Help a NOOB - A continuing saga

[fourspeedwagon]

Very good stuff here. First thing- get over to that shop and retrieve the $100 they offered to refund you. I’d say that’s more than most of us expected they would do. Take it and run.
Next, the tank- if you wanted to move it anyway, now is the time. No need to spend 150 on a new tank you will change shortly anyway. You can pull all those old tanks out (sell the selector valve) and get a blazer tank and run new fuel line. Please do this before mounting your freshly rebuilt Qjet or or will likely suffer the same fate.

If you can’t wait (to save up) and insist on using the old tank- I have been successful with the set that Eastwood sells. One of my cars, reproduction tanks aren’t made for so I pulled mine out and fed in a decent size length of chain and tumbled it around to knock loose the scale. The kit has an “etch” cleaning product to really give a good surface and then a special paint/liner that you pour in and roll the tank to fully coat. I have 24 years use since I did mine and it’s holding up well. Kit costs about $50. Again, this would be 2nd choice but not an awful option.
Also, as stated above- don’t worry about the exact carb stamping numbers. As long as they know what the engine is, they will sell you a proper carb and you’ll be good to go.

[bill3rail]

Clean out that gas tank or replace it. If the rust keeps coming you may never stop replacing fuel filters!

You can pick up a complete rebuilt carburetor for about $300.00. I would be tempted to buy one that was rebuilt and drop it in place.

If funds are tight, start selling off some of the unneeded junk that we all have stashed away.

[ncpetersc]

Originally Posted by bill3rail

Clean out that gas tank or replace it. If the rust keeps coming you may never stop replacing fuel filters!

You can pick up a complete rebuilt carburetor for about $300.00. I would be tempted to buy one that was rebuilt and drop it in place.

If funds are tight, start selling off some of the unneeded junk that we all have stashed away.

Carb is ordered! Paying a little extra to keep the one I have, and try a rookie rebuild someday maybe.

I may even have to see what can be improved with the current one to see if I can get it to run better while I figure out where to begin with my fuel/tank issues.

Got some scheduled R&R (hopefully) starting tomorrow, so will be on hold for a week or two.

Thanks!

[geezer#99]

Don’t keep running it!
If it keeps flooding it’ll be fuel washing the piston bores.
You could scuff a piston or wall.
Check your oil.
See if it smells like gas.

[ncpetersc]

Originally Posted by geezer#99

Don’t keep running it!
If it keeps flooding it’ll be fuel washing the piston bores.
You could scuff a piston or wall.
Check your oil.
See if it smells like gas.

Okay, thanks! I did sniff it a few days ago, and I think it did smell like fuel some. Thanks for the heads up, and hopefully saving me a huge mistake.

thinking.
1. Got to solve fuel/tank issues
2. Change oil
3. Replace carb

I just need a plan for #1. When I get back will get the seat out and look inside the one in the cab for starters, see how things look.

[bill3rail]

Originally Posted by ncpetersc

Carb is ordered! Paying a little extra to keep the one I have, and try a rookie rebuild someday maybe.

I may even have to see what can be improved with the current one to see if I can get it to run better while I figure out where to begin with my fuel/tank issues.

Got some scheduled R&R (hopefully) starting tomorrow, so will be on hold for a week or two.

Thanks!

Good to hear! A little extra to keep what appears to be the original carburetor is worth it.

Check youtube for Q-Jet rebuild videos. Watch s many videos as you can and find one that makes sense to you before you open it, then watch that a few more times.

Make sure you change that oil ASAP so it is not watered down with excess fuel.

Fix that rusty tank! Or add an glass fuel filter so you can see if it needs to be cleaned.

Bill

[slikside]

Another thing to keep in mind regarding q-jets, is that they were being updated and improved every couple years until they stopped using them and went fuel injected on everything (late 80's?). So if you're not dead set on original numbers etc., the later the date stamp, the better the carb...you'll read about that in Cliff's book that you bought. I used his book for a rebuild for what I thought was an original '72 carb, and it turned out the Julian date on it was December of '76...an improved version (don't remember exactly what they were though). Anyhow, you will find that book to be a great help when you do a rebuild. Digital camaras are your best friend at each disassembly step. When you go to reassemble it, you have a complete photo library to refer to.

Yeah, at the very least, pull and clean the main tank before pumping any fuel to that new carb you're getting.

You're doing a great job. Just be patient with yourself, and continue to seek the advice as you've been doing, and befor long, you will have a dependable, reliable classic truck to run around in, and the additional satisfaction of having made it so yourself!

[ncpetersc]

Hello again, well I got back from vacation this week and had a box from National Carburetors waiting for me. While that's exciting, I am not making much progress on my first priority, clean fuel. So I haven't even opened up the new carb to check it out.

Looking at the saddle tanks I figured I'd go ahead and try to get those out of the picture. Well the only way that's going to happen is by cutting the bolts apparently. It's mounted hung from the bed with long carriage bolts through little brackets on the bottom of the tank. So turning the nut just turns the bolt. I have soaked, and tried, and tried and soaked. No luck loosening them.

So for now, I am using a few things to justify ignoring them for now. I can't open the caps (wedged against bed, probably shifted at some point in time), but tapping on the tanks I think they are empty or at least close to it. Then there is the 4-way valve, that is clearly set on the main tank. I understand the valve itself could be suspect, but I think other things seem like more likely sources of crud.

Looking at main tanks, that is going to push $200 with shipping charges. So I would really like to make sure I need to replace mine.

Was thinking of small steps forward I could make, and thought I'd try to get the cannsiter type filter (mounted just after output of fuel selector valve). I started at the engine. Removing the fuel line from the carb (I wanted to take a look at the filter again anyway). Then I thought I would remove the supply line to the fuel pump.

After draining probably four or five mason jars worth of gas it is still flowing. I guess I have a good siphon going? Incidentally looking at what I drained, I am not seeing any contaminants.

Anyway, I thought the next step might be to remove the line from the sending unit to break the siphon. If I can fold the seat forward I should be able to do this without taking my seat out. But I have questions about it.

Stuck my phone back behind the seat to snap a pic. Which of these is the supply line? My guess is the larger of the two. And by disconnecting here, I should break the siphon I would think. Agree?

[Steeveedee]

Yes, the large line is for the fuel pump suction side. When I dropped my saddle tanks to completely empty them (there full of old rotten gas but I siphoned most of it out first), I had to cut all the bolts. They are J-bolts, but like yours, would just turn. I bought threaded rod and installed them with a nut on each side of the mounting structure at the top so that they wouldn't spin when I put the nuts on the bottom brackets. You can siphon most of the gas out of the main tank and then pull it (if inspection shows silt on the bottom) and empty it the rest of the way. There is a way to scour and reseal the tank if it is dirty, but I have never done it. Someone will likely chime in with what they did.

[ncpetersc]

I watched a few youtube videos of cleaning/sealing the tanks with chemical kits. Looks like a huge PITA. If I find out the tank is in bad shape I will replace it, just don't want to spend the money if it's not actually a problem.

I'll go carefully loosen the supply line I guess and hope it breaks the siphon so I can drain the lines and get the canister filter off.

Thanks Steeveedee

[dmjlambert]

Originally Posted by ncpetersc

...
Was thinking of small steps forward I could make, and thought I'd try to get the cannsiter type filter (mounted just after output of fuel selector valve). I started at the engine. Removing the fuel line from the carb (I wanted to take a look at the filter again anyway). Then I thought I would remove the supply line to the fuel pump.

After draining probably four or five mason jars worth of gas it is still flowing. I guess I have a good siphon going? Incidentally looking at what I drained, I am not seeing any contaminants.
...

This is good news, no visible contaminants in the fuel jars. maybe the problem is not as bad as it seems at first glance. I ended up getting a new fuel tank and sender for mine, just because I wanted to get the truck going quickly and didn't want to mess with the old tank. In the process i learned that taking out the seat and tank is not very difficult. Just 8 bolts hold the seat and if I remember right 7 bolts hold the tank. It is easier to lift the seat in and out of the truck with a helper, but not bad by yourself if you have some back and arm strength. There is a special tool for rotating the collar around the sending unit to take it out, but I just used some large pliers that I opened and placed against the tangs of the collar, and rotated it by hand it was pretty easy. So, overall, the seat, tank and sender are not bad to explore and just poke around and see what you have going on with it. Don't let it overwhelm you.

Originally Posted by ncpetersc

I have never heard of this filter sock. I assume this requires draining the tank somehow to remove the sending unit to have a look?

In this thread LockDoc gave use the part number of the filter sock.
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=434265
I have not replaced mine because the new sending unit I got with my new tank had a new sock. But I am glad to have that part number from LockDoc for when the time comes to replace it.

So how much gas do you have in the tank and how old is it? If it is reasonably fresh you could be fairly close to putting that new-to-you carburetor on and fire it up. If it is old gas, then that could cause problems. I'm looking back through the saga for mentions of old gas and didn't notice any.

I would think a filter sock that is in good shape, the inline filter by the selector, and the Quadrajet's own built-in filter should be enough.

[ncpetersc]

Originally Posted by dmjlambert

This is good news, no visible contaminants in the fuel jars. maybe the problem is not as bad as it seems at first glance. I ended up getting a new fuel tank and sender for mine, just because I wanted to get the truck going quickly and didn't want to mess with the old tank. In the process i learned that taking out the seat and tank is not very difficult. Just 8 bolts hold the seat and if I remember right 7 bolts hold the tank. It is easier to lift the seat in and out of the truck with a helper, but not bad by yourself if you have some back and arm strength. There is a special tool for rotating the collar around the sending unit to take it out, but I just used some large pliers that I opened and placed against the tangs of the collar, and rotated it by hand it was pretty easy. So, overall, the seat, tank and sender are not bad to explore and just poke around and see what you have going on with it. Don't let it overwhelm you.

So I loosened the supply hose to break the siphon and emptied the line at the fuel pump. Still didn't see much there. The I took off the inline filter just after my fuel selector, draining the inlet side the fuel was more rust colored with some trace particles. Going to try to pick up a replacement filter for that. I have my seat unbolted, and can get pretty good access to the sender with it moved forward against the dash.

Originally Posted by dmjlambert

In this thread LockDoc gave use the part number of the filter sock.
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=434265
I have not replaced mine because the new sending unit I got with my new tank had a new sock. But I am glad to have that part number from LockDoc for when the time comes to replace it.

So how much gas do you have in the tank and how old is it? If it is reasonably fresh you could be fairly close to putting that new-to-you carburetor on and fire it up. If it is old gas, then that could cause problems. I'm looking back through the saga for mentions of old gas and didn't notice any.

I would think a filter sock that is in good shape, the inline filter by the selector, and the Quadrajet's own built-in filter should be enough.

I was starting to talk myself into the same thing regarding the multiple filters. But I'll probably still try to take a peak inside and remove the sender to check for the sock. That's a cheap part at least. I siphoned 5 gallons out yesterday, only gas can I got, not sure how much is left the gauge hasn't worked since I've had the truck. Regarding that ring removal, something like a set of channel lock pliers work?

Oh and the gas should not be that old, I've filled up a few times at least since owning the truck. Probably about 2 months ago now last time though.

Thanks again dmjlambert!

[Steeveedee]

I've tapped on the tangs of the nut with a drift and a light hammer, moving from tang to tang to keep it more or less centered. It'll come right off. Make sure you have a lot less than half a tank or you may have a mess on your hands!

[ncpetersc]

Well, I have answers to a few questions I guess. Neither answer is what I wanted to hear, but that's par for the course for me.

1. I think I know why my gas gauge never worked.
2. Undoubtedly need a new tank.

Time to break the bank with a new tank, new sending unit, and probably the filler tube grommet. Ugh... $$$

My collar tool ended up being a Valley Forge Flag Co. product. Bottom edge fit nicely across two tangs.

[Steeveedee]

Yuck. I like the punch, though! I had a brass float in my truck, which developed a pinhole leak. Your pinhole is bigger than mine was. I had put a new sender in my '68 Skylark, but I got a tank out of a '69 that had the recirc line when I went back to Buick power. I ended up using that sender float in my truck. Just had to make a little bend to make sure it says empty when the tank is empty.

Your saddle tanks might be better off, maybe not. They are tough to look inside.

[ncpetersc]

I doubt they are lol. As nice as they would be to have if this was a daily driver or road trip truck, I am just going to ignore them for now, and figure out a way to cut them down later.

So I am ending up where everyone said I would end up... replacing the tank. I got the seat out, what a mess. Being short on space it will just have to live on the porch for a while in true redneck style.

Now I am looking at the tank, and how it is sort of "trapped" by the hard lines. I read through the removal procedure in the manual, and it doesn't really mention them besides disconnecting them. Do you just kind of carefully squeeze the tank by them trying not to bend them?

Thanks in advance, and thanks again for all the help/advice/moral support.

[dmjlambert]

On mine, I had disconnected the rubber hose from the hard line under the truck, so the hard line slid through the hole in the floor most of the way and got out of the way. In 1969 there was just one fuel line and the sender wire that that's all.

[ncpetersc]

Okay thanks. I'll look into it.

[AussieinNC]

Those hard lines will be as corroded inside as the tank is...trust me...

Various online suppliers carry them and the prices are minimal...compared to leaving them and continuing to have residue issues for ever....there is also a small length of rubber hose under the cab that you should replace..

Just drain the tank thru the sender unit hole with a flex hose...spray the back of the lower tank bolts with PB Blaster to make them easier to remove...

Then gently pull the lines out of the way as you and a friend lift out the tank...

Clean out the junk and dirt, paint the back wall of the cab in bed liner black...after checking the corners for rust...and yes there will be rust...

Replace the body seal for the filler tube,,,use liquid soap to slip the filler tube in easily when re-assembling...

Have fun young man

[ncpetersc]

Originally Posted by AussieinNC

Those hard lines will be as corroded inside as the tank is...trust me...

Various online suppliers carry them and the prices are minimal...compared to leaving them and continuing to have residue issues for ever....there is also a small length of rubber hose under the cab that you should replace..

Just drain the tank thru the sender unit hole with a flex hose...spray the back of the lower tank bolts with PB Blaster to make them easier to remove...

Then gently pull the lines out of the way as you and a friend lift out the tank...

Clean out the junk and dirt, paint the back wall of the cab in bed liner black...after checking the corners for rust...and yes there will be rust...

Replace the body seal for the filler tube,,,use liquid soap to slip the filler tube in easily when re-assembling...

Have fun young man

Fun? Well I sort of am, but I'm quickly getting in over my head I think.

I'll look around online for a set of lines. My hoses underneath are going to be different due to the addition of saddle tanks, but I guess I can buy that by the foot and replace.

Do I need to look at hard lines from pump to carb too?

Cleaning up I can do, but if I find rust then what? I am by no means a body guy, and this is getting expensive/out of hand quickly for me and my budget.

Thanks again for the continued advice. I have the filler tube grommet on order, do I need to try to get the grommets in the floor for the hard lines. Thanks for the heads up on the PB blaster for tank bolts.

I wish you were closer, I'd pay you for some expert help in a heartbeat.

[dmjlambert]

It is possible to replace every single thing on the truck that has any amount of rust at all. I evaluated the overall condition of my hard lines based on what I see from the outside, which of course is not possible. Boy am I full of boloney. :-) In the end, I decided if they were not leaking and flushing them out resulted in clear gas arriving at the other end, that would be good enough. Good enough may not be compatible with your personality, and that's OK. I did end up bending my own replacement fuel pump to carburetor fuel line because the previous owner had cut the line and added rubber hose and I didn't want any rubber hose on the pressure side of the fuel pump. A pre-bent fuel line is not available for my truck, which has the 1969 insanity air conditioner bracket. The other hard lines are original. I had a metal canister type of inline filter in the short rubber hose section right where it goes into the fuel pump, but a few months ago I removed it. I've now driven the truck for a couple years and the lines are still going strong and the built-in carburetor filter is working fine. When I pulled the old filter after going over a year, other than looking wet and being just slightly darker than the new filter I was putting in, and also not finding particles, I decided those hard lines must be just fine. I'm not saying it is overboard to replace the hard lines, there just had to be a limit to the budget for me (both dollar and time budgets). I believe driving the truck often, going through at least a tank of gas a month, is beneficial to the fuel system. If you plan to drive yours somewhat rarely, then all new fuel system components and completely rust free system is what I would suggest. That's my 2 cents.

[ncpetersc]

Originally Posted by AussieinNC

Those hard lines will be as corroded inside as the tank is...trust me...

Various online suppliers carry them and the prices are minimal...compared to leaving them and continuing to have residue issues for ever....there is also a small length of rubber hose under the cab that you should replace..

Just drain the tank thru the sender unit hole with a flex hose...spray the back of the lower tank bolts with PB Blaster to make them easier to remove...

Then gently pull the lines out of the way as you and a friend lift out the tank...

Clean out the junk and dirt, paint the back wall of the cab in bed liner black...after checking the corners for rust...and yes there will be rust...

Replace the body seal for the filler tube,,,use liquid soap to slip the filler tube in easily when re-assembling...

Have fun young man

Aussie what do you think about all this. And PLEASE don't think for a second that I am doubting your advice at all. But I think I get what dmjlambert is saying as well.

Would it be a huge mistake to leave the old lines for now? I'd have a new sending unit (new filter sock), an inline canister filter, and the filter in the carb.

I want it right, and really don't want to put a new carb on without a clean fuel system. Just wondering if you had any further thoughts. Or if anyone does for that matter. I am all ears, and want to do the right thing.

[AussieinNC]

I would not at this stage worry too much about rust in the cab corners,,,that can be tackled much later...

The old fuel pipes are a ready source of trouble and lots of mechanics have been bitten by rust flaking off and clogging the fuel system up.

The lines are not that expensive in the long run...just one suggestion ...please dont run rubber hose all the way from tank to pump as the heat from the exhaust system can cause lots of issues.
LMC has new pipes, as do many other suppliers...a new tank is the way to go if you intend to keep the truck...there are treatment processes you can perform on the old tank but they almost run the same as a new tank.

As for you paying me if I was closer...even if I lived right next door, I would never take your money my young friend,,,I have been working on cars, trucks, tractors and power equipment for over 55 years..its my pleasure to help you out...just keep us all up to date and let us know how you are doing...

There are many many highly knowledgeable people on this forum and its a pleasure to help out if possible.



.

[ncpetersc]

Originally Posted by Steeveedee

Your pinhole is bigger than mine was.

Just reread this... that was funny.

[ncpetersc]

Originally Posted by AussieinNC

I would not at this stage worry too much about rust in the cab corners,,,that can be tackled much later...

The old fuel pipes are a ready source of trouble and lots of mechanics have been bitten by rust flaking off and clogging the fuel system up.

The lines are not that expensive in the long run...just one suggestion ...please dont run rubber hose all the way from tank to pump as the heat from the exhaust system can cause lots of issues.
LMC has new pipes, as do many other suppliers...a new tank is the way to go if you intend to keep the truck...there are treatment processes you can perform on the old tank but they almost run the same as a new tank.

As for you paying me if I was closer...even if I lived right next door, I would never take your money my young friend,,,I have been working on cars, trucks, tractors and power equipment for over 55 years..its my pleasure to help you out...just keep us all up to date and let us know how you are doing...

There are many many highly knowledgeable people on this forum and its a pleasure to help out if possible.



.

Tank, sending unit, filler grommet are on the way.

Looking at lines I'm seeing at least another $100 for them, and am having a hard time telling if they are exactly right for my truck.

I guess the only way to do it completely right would be replace every steel piece for fuel and return lines? What about existing rubber portions? Obviously doesn't rust, and whatever residue there is would flush out soon enough? I'll just count on earlier and more frequent filter checks/replacement for a little while?

I'll have to crawl under the truck tonight to get a better idea of the hard line shapes to (hopefully) order the right parts. Unless by chance someone here has replaced them recently on a 1972 5.7L,in cab tank with fuel and return lines?

One good thing is that the truck always had a very strong gas smell in the cab, hopefully that magically disappears after all this.