Make it handle

[PBFAB.COM]

I would drill mine.

[68GMCCustom]

with my 2.5" drop spindles I added tubular upper control arms to my low budget build because I wanted the extra 5* of caster....if needed I'd drill for more.

[N2TRUX]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

...So, Are you guys willing to drill out the spindle, or not??What do you think about this??

If it were part of a tested package, sure I would do it. Keep in mind, I am rather conservative about modding anything with out a proven reason.

[Wvgearhead]

Rob,
I am setting up a 3 link wishbone(triang 4) and I am having trouble with fitting everything
around the driveshaft. What do you think about this set up, 57% Anit Squat,16RCH, 2* roll oversteer, Ic 127" 13", I think my Cog should be around 18 or 19. Wheel base is 116"
Thanks

[M5-]

I'd have no problem drilling that out especially if it gave you the option of using a high quality Cro Mo rod end.

M5

[robnolimit]

Good feedback, keep it coming. Those that know me, know that safety is a concern, and I tend to overbuild.
WvGearhead first off, you need to speek up more often. How about some picts. How are you getting your numbers? Are you using Suspension-Pro? You seem to be up on this stuff. Thats great. Your set-up seems to be pretty good, I'm guessing your tire is about 29" dia. thats puts your roll center a few inches above the axle center line (hieght). I would consider lowering it a bit, or at least allowing for an adjustment later, second set of forward holes. Some squat in a truck is good, to help with some weight transfer. Lets go over this on the forum so everyone can check out your work. How about shocks/springs?

[ctrow]

I'm going to have to do some reading....

Great thread BTW.

The questions I have are related to materials. Where does one find the right tubing and end links for fabricating things like rear end linkage?

Mabye it's covered in the recommended reading earlier in this thread.

Of course it probably makes sense to buy off the shelf on some items. Nothing like making your own pieces though.

[Wvgearhead]

Rob,
I am building a 53 3100 on air, The front is a tci MII and the rear is a custom built Wishbone I picked up, The wishbone and the lowers both span 28", so it should keep constant pinion angle. My problem is, I didnt think about the driveshaft...hmmm, So now I am trying to get the best numbers I can without having to flip the wishbone around and put the single on the center section. I used a suspension calculator from a 4wheel drive form. I dont have any big intentions on racing the truck, but you never know. I figure I would atleast try to make it real fun to drive anyway. The numbers I am plugging in are: upper links ,frame end x=28 y=0 z=17.50 Axle end x=0 y=17 z=18.86 lower links frame end, x=28 y=17 z=9.14 axle end x=0 y=17 z=8.14. This equals AntiSquat=%57 RCH17", IC x=127" z= 13" Roll oversteer 2*, travel roll axis -2.78*. I am not sure about the roll steer, how much is too much. How do you think this set up would handle and ride? The Cog I am guessing to be around 19", and as for the tire size I am planning on running around a 26" tire.

Aaron

[Wvgearhead]

Oh yea just in case, X=0 on the axle y=0 at cl of chassis and z-=0 at shop floor

[PBFAB.COM]

Wvgearhead- What kind of power is your drivetrain puting out? You could always run a 2-piece driveshaft as well. It should take care of your clearance issues on your upper wishbone.

[PBFAB.COM]

Originally Posted by ctrow

I'm going to have to do some reading....

Great thread BTW.

The questions I have are related to materials. Where does one find the right tubing and end links for fabricating things like rear end linkage?

Mabye it's covered in the recommended reading earlier in this thread.

Of course it probably makes sense to buy off the shelf on some items. Nothing like making your own pieces though.

We can sell you any of the necessary parts to make your own linkage and or make recommendations to help you out.

[ctrow]

Originally Posted by porterbuilt

We can sell you any of the necessary parts to make your own linkage and or make recommendations to help you out.

Can't you just move to okc so I can work off materials and learn something as I go? Lol

I can't seem to find the books mentioned earlier on learning suspension. Anyone got the names of them?
Posted via Mobile Device

[M5-]

Man looks I got some serious learning to get after.

M5

[Wvgearhead]

I am running a 450 hp small block, hopefully a lt1 t56 if I can find one and a 8.8 rear with a locker and 373s. M5 there are books, but you can learn alot by google. I looked at some other forums geared for road racing. The best calculator I have found was actually on a 4 wheeldrive forum. I still need to read a lot more, but I'm learning.
Aaron
Posted via Mobile Device

[Wvgearhead]

An extra ujoint scares me, I have been known to break things. Lol
Posted via Mobile Device

[robnolimit]

Wv Do you have the motor/trans mocked up yet? Remember that it is helpfull to mount the motor as low, and as far back, as you can. Sometimes we notch the MII crossmembers and box them back up to create more oil pan clearance. The bottom of the pan can be even with the running board. it will look small in the engine bay, but it will drive/handle better. Also, the low motor/trans hieght may solve your driveshaft issue. Try to keep the carb base level with the frame, crank angle will then be about 3*, then match the pinion.

Info search, I'll post up some book/web/chart info later

[N2TRUX]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

..... a copy of Herb Adams suspension book. If your a computer guy, buy a copy of "suspension geometry pro" ....

Originally Posted by ctrow

I can't seem to find the books mentioned earlier on learning suspension. Anyone got the names of them?

Google Herb Adams "Chassis Engineering" and you will get several hits.

[Wvgearhead]

Great rob, thanks
Posted via Mobile Device

[PBFAB.COM]

Originally Posted by ctrow

I can't seem to find the books mentioned earlier on learning suspension. Anyone got the names of them?
Posted via Mobile Device

Google "Carroll Smith". He has written several good books inlcuding Tune to Win, and Engineer to Win. These are great books that will really open your eyes and understaning. After the books, purchase a suspension analyzer program. Rob mentioned a great one earlier in the thread "Front Suspension Geometry Pro". It's a great and affordable program, just over $100. I bought one several years ago and even bought the new version a couple months back to see how I liked it. I also have some more expensive software including Bill Mitchell's WinGeo... It's more complicated to use.

[leftcoast66]

Thanks Nate for the info, I've read Herb Adams, I'm gonna have to pick up the Carroll Smith's books next. What would you guys suggest for material size for building a frame. What dimensions and thickness are working best for the frame builders.

[N2TRUX]

Originally Posted by leftcoast66

Thanks Nate for the info.... What dimensions and thickness are working best for the frame builders.

From another thread entitled- what size metal to build rear frame?

Originally Posted by porterbuilt

We build ours from 2x4x.120.

Originally Posted by FnLow69

Same here, even Art Morrison chassis are 2x4x.120 wall.

Originally Posted by BlueJeep

2x4x.120 works for me, and this is exposed to a lot more stress than a street driven truck. A lot of it has to do with the competency level, engineering ability, and welding ability of the builder.

[robnolimit]

We build a three piece main rail. 2 x 6, .188 wall in the middle (appx firewall to the start of the rear fick) and 2 x 4, .188 on each end. Yes, its a bit heavier, about 85 lbs over a 2 x 4 .120 wall pair of rail, but this is good weight. - low and centered. Our X-members for these trucks are 2 x 4 .120.

[leftcoast66]

Thanks Rob and N2TRUX for the help.

[dnd1978]

[QUOTE=robnolimit;4167810]The whole goal of A arm swapping, and I don't know if this really works, is to increase positive 'Caster'. Stock C-10's spec out 1 or 2 degrees, but your truck will respond well to 6 to 7 deg, and more for the wide tire guys, bigger than 8". To my knowledge, nobody makes a set of arms to gain caster, may someone should. The trick is to move the lower ball joint forward about a 1/2", and the upper ball joint back about 7/8", this will keep the wheel centered and net about 8 deg. + caster.

Robnolimit,

I just found this. Hotckis make the corrected A arm. What do you think?


http://www.hotchkis.net/search.html?...mitForm=Search

[SCOTI]

[quote=dnd1978;4234154]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

The whole goal of A arm swapping, and I don't know if this really works, is to increase positive 'Caster'. Stock C-10's spec out 1 or 2 degrees, but your truck will respond well to 6 to 7 deg, and more for the wide tire guys, bigger than 8". To my knowledge, nobody makes a set of arms to gain caster, may someone should. The trick is to move the lower ball joint forward about a 1/2", and the upper ball joint back about 7/8", this will keep the wheel centered and net about 8 deg. + caster.

Robnolimit,

I just found this. Hotckis make the corrected A arm. What do you think?


http://www.hotchkis.net/search.html?...mitForm=Search

This kit was mentioned back on posts 116-118 (referred to as the 'H' kit).