Project Goldilocks, '66 C10 SWB BBW Build

[theastronaut]

Originally Posted by Alan's Classic

Watch out for those wild hairs. I've got so many in my head they are starting to grow out of my ears...........really.

I'll talk to Santa about getting you one of these for Christmas.

Originally Posted by McMurphy

I gotta second this....
And are you sure you are not going to end up like the one fellow here who started to build a shop/parts runner truck, and ended up putting it in car shows??

I know I am going to show mine as a work in progress, though mainly it will be a hauler for my Tempest to the shows.
Something about a 66 trailering a 66 just seems like it will be cool to me

I really enjoy your build threads man; I learn so much from the guys around here like you!

It's not going to be a show truck...
It's not going to be a show truck...
It's not going to be a show truck...
Must stay focused...
It's not going to be a show truck...
It's not going to be...

Originally Posted by pdxhall

I think the biggest problem I have is reading in the forum. So many good ideas get stuck in my head that I'd like to do it's hard to stay on track with the original plan.

BINGO! That's half the problem right there. I'm sure the other half is somhow yalls fault too.




On a more serious note, I did start on the chassis upgrades today. I needed to address the potential problem of the front end bottoming out. I don't want to spend all this time making the undersides all spiffy and then scrape something and mess it all up. So I had this 2x6 laying around and swivel castor and thought, "that would make a great anti-scrape device". So I built it.

Before replying, please remember to keep any comments or remarks birthed out of a covetous heart to yourself, so that you won't feed other members' jealousy and covetousness.

Behold.





Actually, I pulled the front suspension today and needed a way to roll the frame around temporarily.









I also got the front bag plates mounted and test fit the bags. I should be picking up an extra pair of lower control arms this week so I can have a pair to cup for the lower bag mounts. I'm going to go ahead and do all of the fabrication work and get everything mocked up before I prep and paint the frame and chassis parts. That way I'll know that everything fits and won't have to do any drilling/grinding/bending to get the parts to fit for the final assembly. I'm also thinking about re-notching the lower control arm cross shafts to move them forward as much as possible for more castor. Maybe one day I'll be able to afford a set of tubular control arms but I'll make the best of what I have for now.

[theastronaut]

BTW, here's the topic I started on X member design and frame bracing. If you are knowledgeable about how a strong frame should be built please take a look and add some input.

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=495785

Or, even if you don't have anything positive to add, go comment anyways so it stays towards the top and maybe somebody that does know their stuff will see it and share their advice.

[chad64chevy]

astronaut, you got me thinking about if i need the bag brackets or not! i got 4.5" drop in the front, i made my brackets for the rear

[theastronaut]

Originally Posted by chad64chevy

astronaut, you got me thinking about if i need the bag brackets or not! i got 4.5" drop in the front, i made my brackets for the rear

It just depends on how tall the design height of your bags are and how low you want your ride height.

The Airlift D2600 bags are pretty big so I didn't use the cups. I pumped the bags up to their minimum design height (six inches) and it looks like there's going to be roughly 3"-4" of suspension travel before the axle hits the bump stops. I've still got to lower the bumpstops so the pumpkin doesn't hit the bed floor at full drop, so that's just a rough estimate. Their maximum design height is nine inches so I can lift it up another three inches for more suspension travel if it bottoms out at six inches.

I may try clearancing the top of the pumpkin and plane down the bottom of the center boards for more clearance at full drop so I can squeeze out another 3/4"-1" more suspension travel.

[chad64chevy]

i got the same bags as you got for the rear! i made some bag plates that will bolt in, they are 2in. tall! the front of my truck has a 4.5" drop, the 3" drop rear springs i got, i think they are jeep springs! 3 people sitting on the tailgate, an the bottom of the rear wheelwell was about 6-8" off the ground! so thats one reason i'm going with the bags

[theastronaut]

Originally Posted by chad64chevy

i got the same bags as you got for the rear! i made some bag plates that will bolt in, they are 2in. tall! the front of my truck has a 4.5" drop, the 3" drop rear springs i got, i think they are jeep springs! 3 people sitting on the tailgate, an the bottom of the rear wheelwell was about 6-8" off the ground! so thats one reason i'm going with the bags

That's why I wanted bags too. I had 3" springs but didn't think they'd be up to the job if I wanted to tow or haul anything. I tried selling the springs on ebay, made sure to pack them well, and USPS tore the box up during shipping and lost the springs (he sent me pics of the remaider of the box, it was ugly) so I had to refund the guy that bought them. I haven't had good luck with 3" springs lol.

[theastronaut]

Here's my initial X member design. It's got upper and lower X bracing tied into a round tube center section. I'm going to cut out all of the original crossmembers so I can fully box the frame rails, and gotta get a trans so I can mock up the engine mounts and trans crossmember before I can start in the X member. I'll mount the cab so I can see how far down and back I can move the engine/trans for better weight distribution too. These kinds of mods don't cost much but should make a huge difference in how the truck drives and handles.

Don't make too much fun of my lack of MS Paint skills.


Posted via Mobile Device
Posted via Mobile Device

[theastronaut]

Not much to report. I got the rear suspension pulled as well as the steering parts. The frame needed bracing before I pull the crossmembers out so I welded some tubing in to keep the rails in place. I got all of the top rivets out for the two inner crossmembers tonight, gotta flip the frame to get the bottom rivets out. I'm thinking about making my own trailing arm crossmember with adjustable mounting points for the T/A's to bolt up to, make it clear the driveshaft, and make room for dual exhaust. The upper shock mounts will be on a new crossmember, and the lower will get welded to the axle housing. Also planning on running a full length track bar with adjustable mounts.






Posted via Mobile Device

[duallyjams]

I'm trying to pay attention - the frame was together and good to go and now it's completely apart and being redone.
OCD no bolt is left untouched right

[theastronaut]

Originally Posted by duallyjams

I'm trying to pay attention - the frame was together and good to go and now it's completely apart and being redone.
OCD no bolt is left untouched right

That pretty much sums it up!
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[theastronaut]

Small update. I need a transmission so I can mock up the engine/trans to make mounts and to make sure that I leave room around the drivetrain when building the X member. I thought about a T5 from an S10 but I don't think those will be strong enough once I get the 250 built. I don't want an auto because I'd rather stir my own gears, and because real hot rods have three pedals. I did some searching and found that a T56 six speed is rated at around 400-450 ft/lb and used ones aren't extremely expensive so I'll go with one of those. Should be able to run 4.56 or higher (numerically) gears to have fun around town and still be able to cruise comfortably at 80-90 mph since 6th gear is .50 to 1.00 ratio. A local shop that sends us all of their glass work has one and said I could borrow it to get the X member and engine/trans mounts built. I'll probably just go ahead and buy it from them after Christmas/New Year's since he's not wanting an arm and a leg for it. It'll get converted to mid shift so the shifter comes out ahead of the seat. Once I get the frame boxed and ready for engine mounts, I'm thinking about sitting the cab back on the frame to check for floor/firewall clearance and to see how far down and back I can move the engine for better weight distribution. We get a week off between Christmas and New Year's so I'm hoping to be able to get the frame boxed and engine/trans mounts made while we're off and the shop is empty.

Dad had a steel table frame that needed to be powdercoated so I went ahead and took the bed floor support channels and a few small peices with his table frame to the powercoaters, and they'll be ready to pick up this week.

I've also decided to move the gas tank to behind the axle for better weight distribution, and may move the battery also. A trailer hitch will add some weight in the rear too. Hopefully I'll be able to make more progress soon, just been too busy lately to get anything done.

[duallyjams]

You might not be physically doing much with but in your mind you are doing a lot with it.

[McMurphy]

Originally Posted by duallyjams

You might not be physically doing much with but in your mind you are doing a lot with it.

Sounds like me....
Monday thru Friday I get more done on my truck with my mind than I do Saturday and Sunday with my hands... LeSigh

Cannot wait to see how this one turns out though! Sounds like it is going to be some serious engineering.

[theastronaut]

Got up Saturday and started the day off right.




I got all the crossmembers out and was going to finish making templates for the frame boxing but Christmas shopping got in the way. Which was a good thing since I've decided to not box the frame, just do an upper and lower X member. From what I've read lately boxing doesn't add much torsional rigidity, and I don't want to add the extra weight if it won't help much.

Here's another reason I'm not boxing the frame. Hotchkis didn't do boxing on the C10 they built (pictured below), so that's reason enough for me. You have to be logged in to veiw the pics in the link, but it's worth signing up for.
http://c10forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8455




I'll still double or triple box the frame in the C notch area since boxing the frame helps alot with horizontal loading, and I do plan on towing with the truck. I'll be off all next week so I'll hopefully be able to get a good bit of the bracing done, depending on how many Christmas/family gatherings we have going on.

[theastronaut]

Originally Posted by duallyjams

You might not be physically doing much with but in your mind you are doing a lot with it.

Originally Posted by McMurphy

Sounds like me....
Monday thru Friday I get more done on my truck with my mind than I do Saturday and Sunday with my hands... LeSigh

Cannot wait to see how this one turns out though! Sounds like it is going to be some serious engineering.

Very true. I wish I had waited on C notching the frame until now, because if I'd waited til I knew what I was doing I would have moved the notch and the trailing arm crossmember back 1.5" to center the wheel in the wheelwell.I may still weld up the C notch cut area, and make my own notch farther back though. Thinking and planning is important so you only do the job once, the right way!!

[likaroc13]

man, now i'm gonna have to go out & get a Yoo-hoo, i haven't had one in a long time

[theastronaut]

Originally Posted by likaroc13

man, now i'm gonna have to go out & get a Yoo-hoo, i haven't had one in a long time

Can't beat 'em for a mid morning snack!


I forgot to post this earlier, but since the plans have changed slightly since I started the build, I have been thinking about changing the wheels to match. I've considered using a company that makes pressed centers for off road wheels to make a set of centers for my Titian 18's, but I came across this truck in an old Street Rodder mag last night and the wheels instantly caught my attention. They're patterned after Aero Racing wheels (think Nascar) but are custom made billet 17's since Aero doesn't offer larger sizes than 15ish. I could use my Titan rims and have pressed centers made to match the Aero center pattern. My moon disc/stock cap idea would still work over these wheels if I ever wanted to do that later on. The tire decals are pretty awesome so those may have to go on the "to do" list as well.

[chad64chevy]

i got the same c-notch as you and was thinking of welding it in and double brace it, with one in the middle and one on the outside out of 1/4" plate, i think that would work! i'm still waiting to be able to tow with it too!! one thing about having a project is plans change often, lol!!

[theastronaut]

Originally Posted by chad64chevy

i got the same c-notch as you and was thinking of welding it in and double brace it, with one in the middle and one on the outside out of 1/4" plate, i think that would work! i'm still waiting to be able to tow with it too!! one thing about having a project is plans change often, lol!!

That's the same thing I've got in mind for my C notches.


We had a stock '65 with a 230/250 I6 in the shop today for a new windshield so I took some pics for reference.





There's not much room to drop the engine like I had hoped to be able to since the steering linkage is in the way. I wanted to notch the crossmember a few inches, but I'd also have to come up with a dropped center steering cross bar. I had planned on using No Limit's rack and pinion kit later on, but I'm not sure it would work with a notched crossmember/dropped engine. The only other option would be to notch the oil pan, but I don't think there's much clearance to be gained there. So dropping the engine may get scratched off the "to do" list. I guess this works for other guys that have shorter V8's.







There's also not much room to move the engine rearward without moving the engine down. Maybe an inch at the most without reworking the firewall- which for sure isn't gunna happen. Hopefully the T56 will clear the floor (low hump) without dropping the engine. The dropped center steering linkage is doable if I have to though.







I picked up the bed support rails and a few parts from the powdercoaters this week and ordered the steel for the X member and frame bracing, which should be here mid next week. I decided to go with 1"x2" 14g rectangle tube. I'm thinking that most all the load on the tubing will be a compression load (trying the make the tubing shorter) so thicker .125" wall tube wouldn't really be that helpful, and weigh more.





And lastly, Danbury Mint now makes a 1:24 scale model of my truck! It's a short/fleet BBW with Saddle Poly two tone! I may have to pick one of these up as a Christmas gift to myself! Thanks to sigshooter for sending me the info on these!

[blue64c20]

Originally Posted by theastronaut

Can't beat 'em for a mid morning snack!


I forgot to post this earlier, but since the plans have changed slightly since I started the build, I have been thinking about changing the wheels to match. I've considered using a company that makes pressed centers for off road wheels to make a set of centers for my Titian 18's, but I came across this truck in an old Street Rodder mag last night and the wheels instantly caught my attention. They're patterned after Aero Racing wheels (think Nascar) but are custom made billet 17's since Aero doesn't offer larger sizes than 15ish. I could use my Titan rims and have pressed centers made to match the Aero center pattern. My moon disc/stock cap idea would still work over these wheels if I ever wanted to do that later on. The tire decals are pretty awesome so those may have to go on the "to do" list as well.

That truck is gorgeous...Ive always wanted to see a 60-66 done nascar style, btw sweet project and very nice work!

[aggie91]

WOW! Just read this whole thread. Makes me rethink what building a "driver" means as far as detail goes...

Looks great!
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[MalibuKasey]

Couple things.... If you look up the Bapst truck here... hes the guy that runs the autocross at the Charlotte Goodguys... He set his engine back and moved it down then made a custom firewall for it all to work. That may be an idea. As for a NASCAR inspired 60-66 truck.... Dig up the pics of the on Richard Childress' Cup shop built... absolutely AWESOME!! Remember.... Nascar trailing arms bolt right up!

[theastronaut]

Originally Posted by aggie91

WOW! Just read this whole thread. Makes me rethink what building a "driver" means as far as detail goes...

Looks great!
Posted via Mobile Device

Thanks dude! It's still going to be a long way from what a "show car" restoration would be, as far as the frame detailing goes. It will get sanded down and repainted, and reassembled with new grade 8 bolts but that's about it. If it were going to be a show car all the extra holes would be welded up, all of the rust pits would get skim coated, then everything shot with high build primer and wetsanded completely smooth. The seams would get welded and ground smooth, all of the edges would get radiused, the paint would be cut and buffed... Just because it's got a fresh coat of paint doesn't mean it's "detailed"!

Originally Posted by MalibuKasey

Couple things.... If you look up the Bapst truck here... hes the guy that runs the autocross at the Charlotte Goodguys... He set his engine back and moved it down then made a custom firewall for it all to work. That may be an idea. As for a NASCAR inspired 60-66 truck.... Dig up the pics of the on Richard Childress' Cup shop built... absolutely AWESOME!! Remember.... Nascar trailing arms bolt right up!

I can't cut the firewall, it's too nice of a truck to start hacking it. And I want to be able to use the stock style firewall insulation/cover. I don't really want to cut a hole in the floor for the shifter, but that's the only way to get a decent manual transmission. I'll leave the engine where it is and use the stock mounts, as long as the T56 will fit without having to drop it any.

I guess I got carried away planning all the go fast tricks and now reality is setting in.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by theastronaut

....I can't cut the firewall, it's too nice of a truck to start hacking it. And I want to be able to use the stock style firewall insulation/cover. I don't really want to cut a hole in the floor for the shifter, but that's the only way to get a decent manual transmission. I'll leave the engine where it is and use the stock mounts, as long as the T56 will fit without having to drop it any.

I guess I got carried away planning all the go fast tricks and now reality is setting in.

Didn't factory 4spd trucks (big trucks w/the granny geared 1st) have a hole in the floor for the shifter? Besides, that's easy enough to 'reverse' should you ever deem it necessary vs. a cut/modified firewall.

[theastronaut]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

Didn't factory 4spd trucks (big trucks w/the granny geared 1st) have a hole in the floor for the shifter? Besides, that's easy enough to 'reverse' should you ever deem it necessary vs. a cut/modified firewall.

Correct, and filling the shifter hole later on wouldn't be a big deal to weld up and bodywork so the repair is undetectable.