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#126 |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: stillwater ok
Posts: 26
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Re: My caster mod (with pictures)
http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=42467
Reading this we should be trying to get 9+ caster on our trucks |
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#127 |
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Location: apple valley, ca
Posts: 2,670
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Re: My caster mod (with pictures)
Wow, 9+ is a bunch of caster. In my opinion, 7+ (max) is the sweet spot. We don't run huge tires on the front, we are limited to the old technology of our suspensions, and we aren't road racing. High caster numbers are not always a good thing. You start getting issues of increased steering effort at low speeds, and an irregular contact patch in corners when the suspension is under compression or extension.
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Check out my latest endeavor: https://roundsixpod.com My build threads: '55 Chevy: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=247512 '64 C-20: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=446527 |
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#128 |
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Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Cactus Patch So. Az
Posts: 4,749
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Re: My caster mod (with pictures)
With that much castor I wonder what it is like to back down the alley !!!
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53 TuTone Extended Cab 350 4-Spd 3:08 (SOLD) 53 Chevy Moldy pearl green ZZ-4 4L60E 9" 3:25 55 GMC 1st Black Mll (ZZ4) ZZ6 TKO 600 5 sp 3:73 62 Solidaxle Corvette Roman Red (327 340hp 4spd 3:36) C4 & C5 suspension tube chassis LS 3 4L70E 65 Corvette Coupe 327 350hp 4spd 4:11 78 Black Silverado SWB (350/350) 5.3 & 4L60E 3:42 2000 S-Type 3.0 (wife cruiser) 2003 GMC SCSB 5.3 4L60E 3:42 |
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#129 |
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Richmond,Va
Posts: 2,934
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Re: My caster mod (with pictures)
Yeah, 9 degrees is a bit excessive. 6-7ish should be enough with upwards of 8 being max for a street truck. There is such a thing as too much of a good thing.
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Nick Carter 1967 C10 Short bed Fleetside Project Cheap Thrills! 2WD C10 Modern/Performance Alignments Easiest Alignment Ever! |
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#130 |
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Harleysville, PA
Posts: 398
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Re: My caster mod (with pictures)
Enjoying this thread. Doing alignments at my shop, European cars always have the most caster and have the best highway feel in my opinion! I'll have to do this with my truck to get a target of 6 degrees
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#131 |
Moderator
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Location: China Spring, TX
Posts: 7,280
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Re: My caster mod (with pictures)
I have my entire chassis apart for powder-coating. Finding this thread now is great. I'm going to work on this mod this morning.
![]() With any luck I'll bugger it up enough to have to buy a whole new front end. ![]() Edit: I only had one locating hole 1-3/4" from one end not two. So I drilled another (opposite side) at 2-1/2". Removed the front lower A-Arm bracket and am heading to the store to get the allen bolt for the locating pin now. Looks like maybe I will have to trim about 1/4" off the rear side of the A-Arm to make it work though. I removed the rivet on the front a-arm bracket only as there is no pin on the rear of mine. No doubler plates either. and it has 7/16" u-bolts. Will have to upgrade. The rivet hole is 7/16" so I'm good there. Must be the older a-arm set-up is different, mine is a 64. Good thing I'm doing this, someone put this unit together and one a-arm shaft didn't have the locating pin in the hole and mushroomed the pin head some. It was about halfway in and out of the hole originally. Update: Have to go get Cobalt Drill Bit today. I have a smaller cobalt and it worked (I have a drill press). But not a 11/16".
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Master Chief, US Navy, Retired 1964 C10 Step-side Short Bed - In Progress 2009 2500HD Duramax LTZ 1948 GMC Panel 1956 Big Window Stepside 1953 5 Window Chevy Stepside 1932 Coupe New Seat Foam for Bench Seats? Last edited by The Rocknrod; 09-19-2015 at 12:14 PM. Reason: More info. |
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#132 |
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 1,302
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Re: My caster mod (with pictures)
I have a bunch of 5/8" masonry bits that can be used to drill these holes, I bought a lot of ten or something ... if anyone needs them I'll ship them out at cost + shipping ($7 I would guess)
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1968 LWB C20 / AC / Wood Bed |
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#133 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Richmond,Va
Posts: 2,934
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Re: My caster mod (with pictures)
I just remembered a thread that was up a while back. Bumpsteer will happen in a stock situation but be aggravated once the Caster Mod has been performed. This is a great way to help alleviate the situation.
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=620584
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Nick Carter 1967 C10 Short bed Fleetside Project Cheap Thrills! 2WD C10 Modern/Performance Alignments Easiest Alignment Ever! |
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#134 |
Moderator
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Location: China Spring, TX
Posts: 7,280
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Re: My caster mod (with pictures)
I'll buy a couple of those from you if you don't mind. I PM'd you also.
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Master Chief, US Navy, Retired 1964 C10 Step-side Short Bed - In Progress 2009 2500HD Duramax LTZ 1948 GMC Panel 1956 Big Window Stepside 1953 5 Window Chevy Stepside 1932 Coupe New Seat Foam for Bench Seats? |
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#135 | |
Moderator
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Location: China Spring, TX
Posts: 7,280
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Re: My caster mod (with pictures)
Quote:
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Master Chief, US Navy, Retired 1964 C10 Step-side Short Bed - In Progress 2009 2500HD Duramax LTZ 1948 GMC Panel 1956 Big Window Stepside 1953 5 Window Chevy Stepside 1932 Coupe New Seat Foam for Bench Seats? |
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#136 |
Moderator
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Location: China Spring, TX
Posts: 7,280
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Re: My caster mod (with pictures)
I bought a drill bit from these guys last Sunday - still not here...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Drill-Hog-11...item27fd254772 But I was able to drill a pilot hole with a cobalt bit on my drill press using a 650 rpm setting and using dry lube. The slower speed really made a difference in the cut. Mocking up the lower as-arm it looks like I will be doing the slight trim of my a-arm exactly like crakarjax did in his pics shown on page 5 of this thread.
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Master Chief, US Navy, Retired 1964 C10 Step-side Short Bed - In Progress 2009 2500HD Duramax LTZ 1948 GMC Panel 1956 Big Window Stepside 1953 5 Window Chevy Stepside 1932 Coupe New Seat Foam for Bench Seats? |
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#137 |
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Richmond,Va
Posts: 2,934
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Re: My caster mod (with pictures)
Just got mine back from the machine shop. I plan on doing some experimenting in my alignment thread soooo... Hopefully mine will be driveable again by Halloween so I can post the results.
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Nick Carter 1967 C10 Short bed Fleetside Project Cheap Thrills! 2WD C10 Modern/Performance Alignments Easiest Alignment Ever! |
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#138 |
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Location: China Spring, TX
Posts: 7,280
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Re: My caster mod (with pictures)
Cool beans.
![]() I drilled mine with the Super Cobalt bit I purchased. Put it together on the cross member and trimmed the a-arms as needed (not much). My current status is "on-hold". Been out of work - Put down, kicked around . . .
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Master Chief, US Navy, Retired 1964 C10 Step-side Short Bed - In Progress 2009 2500HD Duramax LTZ 1948 GMC Panel 1956 Big Window Stepside 1953 5 Window Chevy Stepside 1932 Coupe New Seat Foam for Bench Seats? Last edited by The Rocknrod; 10-14-2015 at 06:24 AM. |
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#139 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DALLAS,TX
Posts: 21,963
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Re: My caster mod (with pictures)
I originally drilled my lowers for this mod but ultimately switched to Porterbuilt lower arms for additional clearance w/the front bags. I drilled them to move the shaft .750" forward so the PB arms added .250" to that (1" forward lowers & factory uppers). I finally got my turn on my buddys machine & I'm pretty happy w/the results:
Left Right -0.7 Camber -0.6 6.4° Caster 6.9° .12° Toe .12° Rear thrust angle was -0.12° Not bad for a dually.
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67SWB-B.B.RetroRod 64SWB-Recycle 89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck 99CCSWB Driver All Fleetsides @rattlecankustoms in IG Building a small, high rpm engine with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive. It's like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar..... Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol. Last edited by SCOTI; 10-08-2015 at 12:31 PM. |
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#140 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Richmond,Va
Posts: 2,934
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Re: My caster mod (with pictures)
Quote:
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Nick Carter 1967 C10 Short bed Fleetside Project Cheap Thrills! 2WD C10 Modern/Performance Alignments Easiest Alignment Ever! |
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#141 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DALLAS,TX
Posts: 21,963
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Re: My caster mod (with pictures)
Quote:
That being said, the aligned set-up is the currently available Porterbuilt 1" forward lower a-arms so the lower BJ's are 1" forward of the OE location.
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67SWB-B.B.RetroRod 64SWB-Recycle 89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck 99CCSWB Driver All Fleetsides @rattlecankustoms in IG Building a small, high rpm engine with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive. It's like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar..... Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol. |
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#142 |
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![]() Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: apple valley, ca
Posts: 2,670
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Re: My caster mod (with pictures)
Excellent caster numbers, Scoti!!
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Check out my latest endeavor: https://roundsixpod.com My build threads: '55 Chevy: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=247512 '64 C-20: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=446527 |
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#143 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Richmond,Va
Posts: 2,934
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Re: My caster mod (with pictures)
I'm trying to gauge this before I hit the rack . Did you happen to print out your before and after sheet? Given input from guys who have done the mod it would seem that for every 1/4" the index is moved its worth about 1° of Caster. If your alignment was about 2.5 and 3.0 without shims before the alignment that would solidify my thinking. Not taking anything away from Rob because his track record is proven but I think we need to get away from the .75" measurement and start measuring from the end of the shaft. Anyone who has pre-mod (non-shimmed) specs could redrill their shafts to have equal caster once it hits the rack.
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Nick Carter 1967 C10 Short bed Fleetside Project Cheap Thrills! 2WD C10 Modern/Performance Alignments Easiest Alignment Ever! |
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#144 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Vacaville CA
Posts: 490
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Re: My caster mod (with pictures)
Quote:
Also - we are mostly trying to do this by moving the shafts. Now, I'm not a good metal guy (yet... I hope) but the guys I know who are, and who do it for a living, tell me that an appropriate form of cutting/patching/welding on the LCA to move the ball joint forward is very safe IF the guy knows what he's doing. I've only seen a few of our better fabricators doing this on this forum. What do you guys think about this? |
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#145 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DALLAS,TX
Posts: 21,963
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Re: My caster mod (with pictures)
I did get before & after..... But, while I'm not a 'pro', I directed my alignment guys & explained 'why' as we went along. I had already dialed in my stuff in the parking lot of my joint.
We started off @ -1.4/-1.7 camber 8.X/9.X caster & didn't even look @ the toe. They were freaking out how far from "spec" I was. But we got it dialed back to what I wanted pretty quickly.
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67SWB-B.B.RetroRod 64SWB-Recycle 89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck 99CCSWB Driver All Fleetsides @rattlecankustoms in IG Building a small, high rpm engine with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive. It's like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar..... Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol. |
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#146 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Richmond,Va
Posts: 2,934
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Re: My caster mod (with pictures)
It would seem that this has turned into a lot of research but I think the answers will be worth it. Any guy on a budget will be able to modify the stock stuff and make vast improvements on how his/her truck performs.
FWIW, my progress is slow but I work and research (watching everyone here) to figure this out. 1/4" of movement for 1° of caster is fuzzy numbers at this point but lets step that up one notch. If 1/4" is worth 1° on the bottom why not machine the uppers 1/8th" to have the extra .5" movement to equalize caster on both sides? Again, all research and little to no development at this point but I'm thinking. You would only end up shimming to equalize camber at that point. Then again you could machine the uppers down to equalize camber. Certainly, there is a time when all that machine work adds up and it may be worth it to pay the money for tubulars but then you are still at the mercy of the guy manning the alignment rack.
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Nick Carter 1967 C10 Short bed Fleetside Project Cheap Thrills! 2WD C10 Modern/Performance Alignments Easiest Alignment Ever! |
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#147 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Richmond,Va
Posts: 2,934
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Re: My caster mod (with pictures)
Quote:
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Nick Carter 1967 C10 Short bed Fleetside Project Cheap Thrills! 2WD C10 Modern/Performance Alignments Easiest Alignment Ever! |
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#148 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DALLAS,TX
Posts: 21,963
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Re: My caster mod (with pictures)
I can't do a pic but I know what was in there. I had 2x 1/8" shims in the front (each side) & 1x 1/8" shims @ the rear (again, each side). As expected, I was off (excessive).
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67SWB-B.B.RetroRod 64SWB-Recycle 89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck 99CCSWB Driver All Fleetsides @rattlecankustoms in IG Building a small, high rpm engine with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive. It's like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar..... Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol. |
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#149 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Richmond,Va
Posts: 2,934
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Re: My caster mod (with pictures)
Thanks Scoti!! You have provided me with a wealth of info. Given your before and after numbers along with the shims installed I have almost too much info to process. Now if this was my only job. From now on thats how I want everyone to report their results! Ha! I know your truck is a dually but its not far from getting us where we need to be. Soon enough we'll be talking about relocating tie rods and sectioning crossmembers and the lower crossshaft thing will be a non-issue because we'll have that part sorted. Between the math and the real world results its almost a done deal. If you can get your stock index numbers that would be great, if not then its no big deal. I have a feeling 67-72 guys will end up at different numbers than the 73-87 guys. Itd be great to get this down to 1/8" but frame and crossmember differences will be the end result. Someone will end up with a graph (probably not me) that charts this whole thing out and everyone will have the recipe to get their truck done right.
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Nick Carter 1967 C10 Short bed Fleetside Project Cheap Thrills! 2WD C10 Modern/Performance Alignments Easiest Alignment Ever! |
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#150 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Vacaville CA
Posts: 490
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Re: My caster mod (with pictures)
Quote:
Uppers back is a good idea, too. Before I found these threads I was only thinking of lowers forward cuz I also wanted to move the wheel forward in the well, mainly for cosmetics. Obviously, uppers back would negate a little of this, but I'd take 6 degrees over a perfectly centered wheel! |
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