![]() |
![]() |
#126 | |
Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Godley, TX
Posts: 17,963
|
Re: Complete T5 swap thread - one way to skin the cat
Quote:
Below is an rpm comparison for you with your prospective T5's specs (and 29" tire). My T5 had a 3.97 1st gear with a 3.73, so almost the same final drive ratio for 1st gear. This was a BIG concern for me, but it turned out to be not that big of a deal. I could start off in 2nd, but for me personally, 1st gear is what I normally used - I had to shift pretty soon after starting - about 3/4 of the way thru a big intersection, for example, but it was ok for me. For your tastes, you'll have to judge for yourself, but it was less of a problem than I thought it would be. I'm not sure which bell housing index ring is stock for a 68 - but if it is the large one, you can use one of these to correct the problem (i.e. the good news is that the T5 has the smaller dia, so you can adapt): http://www.advanceadapters.com/produ...-down-to-4686/ (it's an index ring reducer from Advance Adapters - $25). I bought a new stock flywheel for the engine I was putting it onto (a 283 in my case). Probably need to have someone confirm that your I6 has the same or both bolt patterns on its flywheel before buying. An I6 guy on here could probably answer that - I don't want to say that the Astro Van pressure plate will bolt directly to the stock I6 fly if I'm not sure of it. it is NOT the case that you should buy a flywheel to match what the trans came from - that's not relevant. The key is two-fold: a) the flywheel must be able to bolt to your crank, and b) the pressure plate you buy must be able to bolt to your flywheel (and the clutch disk and release bearing should be matched to the pressure plate - that's why I recommend a kit) The spacer plate you posted a link to is a nice one. This one also works (and the Vintage Metalworks guy is very helpful and informative if you have specific application questions): http://vintagemetalworks.blogspot.co...ter-plate.html My advice: might consider continue searching for a different T5 (if you choose the T5 route), because the .86 o/d is not a lot of bang for the buck (BUT, keep in mind that a 3.42 is already a very highway friendly cruising gear, so this might not be a bad thing after all....). While the 4.03 1st gear doesn't sound ideal, it's doable with a 3.42 rear gear. What you have will work - but I'd only do it if you are comfortable with the 1st gear and cruising rpms you see in the table below. However, if you plan on hot-doggin the future LS at all, I'd also recommend skipping the non-WC (or even a WC) T5 and save the 1-time pennies for a TKO. Any T5 won't last long if you like to dump the clutch and do burnouts. Hope that helps! |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#127 |
Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Godley, TX
Posts: 17,963
|
Re: Complete T5 swap thread - one way to skin the cat
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#128 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 1,927
|
Re: Complete T5 swap thread - one way to skin the cat
To Jocko and all who read this wonderful post.
A friendly word of warning, SOME OF THE POPULAR T5 INTERNET SITES ARE STILL FULL OF INACCURATE INFORMATION. As for me, I'm totally sold on the idea of putting a T5 in my 1965 C10 with a 3.73 rear. Yesterday, I went to the salvage yard and pulled a T5 from a 1989 GMC15. Info that I had from the internet confirmed that it had the gearing I wanted. Unfortunately, I've come to learn that the internet info is VERY UNRELIABLE when it comes to telling you what the gears inside are. A majority of the websites said the tranny I had pulled had a 3.76 1st gear and a 0.72 OD gear. WRONG. Got it home, opened it up and spun the tailshaft a full turn and watched the input shaft turn a good bit more than 3/4 turn. So I actually have a 0.86 OD and that just will not be good enough for my 3.73 rear. I can return the tranny and get a refund. I wasted some time but I got some experience and knowledge along the way. Just trying to help my fellow truck owners so they can be spared from the same frustration. ![]()
__________________
My 65 C10 build: www.lugnutz65chevystepside.weebly.com Want to know more about T5 transmissions? My website has a T5 Info Page and a Step by Step T5 rebuild. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#129 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: AL
Posts: 209
|
Re: Complete T5 swap thread - one way to skin the cat
Thanks for the follow-up Jocko, you've been a big help with all your posts and along with the How To for your experience
I was able to source a Camaro T5 main case with the .73 OD and a S10 rear shaft so that is the route I am going and believe the improved OD is going to work out well for my motor and gear setup. As Jocko mentioned .86 is almost not worth the trouble and another option I found was a .63 OD but the rpm would have been too low at legal cruising speeds for a carb'd motor to avoid stuttering I have been working behind the scenes with Lugnutz and we have both contacted some very knowledgeable people with a lot of accurate data under their belt from swaps and conducting business around the T5 So what Lugnutz says is true, just do your due diligence and research and you will be able to weed out the Lies from the Facts. I now know too much about T5's |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#130 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Sidney,b.c.
Posts: 4,425
|
Re: Complete T5 swap thread - one way to skin the cat
Quote:
ron |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#131 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 1,927
|
Re: Complete T5 swap thread - one way to skin the cat
Quote:
Each tranny has an ID tag. The tranny I pulled had all the proper tags and they were readable. That is the BEST way to identify a tranny. However, several VERY popular links on the internet gave INCORRECT gearing ratio information when I matched up the ID tag with their charts. Bottom line, VERIFY EVERYTHING by CHECKING THINGS YOURSELF. Some guy says he has a tranny for sale with such and such gearing. Fine. He's probably basing his information on one of the websites I used AND HE COULD BE WRONG. That will be true for eBay, CL, or a swap meet. Just imagine how frustrated I'd be after installing my tranny if I had not found out the TRUE gear ratio. I'd have wasted big money and time all because of misinformation. Just be sure to verify everything yourself, and not based on some website chart. Am I preaching? Yep! ![]()
__________________
My 65 C10 build: www.lugnutz65chevystepside.weebly.com Want to know more about T5 transmissions? My website has a T5 Info Page and a Step by Step T5 rebuild. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#132 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Anderson, Texas
Posts: 535
|
Re: Complete T5 swap thread - one way to skin the cat
I read it on the internet so it has to be true
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#133 | |
Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Godley, TX
Posts: 17,963
|
Re: Complete T5 swap thread - one way to skin the cat
Quote:
Last edited by jocko; 03-01-2013 at 02:32 PM. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#134 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 1,927
|
Re: Complete T5 swap thread - one way to skin the cat
Just to add to the story - not to beat a dead horse.
The tranny I pulled had a readable sticker with bar code on top (covered with grease) as well as a readable tag (after I soaked it in naval jelly) that matched. I'm as sure as anyone can be that it was an unmolested tranny. I am convinced that the charts on the various websites are NOT reliable - as has already been stated. I've talked to a lot of people selling T5s. They all tell me that the one they are selling has such and such gears "because I looked it up on the internet". Maybe the charts are 99% accurate, or maybe only 60%, who knows? As for me, I will NOT believe any info about the internal gears in a T5 UNLESS I have turned the shafts myself and/or inspected the inside. How many people selling a T5 will let you open it and inspect? (a retorical question) It makes buying a T5 a rather big step of faith unless you turn the shafts and count the turns yourself. I might sound angry, but I'm not. ![]()
__________________
My 65 C10 build: www.lugnutz65chevystepside.weebly.com Want to know more about T5 transmissions? My website has a T5 Info Page and a Step by Step T5 rebuild. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#135 |
Account Suspended
![]() Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Mt. Prospect IL
Posts: 482
|
Re: Complete T5 swap thread - one way to skin the cat
So the million dollar question is how do I tell what I actually have it I can not rely on the tag? I actually have 3 of these in the shop and sure would be nice to know what they really are.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#136 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 1,927
|
Re: Complete T5 swap thread - one way to skin the cat
Quote:
1. With the tranny out of the vehicle, shift it into 5th gear. 2. Place tape on the input and output shaft and mark each shaft with a line at the 12 o'clock position. 3. Hand turn the output shaft (tailshaft) exactly one turn. 4. Look to see how far the input shaft turned. If more than 3/4 turn then the OD gear is 0.86 (although 0.78 is also possible in a Ford tranny), very very close to 3/4 turn would be the 0.72 OD gear. A 0.63 OD would be midway between 1/2 and 3/4 turns. 5. Do the same procedure with the shifter in 1st gear, but you must keep a closer eye on the input shaft so you don't miss a turn. You can improve accuracy in calculating 1st gear by turning the tailshaft 10 complete revolutions, and then dividing the input shaft revolutions by a factor of 10. i.e. 10 tailshaft turns caused 40 input shaft turns, so 40/10= 4, so you have a 4.03 1st gear. I told a tranny shop what the tooth count was on the input shaft gear and a few other gears, and he told me what I had by doing some math. Sorry, but I don't know what his method was.
__________________
My 65 C10 build: www.lugnutz65chevystepside.weebly.com Want to know more about T5 transmissions? My website has a T5 Info Page and a Step by Step T5 rebuild. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#137 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 1,927
|
Re: Complete T5 swap thread - one way to skin the cat
OK, so I now have a way to calculate 1st and 5th gear ratios if you already have the case open.
There will be 2 rows of gears. One row (gears A, B, and C) will be in line with the input and output shafts. The second row (X, Y, and Z)will be lower down in the case and slightly over towards the passenger side. Please refer to the photo below which shows the inside of my T5. I showed a version of this photo to a tranny shop. He made calculations and told me what the gears were for 1st and 5th. Follow this procedure: X divided by A times B divided by Y = 1st gear ratio which is 37 divided by 21 times 32 divided by 14 = 4.03 first gear For 5th gear: X divided by A times C divided by Z = 5th gear ratio which is 37 divided by 21 times 25 divided by 51 = 0.86 fifth gear ![]()
__________________
My 65 C10 build: www.lugnutz65chevystepside.weebly.com Want to know more about T5 transmissions? My website has a T5 Info Page and a Step by Step T5 rebuild. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#138 |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Hartselle, Al.
Posts: 466
|
Re: Complete T5 swap thread - one way to skin the cat
A little background before I ask a question: My truck had a T5 in it when I bought it. It worked perfectly. I tore the truck down completely and am doing a frame off restomod.
Now, I am about to reassemble the drive train. There is no adapter plate on the trans to bellhousing. Why does it work well? I thought you had to have a plate. I am going to reassemble it just like it was. I am just curious. Oh, the trans number says it's out of an 86 Camaro. Steven
__________________
“Life is and will ever remain an equation incapable of solution, but it contains certain known factors.” - Nikola Tesla Matt. 6:27 "Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life?” http://www.67-72chevytrucks.com/vboa...=507266&page=2 |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#139 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 1,927
|
Re: Complete T5 swap thread - one way to skin the cat
Quote:
If your T5 is a world class and has an input shaft from a V8 F body car, then it will not need the plate adapter (I think ![]() I have also seen non world class replacement input shafts that are shorter and can be swapped for the original S10 input shaft to make the S10 NWC tranny bolt right up to the original bellhousing. I would think that whoever installed your T5 knew these tricks and decided against using the adaptor plate, but used other options that work as well. Just curious, does your T5 use a center hole spacer to adapt from a 5 and 1/8" hole to a 4 and 11/16" hole?
__________________
My 65 C10 build: www.lugnutz65chevystepside.weebly.com Want to know more about T5 transmissions? My website has a T5 Info Page and a Step by Step T5 rebuild. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#140 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bancroft, ontario
Posts: 554
|
Re: Complete T5 swap thread - one way to skin the cat
the camaro/f body t5 has the perfect length input shaft and does not need an adapter plate.the t5's that need an adapter plate are out of an s10 (longer shaft)the f body world class t5's are from 88-92
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#141 |
Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Godley, TX
Posts: 17,963
|
Re: Complete T5 swap thread - one way to skin the cat
oldtrux is correct. F-body T5s need no adapter to accomodate input shaft length - however, if you want to fit them into a bench seat truck, it requires and S10 tailshaft housing in order to have the stick come through the floor in the proper location, that's all. An F-body WC T5 with an S10 tailshaft housing is the ideal combo that requires the least modifications to install. But, most folks can't afford to buy 2 transmissions to make 1 and the S10 tailshaft housings are getting harder and harder to come by. So, on a truck that won't be flogged, installing an S10 trans, which is normally not a WC (although they did make some WC S10 transmissions, '93, I believe) with a spacer plate is the most cost effective approach. If you have buckets, you can install an F-body T5 without any changes at all, no problema.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#142 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 1,927
|
Re: Complete T5 swap thread - one way to skin the cat
Quote:
The 93 through 95 S10 T5 trannys are WC BUT they all had the FORD case design and will not bolt to the Chevy factory bell. Like Jocko said, a WC T5 with the correct S10 tailhousing will need to be a hybrid.
__________________
My 65 C10 build: www.lugnutz65chevystepside.weebly.com Want to know more about T5 transmissions? My website has a T5 Info Page and a Step by Step T5 rebuild. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#143 |
Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Godley, TX
Posts: 17,963
|
Re: Complete T5 swap thread - one way to skin the cat
My trans is an original 93 S10 WC, and it does not have the ford bell pattern.
Bottom line is the buyer needs to educate themselves sufficiently before they buy to know what it is they are looking at and looking for - and not just rely on numbers. Numbers can mislead and resources are obviously not always correct. To reiterate what's in the beginning of the thread, if T5 shopping, it's a good idea to understand the following concepts: - WC vs non-WC and how to identify the difference visually (and whether or not that's even important to you - to me, it was not, but I got lucky). - S10 vs F-body tailshaft housing and how it affects shifter location - S10 vs F-body input shaft length (S10 T5 presents a problem, but it's easily solved with a spacer) - Speedo: mech or electronic - I tried to make sure the trans I bought had a mech speedo connection. The alternative can be resolved, but it takes a little work, that's all. - available 1st gear and o/d ratios and what they are worth to you (.72 vs .86, etc). Those are the basics of T5 shopping, any can be made to work, but some present more problems than others. Not all 93 WC S10 trannys had the Ford bell pattern yet - so, did the factory cut over mid-year? Or some other weirdness? Who knows, but the bottom line is to know what you need by gathering as much info as you can (without believing it blindly) so you can shop informed - and avoid surprises later when you're assembling the combo. Last edited by jocko; 03-03-2013 at 06:44 PM. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#144 | |
Account Suspended
![]() Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Mt. Prospect IL
Posts: 482
|
Re: Complete T5 swap thread - one way to skin the cat
Quote:
I now have a spare NWC T-5 with mechanical speedo gear/electronic tail housing as well as a full NWC w/mechanical out that will be showing up in the classifieds shortly. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#145 |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Eldridge, Alabama
Posts: 105
|
Re: Complete T5 swap thread - one way to skin the cat
I am wanting to put a Borg Warner T5 5 speed transmission in my 62 Chevy truck. Does anyone close to Alabama have one for sale? I have looked in the classifies and could not find one. Thanks
__________________
Current project (My Maria) 62 Chevrolet LWB stepside ![]() 235 inline 6 cylinder http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=569873 Dano Last edited by Dano0579; 03-06-2013 at 11:38 PM. Reason: added more info |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#146 |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Hartselle, Al.
Posts: 466
|
Re: Complete T5 swap thread - one way to skin the cat
Check Pitts in Athens.
They have a ton of manual trans in a shed by the office. Steven
__________________
“Life is and will ever remain an equation incapable of solution, but it contains certain known factors.” - Nikola Tesla Matt. 6:27 "Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life?” http://www.67-72chevytrucks.com/vboa...=507266&page=2 |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#147 |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Eldridge, Alabama
Posts: 105
|
Re: Complete T5 swap thread - one way to skin the cat
Thanks dantimdad, I will call them tomorrow.
__________________
Current project (My Maria) 62 Chevrolet LWB stepside ![]() 235 inline 6 cylinder http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=569873 Dano |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#148 |
Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Somewhere In So. IL.
Posts: 409
|
Re: Complete T5 swap thread - one way to skin the cat
Speaking of verifying, I need to verify the info I have is correct.
I've got a Tremec Aftermarket T56 which was designed by Borg Warner to be a replacement for the F-body T5 before all the TKO's and such came about. It bolts to the same bell that fits an f-body T5. I believe these are also the same as the Muncie 4 speed bells, correct? Is the stock 66 C10 (6 cyl motor currently) bellhousing center hole the same as both these other bells? I think I read the other 4 attaching bolt holes are the same. I know the 6 cyl bell will also fit the small block engines. If so, then my aftermarket T56 should just bolt right in. I do plan on removing the bellhousing crossmember using just the bell and adding a rear crossmember due to the added weight (at least 150 lbs) of the T56. Here's a couple pics of what I have. http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/v...86-000-011.jpg http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/v...rmarketT56.jpg Thanks for any clarification. Doug |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#149 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Anderson, Texas
Posts: 535
|
Re: Complete T5 swap thread - one way to skin the cat
Quote:
I have a S 10 WC t-5 with a Chevy bolt pattern |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#150 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 1,927
|
Re: Complete T5 swap thread - one way to skin the cat
Yes, I will retract my earlier statement about the S10 not having a WC tranny. Apparently some did. I am again the victim of wrong info that I have read on the web. Jocko says his 93 S10 T5 is a WC also. I am planning a web page on my BLOG that will contain helpful info for folks who have questions about the T5. I just bought a 1988 V8 Camaro WC T5. I'm posting photos on my BLOG that show it side by side with a GMC S15 NWC T5 just so people can see the differences.
Posted via Mobile Device
__________________
My 65 C10 build: www.lugnutz65chevystepside.weebly.com Want to know more about T5 transmissions? My website has a T5 Info Page and a Step by Step T5 rebuild. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
Bookmarks |
Tags |
5-speed, clutch, t-5, transmission |
|
|