,178
|
Re: Make it handle
Sounds like we need stiffer springs
Posted via Mobile Device
__________________
377 sbc thumpr cam autogear m23 muncie 3:73 Detroit trutrac 3''spintech prostreet mufflers xpipe 1 3/4 headers build thread !http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=577217 Iroc gauge threadhttp://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=554511 |
08-12-2012, 12:11 AM | #16 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Cherry Valley,Ca
Posts: 468
|
Re: Make it handle
Rob, thanks for the spring tutorial, I recently had to figure all this stuff out for myself but your numbers come up real close to what I came up with so I feel way happeir with the springs I chose for my front coilovers. Im stuck with 7" springs in my application so I ended up with 1300# springs. The total travel of the spring is around 4" so Im hoping for 2-2.25 of compression at ride height. The arm ratio is 2:1 and I figured about 2600-2800 #s on the front axle.
Anyways, the number seem to add up but I have a couple of questions I wonder if you could help me with. I dont have scales so the method i used for determining the weight on the front axle was less than precise, does 2600-2800 #s sound right to you? Also, what do you think the ride will be like with those springs? Thanks for any input. |
08-12-2012, 12:28 PM | #17 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Dandridge, Tn. USA
Posts: 2,226
|
Re: Make it handle
may be a little heavy. if the truck is 4000 lb total which is still a bit heavy, and 55% on the nose, thats 2200 lbs on the front, 1100 per side. ?? thats my base guess for most C10's. The Olds motor is a bit heavier, but only around 50 lbs as far as I know. With the short springs, 1300 lb may be needed. We won't have scales at the So Cal Challenge, but you can call and check our shop for a saturday, most times we have time to scale a car/truck in the a.m.
__________________
GoodGuys 2012 Pro-Truck Champion 2012 Truckin' Throwdown Champion GoodGuys 2011 National Champion 2011 Truckin' Throwdown Champion GoodGuys 2010 National Champion Proud to put our products up against all others! |
08-16-2012, 01:07 PM | #18 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Dandridge, Tn. USA
Posts: 2,226
|
Re: Make it handle
The goal is to get the links parallel to the line of travel. In these trucks, thats basically straight up and down. If your within 10* you'll be OK. If you have bigger angles, the forces start to push/pull the sway bar either forward/backward or sideways, this is a loss of sway bar efficiency. Also, baig bars will tend to snap the end links if the alaignment of the links is too far off.
__________________
GoodGuys 2012 Pro-Truck Champion 2012 Truckin' Throwdown Champion GoodGuys 2011 National Champion 2011 Truckin' Throwdown Champion GoodGuys 2010 National Champion Proud to put our products up against all others! |
08-16-2012, 05:46 PM | #19 |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: The Thumb of Michigan!
Posts: 39
|
Would really appreciate your thoughts on this Rob...
I don't mean to hijack the thread or take the discussion in a different direction, but I've got a question on the anti-squat characteristics for the rear trailing arm suspension.
I've got a '72 C20 that I am lowering to the ground with air suspension, and I am using a very different approach for the rear, that is, I 'Z'ed the rear frame 6" and added a 2" C-notch to the frame to allow the truck to lay frame on 30.5" diameter tires. Before I gave any thought to anti-squat, I fabricated a K-member in an effort to increase torsional rigidity and keep the frame square in the area where I did a 6" 'Z'. At this time, I planned on using the stock trailing arm pivot point. Now I am in the mindset that I should raise the trailing arm pivot points as high as I reasonable can, at the very least, flip the mounting brackets. This would mean altering the K-member, which is fine, but I'm wondering, is it neccessary? Bear in mind I am building this as a practical everyday driver, not a performance-oriented truck at all. Should I be worrying about the anti-squat at all? Appreciate any of your thoughts on this! You seem the be one of the most knowledgable people in terms of suspension design/geometry for GM trucks, hence why I am asking for your opinion. |
08-16-2012, 09:45 PM | #20 |
Truck and auto performance nut
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: McKinney,Texas
Posts: 3,848
|
Re: Make it handle
I'm confused....how would trailing arms work around that tubing you have tacked in?
__________________
Kurt - '68 GMC short step - NIB '09 LY6 6.0L crate motor w/mods, NIB '12 crate 4L85e w/billet 3k stall Circle D, 3.73 posi 12 bolt, DynaTech f-swap headers, 3/4 drop, handling mods, etc. - my toy '72 Chevy LWB C-10 Highlander - 350/350 ps/pb/tilt/ac - not original but close '06 Chevy TrailBlazerSS - LS2/4L70e - little black hot rod SUV - my DD '18 Kia Sorento - wife's econo-driver '95 Chevy S10 - reg cab shortbed, LS, 4.3, auto... my '68's powertrain and chassis build -links broken A surprise phase - carb to efi -links broken |
08-16-2012, 09:59 PM | #21 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Dandridge, Tn. USA
Posts: 2,226
|
Re: Make it handle
Looks good. I would flip the mounts, evev if it means replacing the two diagonal tubes with bent tubes. It will be worth it in the long run.
__________________
GoodGuys 2012 Pro-Truck Champion 2012 Truckin' Throwdown Champion GoodGuys 2011 National Champion 2011 Truckin' Throwdown Champion GoodGuys 2010 National Champion Proud to put our products up against all others! |
08-16-2012, 11:16 PM | #22 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: The Thumb of Michigan!
Posts: 39
|
Re: Make it handle
Quote:
Thanks Rob, I appreciate your input. I think I'm going to do just that; flip the trailing arm brackets and raise the diagonal tubes to clear the control arms. |
|
08-30-2012, 03:29 PM | #23 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Dandridge, Tn. USA
Posts: 2,226
|
Re: Make it handle
I'm doing a little research for my next article, and that took me out to Energy suspension. I have used Energy products for many years, but this was cool to see the place. I had an informative talk with some of the suspension tech's and learned a few things. Most of this will be in the next Street Trucks, but I wanted to share some here.
The goal of upgrading from rubber to urathane is to gain control over some of the forces that are pushing and pulling parts of your truck. With cab, bed, and core support mounts, the goal is to get the cab to help add strength to the chassis, and reduce flexing from bumps and corners. This may make the truck feel rigid and bumpy, but what is really happening is that you now feel the true suspension action. Engine and trans mounts will hold the drivetrain better, and deliver power to the axle with less loss. Torking the motor up takes power. Single rotation bushings, such as A-arms, sway bars and, leafs springs and trailing arms, are designed to limit any other motion, and act more like a bushing or bearing. Then we discussed different suspensions, and came up with a few surprising conclusions. We agreed that for any performance build there would be gains in using urathane cab, bed, core support and motor and trans mounts. I even tossed in the concept of a urathane 'coupler' that would bolt in between the cab and bed (more on that later). Again, we thought that the front suspension, and both front and rear swaybars should get the upgrade. Here was the surprise. We did agree that for a 'drag' oriented project, urathane in the rear leafs or trailing arms would be a plus, but after some thought, that this may not be the ticket for going around corners. The idea is that urathane would additionally restrict the axle from articulating in a corner. We would want the springs/shocks/sway bars to control that, and/or, let it happen. But, we do both think that urathane in a 4 bar is the way to go. Just some food for thought.
__________________
GoodGuys 2012 Pro-Truck Champion 2012 Truckin' Throwdown Champion GoodGuys 2011 National Champion 2011 Truckin' Throwdown Champion GoodGuys 2010 National Champion Proud to put our products up against all others! |
08-30-2012, 04:20 PM | #24 | |
I'm just glad to be here!
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Longview, TX
Posts: 4,788
|
Re: Make it handle
Quote:
I read your first two articles and looking forward to the next one.
__________________
Karl 1965 Chevy Stepside(Grandpa's Old Blue) and (July 2015 Shop Build!)(2020, the Saga Continues) http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=372424 The LST Challenge: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=1#post7812257 Korbin's 1st Square: "Sunburn" http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=418618 1985 GMC Sierra: "White Trash", Korbin's 2nd now... http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=632305 Henry - 1984 Chevrolet, Owen's 1st Square |
|
08-30-2012, 06:58 PM | #25 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Dandridge, Tn. USA
Posts: 2,226
|
Re: Make it handle
some guys in the circle track and road race groups havetried spherical bearings in the front leaf eye instead of bushings. This allows for spring articulation and full transfer of torque to the chassis. Urathane in the leafs will help at the drag strip, but will cost you on the street and autocross. I'm going to look for some poly-lined bearing inserts. - give me a few days.
__________________
GoodGuys 2012 Pro-Truck Champion 2012 Truckin' Throwdown Champion GoodGuys 2011 National Champion 2011 Truckin' Throwdown Champion GoodGuys 2010 National Champion Proud to put our products up against all others! |
Bookmarks |
|
|