Dug's 1959 Fleetside

[dug224]

Originally Posted by OrrieG

If the trans and crossmember are at the final heights it looks like a piece of plate will work.

OrrieG: If the pionion angles remain ok, I may be able to run a plate off of the bottom of the crossmember. The trans mount is pretty tall so this has a pretty good chance of working. dug

[OrrieG]

Can you use a shorter mount, like a body mount donut and put the plate on the top? You don't need a lot of thickness, just enough to cushion and allow a little movement. I assume the ears with holes are the tranny mount location?

[ricott]

I looked at my wife's 2007 Envoy Denali (V8/4WD) tonight. The tranny tailshaft (after the transfer case) looked to be the same as you have. The rubber tranny mount appears to be made for the bolt pattern you have on your tranny. The tranny mount sat between the tranny and the crossmember (on top of the crossmembe). Your tailshaft looks to low based on my wife's car.

[dug224]

OrrieG and Ricott: With mount attached to bottom of trans, all of the holes in the cross member line up with the bolts on the bottom of the mount if I could just move the trans to the rear. I took the crossmember off last night and turned it 180 degrees to see if I could get it further from the mount to give me some room. Factory leading edge of crossmember has a curve which makes putting a plate a little too close. The back edge is straight. Did not work. Crossmember holes to frame would no longer line up. I will do some detailed measurements this weekend and see if I can manage some sort of solution. I really want to use the mount since it is factory and cost me a few bucks. Maybe I cut out the top metal on the crossmember and weld it in closer to the front of the vehicle.

Also working on pinion angle. Invested a bit of time in trying to understand. Right now, the rearend yolk is 3.5 degrees off of vertical pointing up. The transmission is just the opposite at 3.5 degree pointing down. Based on ricott's comment, I will revisit this weekend. As an old mechanical Engineer I used to work with would say when something perplexed him..."...I don't understand everything I know about this...". Any good lessons on pinion angles would be appreciated.

I am not longer compressed air challenged. Picked up a slightly used Kobalt 80 gallon 3 cylinder unit last night. Will wire it up this weekend. It has 4.8 running horsepower stated on the tank. The nameplate on the motor says something like "SPL". Special??? No hp stated. Amp meter says it is drawing 17 Amps. Headed towards a #10 wire and will use and existing 30 amp spare I have in the panel unless one of you electrical experts (Ogre) stops me.

[ricott]

Looking at your pictures in Post 121 I think I see the problem. Looking at the second picture in your post #121, it looks like the indent on the crossmenmber for the exhaust pipe is on the driver's side. I was not looking at this when I looked at my wife's envoy last night, but I do know the rest of the exhaust system runs down the passenger side. I think you may have bolted the passenger side of the crossmenber to the driver's side of the frame. By switching sides, it shoud push the crossmember forward, which would get the bolt holes for the rear mount under the tranny.

The height of the tranny above the crossmember looks like the setup in my wife's v8 Envoy (about 1 1/2 to 2 inches above the crossmember). Since the pinion angle and the tranny angle cancel each other out, (based on your readings of tranny 3.5 down/pinion 3.5 up) I think you are good, you just need to get the crossmember under the tranny so it will all bolt up.

I can verify how my wife's Envoy crossmember bolts in tonight if you need it.

[OrrieG]

If you google "drive line angles" more than enough information comes up. Having the tranny centerline and pinion angle parallel looking from the side with some offset is the best case, universal joints need a little angle to work correctly. They can vary a little, problems occur as the angles increase and rpm goes up.

[dug224]

Originally Posted by ricott

Looking at your pictures in Post 121 I think I see the problem. Looking at the second picture in your post #121, it looks like the indent on the crossmenmber for the exhaust pipe is on the driver's side. I was not looking at this when I looked at my wife's envoy last night, but I do know the rest of the exhaust system runs down the passenger side. I think you may have bolted the passenger side of the crossmenber to the driver's side of the frame. By switching sides, it shoud push the crossmember forward, which would get the bolt holes for the rear mount under the tranny.

The height of the tranny above the crossmember looks like the setup in my wife's v8 Envoy (about 1 1/2 to 2 inches above the crossmember). Since the pinion angle and the tranny angle cancel each other out, (based on your readings of tranny 3.5 down/pinion 3.5 up) I think you are good, you just need to get the crossmember under the tranny so it will all bolt up.

I can verify how my wife's Envoy crossmember bolts in tonight if you need it.

I hope you are right. I was working with the crossmember the way I got it so maybe the guy who yanked the eng/trans may have put it in backwards. I just took a quick look. My exhaust is, in fact, on the passenger and if the indention is for the exhaust, it definitely needs to be rotated 180 degrees. The thing that puzzles me is that I did rotate it the other night and the holes for the crossmember to frame bolts (apparently) did not line up. I was more focused on trying to get the leading edge of the crossmember away from the mount bolts so I could fab a plate. May have been tired of being on my back. The trans mount holes favor one side of the vehicle so there is definitely only one way to mount it. I will under the truck tonight investigating. Thanks!

[dug224]

Originally Posted by OrrieG

If you google "drive line angles" more than enough information comes up. Having the tranny centerline and pinion angle parallel looking from the side with some offset is the best case, universal joints need a little angle to work correctly. They can vary a little, problems occur as the angles increase and rpm goes up.

Seems I was getting too much information on the topic and it got a bit confusing. I Googled your suggestion and the following link made it simple enough for me to understand. Thanks...dug

http://www.hotrodhotline.com/md/html..._harmonics.php

[dug224]

Sorted out the pinion angle and was able to get the crossmember modified and in place. Took a section of the old '59 frame and created the pocket and shelf for the factory mount to sit on. It is located on the front side of the factory 6 cylinder crossmember. The '59 frame section I used was not quite wide enough so I had to add about 7/8" to it so the mount would fit down inside. Got the transmission located and bolted the plate to the bottom of the mount. Had to use some nailpolish on the bottom of the transmission mount bolts to transfer their locations to the plate so it could be drilled. Installed the crossmember tacked the plate to the pocket. Welding upside down is not fun so I took it out and welded it up on the bench. Ran out of gas for the MIG so I will have to come back to weld the top.

The body is so low I had to cut the floor an additional 9" toward the rear of the cab and 6" wide to avoid the transmission and 5" diameter aluminum driveshaft. Planning on a hump out of a late model vehicle and center console to cover the floor cuts.

[dug224]

Additional photos to give you a feel for the floor cut and the relative location of the top of the transmission to the top of the floor. It is clear sailing for the driveshaft all the way back to the rearend once you get past the floor cut. If you look at the 4th photo where the floor cut meets the old floor hump radius, you can better see how far off center the engine/transmission is from the body. Will have the driveshaft lengthened next.

[Kim57]

Nice job on the cross member.
Kim

[dug224]

Found a rollover Buick Ranier (Trailblazer Platform) at my buddies wrecking yard that was headed to the crusher. He cut the roof off and cut it behind the front seats and let me take it home to see if the trans hump would work. My plan was to cut the hump (including the portion of the floor that the seats mount to) and the firewall (or partial firewall) and work it into the cab. I wanted to use the center console, e-brake and seats as well.

Here is what did not work:
1. The seat is WAY too high. Threw the driver's seat in the cab and my head was nearly touching the roof. Will need a seat that is about 8" above the cab floor for me to see out of the windshield. I would like a real simple seat with no electrically driven adjustments. Will start looking at small import car seats. The mockup of the steering column felt pretty good. Sitting on some low profile plastic crates, I am looking out of the windshield about about 3/5's the way from the bottom and can see the gauges nicely. Hate this did not work because the seats have integral seatbelts. Even when the seats were on the floor, the top of the back of the seat was a bit too high in the large rear window. By the way, the leather on the seats was still perfect after being in the weather for a couple of years except for some oil stains and the rusted out seat pan.
2. The distance from the seat to the firewall is several inches longer in the Ranier.
3. The hump is not particularily appealing asthetically. If I can't use the seats, it defeats the purpose of having this oddly shaped hump.

What may work:
1. Pedal assembly. The drive by wire gas pedal mounts to the side of the pedal assembly so the brake and gas pedal are a complete unit. With a little modification, this should work.
2. Steering column. Was concerned about the bulky look of the plastic behind the steering wheel as well as the distance of the back of the plastic to the dash. May have to fab a small filler piece to clean it up and hide the cast portion of the steering column case. Overall, it looks pretty good. There are 4 mounting points for the column so the bracket will be pretty easy to make. Will have to adapt an old steering wheel to the new. The cruise, turn signal and windshield washer controls are in one wand which is really nice. Will allow me to simplify the dash. With the new old steering wheel, the wheel mounted AC and radio controls will be deleted.
3. Emergency brake. The recepticle for the e-brake in the floor has all the mounting points for my frame mounted e-brake cables. I will cut it out of the floor and find a spot for it. Nice unit.
4. Trans. shift. Nice unit. Got the cable with it hat fits my transmission. Also has four mounting points so install should be fairly eash.

[ricott]

Well I sure hate to here the problems with the seats. You may want to check the mechanical seats out of an S-10 pickup or the electric ones out of a Blazer or third generation Camaro. All are substantially lower than the TB seats. I purchased a 2003 Trailblazer EXT that was a rollover. Got the complete frame and the cab body like you did (windshield posts and right behind the back seat). I had hoped to incorporate the bulk of the firewall and the floor pan into my truck to use as many of the Trailblazer parts as possible, so it is good to see the column and brake systems may work. The seats looked like the ones you have, and the carpet was in great shape, so I thought I was all set (uggh). I will be bringing the cab of the 55 and the TB frame home after the holidays. I plan to start a slow build thread then (the 58 vette will be the primary focus until finished). Have a great Christmas, and I look forward to seeing your progress in the new year.

Ricky

[dug224]

Originally Posted by ricott

Well I sure hate to here the problems with the seats. You may want to check the mechanical seats out of an S-10 pickup or the electric ones out of a Blazer or third generation Camaro. All are substantially lower than the TB seats. I purchased a 2003 Trailblazer EXT that was a rollover. Got the complete frame and the cab body like you did (windshield posts and right behind the back seat). I had hoped to incorporate the bulk of the firewall and the floor pan into my truck to use as many of the Trailblazer parts as possible, so it is good to see the column and brake systems may work. The seats looked like the ones you have, and the carpet was in great shape, so I thought I was all set (uggh). I will be bringing the cab of the 55 and the TB frame home after the holidays. I plan to start a slow build thread then (the 58 vette will be the primary focus until finished). Have a great Christmas, and I look forward to seeing your progress in the new year.

Ricky

Not saying it is impossible. If I get a chance, I will take a picture of me sitting on the seat in the cab so you can have a feel for it. You will have to at least lower the floor and/or seats somehow. I have plenty of room to lower the floor before it hits the frame but felt like it was getting a bit out of hand. I sat in a friends '54 the other day that had the exact TB seats. I will revisit him to take a closer look. They did not seem to high to me in that vehicle at the time. His truck is so perfect that I may have be awe struck and distracted. I will shoot some photos of his as well. Merry Christmas...off to Colorado tomorrow to visit 2/3's of my kids.... Dug

[dug224]

Had an opportunity to revisit the seat/floor/trans hump install. As I concluded earlier, I won't be using the Trailblazer seats. As can be seen from the photos, the seat control motors take up a substanstial amount of room and hang well below the seat. I stood up a "speed square" so you could see the relative dimension. The second photo is from behind the seat. Note that if the seats were the same height all the way across as the right side (passenger side), I would be using them. I need about 8.5" from floor to top of seat to fit. Dug

[dmack91]

Are all of the motors and crap that hangs down just for adjusting the seat front to back? If so, you could just scrap that stuff and find a manual seat track that you could bolt to the bottom of the seat.

[dug224]

Originally Posted by dmack91

Are all of the motors and crap that hangs down just for adjusting the seat front to back? If so, you could just scrap that stuff and find a manual seat track that you could bolt to the bottom of the seat.

dmack91 - They control all that happens in the seat...up, down, lumbar, front and back. Would have considered your idea until I reached up under the front lip of the seat and it crumbled in my hand due to rust. Piled all the stuff back I can't use on the frame and it is headed to the crusher. Got a bead on some manual grey leather buckets out of a 2003 Saturn Vue for $100 total. They are flawless, never been rained on and may fit with little or no modifications. Also looking at a set of cloth buckets out of a 2011 Corolla. They have been rained on a bit but are in good shape. - dug

[dmack91]

Sorry to hear they didn't work out, but that is the way things go for those of us that aren't up to buying new everything. Oh well, it just gives you another reason to go to the yard and hunt for more parts. That much more of a feeling of accomplishment when you find that item that works for you.

Keep up the good work.

[dug224]

Got the seats positioned in the cab. I will lower them approximately 2.5" in order to get as much of the seat out of the back window as possible. When parked, the head rests can be removed so they won't be so obvious.

I blasted the pedal assembly with my new HF 110lb media blaster. Worked nicely once I got the media size right. Used Black Blast (Coal) from the local supplier. Seems a little aggressive so I will revisit what I use when it comes time for the sheetmetal. Note that I had to drill some spot welds and remove the upper portion of the assembly. It would not fit and was not necessary. Used a self tapping screw and metal scrap to secure in place while I sorted out the steering column.

4th picture is of steering column. It is cast aluminum. Removed 2" from the end to keep it from hitting the brake pedal arm. I kept the factory steering shaft length and simply pushed the plastic housing (not shown) with integral bearing closer to the steering wheel. You can see where I ground down the stops on the shaft so I could slip the bearing down. The bearing remains on the portion of the shaft that is the correct diameter.

5th photo shows final location of all components. The range of tilt on the steering wheel is substantial. Had to cut the firewall 2" to get the steering shaft in line with the rack.

The photos in the next post are of the shaft through the firewall. There are universal joints at each end of the shaft. The shaft is collapsable and is constructed using two pieces that are "splined" together. Tapped the splined shaft apart into two pieces. Cut both pieces to remove a total of 5.75" that I needed to make it fit. Unfortunately, the splines were removed when I cut it so l will have to weld them together which I can do in place. You can see the slightly cleaned part near the firewall. That is the slip joint that will have to be welded.

[dug224]

Steering shaft through firewall clears everything nicely. Brake booster and master cylinder are next followed by bracketry for the steering column and then the mounting of the seats.

So far, the quest for a factory trans hump I can just weld in is not going well. May have to make one. Saw one out of a mid-90's Mustang that has potential. dug

[Kim57]

Looks like you're making good progress.
Kim

[dug224]

Mounted the brake booster, master cylinder and pedal assembly. The brake lines and master cylinder clear the engine nicely. Two of the the booster bolts (passenger side) ended up on a raised part of the firewall so I will have to somehow shim the booster so it is more flat against the firewall. The installation feels pretty soft. Will have to thicken the firewall and/or create some support to keep it from feeling so soft. The bottom of gas pedal is 3.5" above the floorboard.

Included a couple of shots of the steering column shortened. Note the 2 inch piece of the casting I cut off.

Also, inlcuded a before and after shot of the steering shaft. I had two steering shafts. The one on top represents the nearly finished product. Still needs to welded. The two pieces on the bottom of the photo represent what I started with. Ultimately had to cut out a total of 5.75" from both pieces to make it work.

[dug224]

Marathon weekend fabricating and installing the steering column. The entire systemed tightened up nicely with the struts installed from the main plate to the firewall. Used four bolts to mount the steering column casting to the steel plate. Welded and installed the shortened steering shaft. Brake pedal is unusually far from the firewall and way above the gas pedal. When you move your foot from the gas to the brake, you have to lift it up pretty far not to land behind the brake pedal. Will have to modify that later. On to the seat install next. dug

[dug224]

Began the process of installing my seats. First step was to lower the seats by 1.75". Did this by cutting metal from the back legs and welding the mounting plate back to the bottom of the shortened legs. Heated and bent the front legs to create flanges for two bolts. Turned out pretty good.

I cannot mount the driver seat until I fix the portion of the floor that I had to cut out to miss the high spot in the plastic fuel tank. I plan on draining the full tank of gas that came with the frame so I can remove the tank so I can weld the floor. The structural piece on under the cab on this panel was removed. It still interfered with the tank. Will weld the panel back in and add angle iron under the cab when I take the cab back off the frame.

The photo of the back of the cab shows the result of lowering the seat.

[dug224]

...more seat photos...