47-55.1 What's going wrong inside my 350?

[NeoJuice]

Sorry guys no update as of yet. I've had a bad cold this week of course when it decides to warm up a little. I think i'm on the mend to getting better just as we slip back into a deep freeze again for the weekend. God you would think this cold weather would let up already!!!!

I appreciate everyone who is checking in on my thread. This is a great forum and great community of people willing to help were they can.

Updates soon to follow.

[dsraven]

get better, THEN fix your truck. no fun working with a cold and you can't think straight anyway.

[58SkuzBukit]

I’ve only read a few pages, so excuse me if it’s been mentioned.

You talked about the TC not being bolted to the flywheel. There is a depth of TC to trans pump engagement spec that should be checked. If it’s too far in the pump, the TC could be rubbin inside the trans pump....

I have the same 350/700r4 setup and I had to shim some

Edit: or shim into the trans to ensure proper TC to pump engagement.

[NeoJuice]

Video of chain slack

https://photos.app.goo.gl/EmCepLopbfWSCgDh7

[DransportGarage]

Originally Posted by NeoJuice

Video of chain slack

https://photos.app.goo.gl/EmCepLopbfWSCgDh7

That's pretty much what you get as far as chain tightness goes. You're OK. If the engine has been drastically align bored it gets a little worse, but I wouldn't worry about it.

NOTE: (3/18/19) THE FOLLOWING COMMENT IS INCORRECT. Sprocket marks are at 12 o'clock and 12 o'clock when at TDC on a small block Chevy. See my comment #202.

Just as a comment: I've never set TDC on a small block chevy at 12 o'clock and 12 o'clock, but I seem to remember that on at least one 6-cylinder back in the day. It's always 6 o'clock on the cam for a SBC. I know times are changing but... The good news is, if your engine is 180 out, all you have to do is pull the distributor up and rotate the shaft 180 degrees.

[dsraven]

as mentioned before, if you find issues inside a fresh engine built by someone else then you may want to think about a total tear down and check. at least the oil pan and check some rod bolts for torque. if one of those is in the same shape as the cam bolts it could be spendy to fix if it throws a rod.
your truck, your money and time, your decision.

[Driver_WT]

Originally Posted by dsraven

as mentioned before, if you find issues inside a fresh engine built by someone else then you may want to think about a total tear down and check. at least the oil pan and check some rod bolts for torque. if one of those is in the same shape as the cam bolts it could be spendy to fix if it throws a rod.
your truck, your money and time, your decision.

I absolutely agree. There are way too many issues with just the cam gear to trust anything done to this engine. My opinion only.

Wade

[DransportGarage]

Originally Posted by Driver_WT

I absolutely agree. There are way too many issues with just the cam gear to trust anything done to this engine. My opinion only.

Wade

X3...but we were here earlier...

[NeoJuice]

Originally Posted by Driver_WT

I absolutely agree. There are way too many issues with just the cam gear to trust anything done to this engine. My opinion only.

Wade

I respect your opinion.

[NeoJuice]

Originally Posted by dsraven

as mentioned before, if you find issues inside a fresh engine built by someone else then you may want to think about a total tear down and check. at least the oil pan and check some rod bolts for torque. if one of those is in the same shape as the cam bolts it could be spendy to fix if it throws a rod.
your truck, your money and time, your decision.

Thanks DsRaven. This is one of those I didn't ask for paper work to actually prove that the work was done on the motor when I should have. So all I know is that this could be a low mileage 350 with some add-ons (cam, Cam gears etc etc) .

[NeoJuice]

Originally Posted by DransportGarage

That's pretty much what you get as far as chain tightness goes. You're OK. If the engine has been drastically align bored it gets a little worse, but I wouldn't worry about it.

Just as a comment: I've never set TDC on a small block chevy at 12 o'clock and 12 o'clock, but I seem to remember that on at least one 6-cylinder back in the day. It's always 6 o'clock on the cam for a SBC. I know times are changing but... The good news is, if your engine is 180 out, all you have to do is pull the distributor up and rotate the shaft 180 degrees.

Ok I wont worry about the slack on the chain if that is normal.

[Black_Sheep]

If the crank gear dot is at 12 o'clock and the cam gear is also at 12 o clock, rotate the crank one complete revolution, the crank gear will be at 12 again and the cam gear will be at 6.

[NeoJuice]

Originally Posted by Black_Sheep

If the crank gear dot is at 12 o'clock and the cam gear is also at 12 o clock, rotate the crank one complete revolution, the crank gear will be at 12 again and the cam gear will be at 6.

This is correct. I did turn the engine so that the cam was at 6 and crank 12 to line up the gears properly.

After I installed the chain I turned the motor to TDC on #1 so it was back to 12 cam, 12 crank. This is the way it was before I removed the old gears. As I mentioned I removed the distributor cap and the rotor was pointing at #1 with crank 12 cam 12.

So are you saying that my distributor is 180 out? I'm confused.

Initially before removing the balancer I turned the motor over by hand & stuck my finger in the #1 hole and turned the crank over by hand until it blasted strong air against my finger then lined up the marker on the dampener to 0 degrees. This is when I started disassembly. When removing the timing chain cover the marks were cam 12, crank 12. So that should be TDC on #1.

[NeoJuice]

Originally Posted by NeoJuice

This is correct. I did turn the engine so that the cam was at 6 and crank 12 to line up the gears properly.

After I installed the chain I turned the motor to TDC on #1 so it was back to 12 cam, 12 crank. This is the way it was before I removed the old gears. As I mentioned I removed the distributor cap and the rotor was pointing at #1 with crank 12 cam 12.

So are you saying that my distributor is 180 out? I'm confused.

Initially before removing the balancer I turned the motor over by hand & stuck my finger in the #1 hole and turned the crank over by hand until it blasted strong air against my finger then lined up the marker on the dampener to 0 degrees. This is when I started disassembly. When removing the timing chain cover the marks were cam 12, crank 12. So that should be TDC on #1.

Ok now I'm a little confused. I think every video I watched online everyone talks about lining up the dots to install the new chain but they never mention anything about setting the engine to TDC on #1 before starting the job.

Well yes I did do that, my marks were at 12 cam & 12 crank with the rotor pointing at #1 cylinder before starting the job. I then turned the motor to line up the dots crank 12, cam 6 then when finished installing the new chain I cranked the engine over to TDC on #1 putting it back to crank 12, cam 12.

So when you say that my distributor is out of wack that would mean that I would need to

-remove the chain
-pull the distributor
-Turn the cam gear/cam until the lines match at cam 6 and crank 12
-Reinstall the chain
-Drop in the distributor to point to #1 cylinder.

I just want to clarify this before I put everything back together. As I mentioned that when my finger gets blown out the #1 hole the cam is at 12 and crank 12.

Any help would be appreciated. Sorry in a little bit of a panic state that this was wrong to begin with from the previous owner.

[DransportGarage]

Originally Posted by NeoJuice

Ok now I'm a little confused. I think every video I watched online everyone talks about lining up the dots to install the new chain but they never mention anything about setting the engine to TDC on #1 before starting the job.

Well yes I did do that, my marks were at 12 cam & 12 crank with the rotor pointing at #1 cylinder before starting the job. I then turned the motor to line up the dots crank 12, cam 6 then when finished installing the new chain I cranked the engine over to TDC on #1 putting it back to crank 12, cam 12.

So when you say that my distributor is out of wack that would mean that I would need to

-remove the chain
-pull the distributor
-Turn the cam gear/cam until the lines match at cam 6 and crank 12
-Reinstall the chain
-Drop in the distributor to point to #1 cylinder.

I just want to clarify this before I put everything back together. As I mentioned that when my finger gets blown out the #1 hole the cam is at 12 and crank 12.

Any help would be appreciated. Sorry in a little bit of a panic state that this was wrong to begin with from the previous owner.

NOTE: (3/18/19) THE FOLLOWING COMMENT IS INCORRECT. Sprocket marks are at 12 o'clock and 12 o'clock when at TDC on a small block Chevy. See my comment #202.

1) Put the dots close together: Crank at 12, cam at 6. 2) Put the distributor at TDC. You're done.

[NeoJuice]

Just talked with my cousin who's a mechanic and he said I'm all good.

12 & 12 is fine as long as my rotor is pointing at piston #1 (which it is). He said I can check it by turning the motor over and if at crank 12 cam 6 the rotor is pointing at #6 then everything is good.

I will double check before putting things back together.

[Black_Sheep]

Originally Posted by NeoJuice

This is correct. I did turn the engine so that the cam was at 6 and crank 12 to line up the gears properly.

After I installed the chain I turned the motor to TDC on #1 so it was back to 12 cam, 12 crank. This is the way it was before I removed the old gears. As I mentioned I removed the distributor cap and the rotor was pointing at #1 with crank 12 cam 12.

So are you saying that my distributor is 180 out? I'm confused.

Initially before removing the balancer I turned the motor over by hand & stuck my finger in the #1 hole and turned the crank over by hand until it blasted strong air against my finger then lined up the marker on the dampener to 0 degrees. This is when I started disassembly. When removing the timing chain cover the marks were cam 12, crank 12. So that should be TDC on #1.

Installing the gears with the dots properly positioned only indicates that the cam and crank are properly phased with each other, it has nothing to do with the distributor. Having the rotor pointing at #1 with both dots at 12 o clock could be purely coincidental.

[NeoJuice]

What do you think those gears are worth used? I'm going to try and sell it to try recover some of my costs.

[NeoJuice]

OK I got out in the garage for my 5 minutes today. First thing I tried was to loosen the first 5 bolts on each side of the oil pan about 1/4'. I figured this might be enough from what I'm read online.

Well I'll tell you that pan will not budge. The oil pan that's on the truck is a thick aluminum pan and there is no give what's so ever probably compared to a stock metal pan. I carefully tried to stick a flat head screw driver on each side into the front of the pan to even try and move it a 1/16' and it's not moving. I suspect because of the thick aluminum style pan.

I've read that the pre-75 350 has a thinner front timing chain cover seal. Would maybe switching to this type of seal help me get the timing chain cover on? I've also read online of guys filling the chain cover seal area with Permatex and then sticking it on hence making there own gasket. Of course I dont want any leaks but if possible changing to the thinner gasket might help?

I dont know why they made the seal so damm thick as well as to long to fit on the pan lip. I know they want it to be tight but even just trying to fit the seal in there on the edge by itself it buckles. I compared the old gasket that was on there to the new and there both the same size.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.

[DransportGarage]

Originally Posted by NeoJuice

OK I got out in the garage for my 5 minutes today. First thing I tried was to loosen the first 5 bolts on each side of the oil pan about 1/4'. I figured this might be enough from what I'm read online.

Well I'll tell you that pan will not budge. The oil pan that's on the truck is a thick aluminum pan and there is no give what's so ever probably compared to a stock metal pan. I carefully tried to stick a flat head screw driver on each side into the front of the pan to even try and move it a 1/16' and it's not moving. I suspect because of the thick aluminum style pan.

I've read that the pre-75 350 has a thinner front timing chain cover seal. Would maybe switching to this type of seal help me get the timing chain cover on? I've also read online of guys filling the chain cover seal area with Permatex and then sticking it on hence making there own gasket. Of course I dont want any leaks but if possible changing to the thinner gasket might help?

I dont know why they made the seal so damm thick as well as to long to fit on the pan lip. I know they want it to be tight but even just trying to fit the seal in there on the edge by itself it buckles. I compared the old gasket that was on there to the new and there both the same size.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.

You said "any thoughts or suggestions...", so here goes. (My credibility is shot anyway after the timing chain advice! )

You are trying something I would not try because I would end up with one of two things: 1) a small leak, or 2) a large leak. I'd remove the pan, clean it and the block, and re-install after the TC cover is on. (...and, of course, check all torqued bolts, including the oil pump bolt, inspect a rod bearing, and would make sure the sump is tight on the pump and somewhere near the bottom of the pan. You'll be able to see your cam lobes too, to be sure they're not rounded off.)

Also, the diecast aluminum pan will break before it bends.

That said, I believe folks have had luck not dropping the pan entirely, so I'll listen to any success stories.

[NeoJuice]

Thanks for the input Bob. I guess I know what I have to do.

[NeoJuice]

I know I haven't posted an update in a while. I had a friend come over to help yesterday to set the carb and the timing. Currently running 10-12 vacuum and 32 degrees total timing and 10 degrees base timing. My buddy not only used his timing light but also brought a vacuum gauge with him.

New issues are the truck burped twice and threw up all the coolant all over the ground twice. The current idle temp at idle warm temp is about 210 according to my gauge but if you rev the motor up it cools down to about 185. The fan is kicking on at 185 when it should but my buddy thinks that I need a smaller water pump pulley to make it spin faster to keep the temp down.

Also I have no brake pedal I have to pump, pump, pump to build up some pressure to make the brakes work. So that issue need to be resolved.

I'm not sure what psi cap is on the rad if that makes a difference. After the truck was cooling down there was a consistent hissss from the rad cap. Even though we re-filled the water level to just above the fins my overflow bottle was almost full. After checking it this morning it didn't suck any of the fluid back into the rad. So I'm not sure what is going on there and it might need a lower psi rad cap and not sure what PSI cap is on the rad currently.

Even through all these issues I'm getting closer to driving it. Well I did drive it yesterday for the first time and turned it around in the drive way and it went into gear properly so that's a good sign. My buddy thought that turning it around in the driveway and changing the angle of the truck might burp the last of the air out of the system i'm not sure that happened yet.

Here is the small video of the tuning. Also i'm not sure of the manual mustang II steering yet. It was a ***** to turn the wheel at slow speed. So it might be getting a power steering upgrade sometime soon.

So much quieter with the edelbrock double roller timing chain then the Pete Jackson timing gears. I love the sound of the truck now and I can actually hear the exhaust.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/wVPWz9fjaGRLeQYD8

[DransportGarage]

Originally Posted by NeoJuice

I know I haven't posted an update in a while. I had a friend come over to help yesterday to set the carb and the timing. Currently running 10-12 vacuum and 32 degrees total timing and 10 degrees base timing. My buddy not only used his timing light but also brought a vacuum gauge with him.

New issues are the truck burped twice and threw up all the coolant all over the ground twice. The current idle temp at idle warm temp is about 210 according to my gauge but if you rev the motor up it cools down to about 185. The fan is kicking on at 185 when it should but my buddy thinks that I need a smaller water pump pulley to make it spin faster to keep the temp down.

Also I have no brake pedal I have to pump, pump, pump to build up some pressure to make the brakes work. So that issue need to be resolved.

I'm not sure what psi cap is on the rad if that makes a difference. After the truck was cooling down there was a consistent hissss from the rad cap. Even though we re-filled the water level to just above the fins my overflow bottle was almost full. After checking it this morning it didn't suck any of the fluid back into the rad. So I'm not sure what is going on there and it might need a lower psi rad cap and not sure what PSI cap is on the rad currently.

Even through all these issues I'm getting closer to driving it. Well I did drive it yesterday for the first time and turned it around in the drive way and it went into gear properly so that's a good sign. My buddy thought that turning it around in the driveway and changing the angle of the truck might burp the last of the air out of the system i'm not sure that happened yet.

Here is the small video of the tuning. Also i'm not sure of the manual mustang II steering yet. It was a ***** to turn the wheel at slow speed. So it might be getting a power steering upgrade sometime soon.

So much quieter with the edelbrock double roller timing chain then the Pete Jackson timing gears. I love the sound of the truck now and I can actually hear the exhaust.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/wVPWz9fjaGRLeQYD8

Sounds very nice!

The diameter of the water pump pulley should be fine, considering the temps you are talking about. Water/anti-freeze mix boils at about 212, and you can add 3 degrees of psi for every pound of pressure you are holding. So, if you have a 12 psi cap your coolant won't boil until about 248 degrees. I can't tell from here how much pressure is in the system while it is hissing, but if it hisses until all of the pressure is out, you have a bad cap or debris under the cap or an uneven surface under the cap, prohibiting the cap from sealing. I'd start by trying a different cap. That would also explain why you're not sucking fluid out of the overflow bottle during cool-down. It's sucking air instead.

On the brakes, start by bleeding them again to see if you can get some pedal.

[dsraven]

old rads had taller upper tanks that were basically a surge tank. they were filled and any higher levels of coolant simply burped out until they found their own level. the newer rads have shorter top tanks and use an overflow or surge tank. the old rads were sized for the system so the top tank was big enough for the amount of heat and expansion of the fluid in order to store enough coolant for the engine size and heat generation. the newer ones size the surge tank accordingly. how big is your surge tank?

[NeoJuice]

Thought I would post a video update. Still working on my brake issue but hopefully that will be resolved this weekend. Sounds pretty mean for a single exhaust.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/BCa9hN5qPyCJ6zU37