Make it handle

[butchp]

Rob is there a picture of a good g frame for a 56 chevy truck that you could post. I have installed a 76 camaro sub on my extra frame and cnoched the rear, I just picked up the plates to plate benind the sub to the middle cross member, I just read on one of the first post on this thread about skipping the welds (2" weld skip 4") I was doing to window the plates to remove wt. Then in a post you suggested to use tubes 1 1/2 .120t to build 45 angles, is that w/ plates or without. Thanks for being on here.

[robnolimit]

Goats86, sounds like a good set up. Tires will quickly become the limiting factor. I'm a fan of the Explorer 8.8, lots of value there. Try and dig up some stock 1/2t front springs, and start out by swapping the spindles and putting full height springs back in. Check the ride height. This will lower the CG, but, will probably raise the roll center. The truck will feel more stable, but the higher roll center may add to the push givin your front tire. For some extra drop out back, try a raised front spring hanger. This will also help by raising the anti-squat % a bit. Try to make one change at a time so you can note the changes. - let us know.

[BMERDOC]

Rob! I'm back and almost ready to start on making more suspension improvements. I know I'll have to go back and read up on anti-squat, anti-dive, roll center and so on but I wanted to ask a question.
Your thread has covered bump steer. You mentioned heating the steering arms and bending them back down to correct bump steer. I have obtained a new set of lower cross shafts and intend to have them drilled at 90 degree intervals to obtain 1/4 inch increments for alignment machine testing (stock, 1/4", 1/2" and 3/4") I want to take my upper cross shafts to a local machine shop to have the holes milled so as to elongate the holes as much as THEY feel comfortable with doing (you mentioned 7/8").
I also have a set of spindles going to the scrap pile that I wanna steal the steering arms off of. I want to prep by attaching a string from the t/r end at the steering arm to the t/r end on the other side and measure from that string to the frame to eliminate tire size. Do you have any info regarding where the arm should be for "correct" bumpsteer?What is your advice on heating the arms? More along the lines of cooling...Do you like to quench or cool naturally?

***EDIT*** This coulda read a lot better than I typed it out but I think you get the idea. To simplify, Is the "stock" steering arm position a good base line to keep for experimental purposes or is there a better starting point? How do you prefer to treat heated suspension components?

[moregrip]

Wow....took me 4 days to read it all....holy cr@p alot of great info.......thank you!
Couldn't come at a better time.....I'm in the planning stages of a new build.....1973 C20.....going to do my best to apply as many of the lessons learned in this thread to my 8lug
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[cory d]

i often haul a couple dirtbikes in my truck so i can only soften teh back so much. i have an short square with a flip kit, drop shackles and notch. i have about 4-4 1/2" between the axle and frame with 5 leafs and the overload. I was thinking about removing the overload and 2 smaller leafs and then putting junk yard helper leafs on it. would this be helpfull and how much travel would i want before the helpers begin to be used?

[cory d]

i plan on getting 3/4 ton coils and putting my 1 1/4" bar on. i also need to find a rear bar

[cory d]

i guess i wouldnt be able to do that with the flip kit. maybe i can figure out a way to use helper coils. probably should have so many "late night ideas"

[cory d]

quagruple post

i had 5 leafs and an overload, i now habe the 2 long and the bottem with the overload. it rides better for sure and now its level. i think im bottoming out the longer shock i have on the back

[INSIDIOUS '86]

http://www.ridetech.com/store/1973-8...hq-series.html

Rob have you tested this line of shocks at all? You recommended fox shocks and they say these are them. Either way these are what I'm planning on running unless you have a better one in mind?
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[Wasted Income]

Originally Posted by INSIDIOUS '86

http://www.ridetech.com/store/1973-8...hq-series.html

Rob have you tested this line of shocks at all? You recommended fox shocks and they say these are them. Either way these are what I'm planning on running unless you have a better one in mind?
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I have a set of ridetech coilovers for the rear. My build is still in progress, so haven't run them yet, but they get really good reviews on pro-touring.com

They look to be a very high quality unit.

[BossHogg69]

Rob (or anyone else), do you have any thoughts on using ball joint spacers to make the spindle act 'taller' for camber gain?

[Mike Bradbury]

I don't have the Ride-Tech shocks but I have the Bilstein version. The important thing is that they are the mono tube type, they work very well and I am very happy with the performance and their ability to control the bumps and curves. Handles great for a big heavy truck.

[Wasted Income]

Originally Posted by Mike Bradbury

I don't have the Ride-Tech shocks but I have the Bilstein version. The important thing is that they are the mono tube type, they work very well and I am very happy with the performance and their ability to control the bumps and curves. Handles great for a big heavy truck.

LOL! I've never seen your setup before, but I like it!

I just finished mine up this weekend...

[gringoloco]

Originally Posted by BossHogg69

Rob (or anyone else), do you have any thoughts on using ball joint spacers to make the spindle act 'taller' for camber gain?

Curious, too. What about taller upper BJs?

[robnolimit]

Ok, sorry I've been away for a bit. SEMA and the fal show set have me runnin.

Yes, the RideTech coil overs are made by Fox. We use them, currently on the HellBoy, and they are a very good shock

The Bilstien is a nice piece. The 'inertia' valve is pretty hi-tech, soft at low speed, and firms up quickly at higher motion rates. This makes it a great all-around shock.

Ball joint spacers?? don't know. But, "Tall ball joints" can help. This effectively adds to the "camber gain", and may raise the roll center a bit. Lots of NASCAR hobby racers use GM truck ball joints because they are stronger than the car units. Check out HOWE racing or Speedway Motors.

[robnolimit]

Last week we swapped out our 'home modified' LCA on the JT for a set of Nate Porter's "Forward Lower" arms. I'm getting the picts together and I'll post up the info here and on the JT thread.

[robnolimit]

During the Scottsdale GoodGuys show, we went over to Dino's friday night 'get together'. Pretty impressive. A lot more trucks than I expected, and some really cool ones. Dino is a great guy for hosting this event, including drinks and food. Thanks again Dino, we had a great time. - Expect to see some picts in Street Trucks soon.

[robnolimit]

OK, SEMA and the Optima OUSCI. Boy did we see some cool $h!t. Cloud9, Snakebit, and many many more. Getting to meet some of these guys was a treat. So many great stories. The HRIA - a division of SEMA, the Hot Rod Industry Aliance, covers the Hot Rod and Restoration market. At their dinner, they made the announcement that the 'commercial sector' (trucks) was the fastest growing and strongest market. - nice.
Yes, we finaly got an Optima ticket!!!! There were 6 trucks at Optima this year. A clean 29 roadster p/u from Hollywood Hot Rods, that was non-competitive, and 5 C10's.
Chris 'Smitty' Smith beautifull deep red 67
Summers and Sons bad black 70
The Roadster Shop's orange and white 72
Hill's blue and white blazer
No Limit's red 69 HellBoy
We kicked ass. There are 56 competetive entries. The slowest truck placed 24th overall. Trucks finished 12th, 15th, 16th, 22nd, and 24th. Congrats to all of the competitors, they did a great job. I know that StreetTrucks will be covering this event hard core, so keep your eyes open.

In Pleasanton we finished 2nd in the pro class. I had some tuning help from Mike Maier, who won the pro class in his 66 mustang with a 29.647. I ran a 29.941 for second, beating Brian Hobaugh's 70 Wilwood Camaro 30.140. Mike had been driving the truck as well and on his last lap of the day, after competetive timing, he ran a 29.430 in the truck, making it un-officially the fasted lap of the weekend.

Last weekend in Scottsdale, a three way battle developed in the pro class. RideTech's 33 ford, Roger Burman's 'Crusher' camaro, and our Hellboy C10. When the dust settled, we walked away with the overall win. The lead swapped many times. We ran a 30.341, Burman 30.645, RideTech 30.687. A few C10's were there in the truck class, which was won by the Schwatz chassis 51 chevy.

Our win in Scottsdale nets us 11 pro class points, and sows up the championship in Pro Truck. Third time in a row, No Limit takes the National Championship.

[BMERDOC]

Great job on your evil plan to take over the world!! When I saw you hadn't been on in a minute I looked at the calendar and noticed what time it was. Must be the life!

[jimmydean]

Rob, I love the work you've done on HellBoy. We an impressive truck and great showing. Thanks for the facebook pics. You know how to put your money where your mouth is.

Who better to take handling advise from than the 3 time champ!

[theastronaut]

Congrats on the Championship Rob! You're a huge inspiration and this thread has really changed the direction of my truck build. I appreciate the time and knowledge you share with us here.


I do have a technical question; I'm wanting to make the bag mounts on my '66 adjustable so that I can change the pressure in the bag (spring rate) and then reset my ride height by adjusting the bag mounts. This would keep the same suspension height/alignment while being able to quickly and easily adjust the spring rate.

Would something similar to stock car/circle track adjustable spring mounts work? They would need to be shorter. Or am I wasting my time? I want to be able to tune the suspension once it's all together, not just have a bunch of pretty go-fast parts bolted together.

[robnolimit]

Originally Posted by theastronaut

Congrats on the Championship Rob! You're a huge inspiration and this thread has really changed the direction of my truck build. I appreciate the time and knowledge you share with us here.


I do have a technical question; I'm wanting to make the bag mounts on my '66 adjustable so that I can change the pressure in the bag (spring rate) and then reset my ride height by adjusting the bag mounts. This would keep the same suspension height/alignment while being able to quickly and easily adjust the spring rate.

Would something similar to stock car/circle track adjustable spring mounts work? They would need to be shorter. Or am I wasting my time? I want to be able to tune the suspension once it's all together, not just have a bunch of pretty go-fast parts bolted together.

The idea is there, but these may be a bit bulky for a normal bag install. Typically the lower bag mount is on a flat plate with one or two bolts. When I plan out an install, I start with the tire, and the ride hieght. Like this, Tire is 28", so the spincle pin is at 14". I want the lower rail at, say, 7", so the pin is 7" above the bottom of the rail, so I start there. Set the lower A-arm and spindle to put the pin 7" above the bottom of the rail. Then bag mounts. At this point I would look up the spec mounting height of the bag, and add 1/2", then set the bag mounting plates at that distance apart, at ride height.
For tuning, I use some 1/4" aluminum discs. I start with two discs under the bag on the lower mount. The discs are usually 3 1/2" dia with a 7/16" hole in the middle. The two discs make up for the 1/2" added to the spec height. Then its easy to tune from there, just add or remove discs from there. If you need more adjustment than that, your mounts are way too far off to start with.

[theastronaut]

Originally Posted by undr8ed

My $.02 on the adjustable bag mounts is it would be overkill. (Not that I'm not a fan of overkill!)

+/- ~1.5" from the bag's normal height (no pressure) is where the best ride will be. This depends on the bag, pressure, mount angle, etc. and I've also found no matter where I've put the sweet spot, I'm always driving just on the very bottom of that, lol

I would think air bag load rates and pressures you want to run would be more important.......

That something else I've wondered about- how does the bag size and design (bellows vs rolling sleeve) affect handling? I remember it being mentioned that bags naturally have a progressive rate; would smaller bags have a quicker rise in rate vs larger bags? If so, wouldn't smaller bags resist body roll more? I've already bought D2600 bags for my '66 since I will be towing occasionally but I've never thought about how well they'll work for auto X until lately. Maybe they'll be fine for a soft spring/big sway bar set up?

Originally Posted by robnolimit

The idea is there, but these may be a bit bulky for a normal bag install. Typically the lower bag mount is on a flat plate with one or two bolts. When I plan out an install, I start with the tire, and the ride hieght. Like this, Tire is 28", so the spincle pin is at 14". I want the lower rail at, say, 7", so the pin is 7" above the bottom of the rail, so I start there. Set the lower A-arm and spindle to put the pin 7" above the bottom of the rail. Then bag mounts. At this point I would look up the spec mounting height of the bag, and add 1/2", then set the bag mounting plates at that distance apart, at ride height.
For tuning, I use some 1/4" aluminum discs. I start with two discs under the bag on the lower mount. The discs are usually 3 1/2" dia with a 7/16" hole in the middle. The two discs make up for the 1/2" added to the spec height. Then its easy to tune from there, just add or remove discs from there. If you need more adjustment than that, your mounts are way too far off to start with.

Thanks for the detailed reply Rob, that is definitely an easier and simpler way to adjust the bag height. Less weight too.

[theastronaut]

Originally Posted by theastronaut

That something else I've wondered about- how does the bag size and design (bellows vs rolling sleeve) affect handling? I remember it being mentioned that bags naturally have a progressive rate; would smaller bags have a quicker rise in rate vs larger bags? If so, wouldn't smaller bags resist body roll more? I've already bought D2600 bags for my '66 since I will be towing occasionally but I've never thought about how well they'll work for auto X until lately. Maybe they'll be fine for a soft spring/big sway bar set up?

Bump for input on this?

[Wasted Income]

^cool idea!