The Official John Lee Jr Thread

[Sharps40]

The transdapt gasket between the carb and adapter has slots...with the weber base, huge vacuum leaks are pending...time to cut one from my Felpro stock.



After cutting the outside shape, press hard so the carb holes marke the gasket, outline em and cut em out a bit small to fit snug on the bolts. I use curved toenail scissors, they do the job pretty slick on tight curves. A drill press would do it too.



Adapter mounted to carb and tracing out the hole for both barrels.



Now thats a gasket I can live with, no vacuum leaks.



A couple traced out, I'll cut em later and put them in the road kit under the seat.



Its easier to bring the carb and base together off the manifold...new gasket is sammiched in there too.



From the top, linkage reattached, carb bolted to manifold...I'll tune the linkage later.



View from the drivers side.

[Sharps40]

A shot of the roughed in linkage with the PCV hose out of the way. Almost all factory C10.



Hooked up the gas and ported vacuum for the dizzy. I'll have to get a filter, can't find the one I bought...but its a new tank and clean, so for a test run it'll be fine. I also installed the air cleaner adapter on top of the carb.



All together and one last check before the test fire - yep, ran outta time and didn't hook up the electric choke, but I'll start it anyway.



Electric choke is the black wheel between the valve cover and the carb.



Okay, I test ran the truck, needs tuneing and has a flat spot on transition from one to two barrels. I'll go back and do some reading....but fine tuneing first, could be too lean or could be not enough advance, etc. Fun stuff. I installed a test lead to the electric choke, it opened the butterflys and smoothed up the idle. So for now, I tuned the idle mixture and it seems fine around 550 rpm. But, all week to tweek and test drive. I'm lookin forward to gettin this one set and forgettin it for about 80K miles of reliable drivin.

Here it is after the run, idlen with the test lead on the choke.

[jayoldschool]

Nice work! Keep me in mind if you are going to get rid of the stock air cleaner...

[Sharps40]

Originally Posted by jayoldschool

Nice work! Keep me in mind if you are going to get rid of the stock air cleaner...

I am sure I will be, carb too. I don't see goin back to a Rochester B. Got some tuneing to do to get the Weber workin right on both barrels. PM me.

[61K10]

good thread as usual sharps---I did my gasket holes the same as you for years, even used a ball peen hammer. finally i bought a set of hole punches, make nice round holes, especially good for small ones. have fun tuning----------

[Sharps40]

I thought about a small hammer, used to cut them that way on iron parts...figured I'd be more careful about the tender aluminum parts I was workin with!

I sent Mr. Langdon an email asking about timeing and tuneing. The HEI ran strong at 10 degrees BTDC w/the Rochester B.

Primary on the 32/36 is pretty good but dosn't feel as strong. Plus the flat spot on aggressive opening of the secondary which could be rich or lean or I have the bottoms open too far and the primary ain't doing its proper transition help while the dead air in the secondary gets up to speed and grabbs some gas.

For tonight I'm going to focus on better mechanical advantage on the linkage and replace that heavy heavy duty Chevy throttle spring with none or a light one. The throttle return on the Weber is plenty, but a light one for back up is safe. In any event, with the chevy factory spring and the weber spring together ya can't feather the pedal from idle at all, its always a goose and goes hard.

I think I'll scrape up a fuel filter too. If theres time I'm gonna back off all the carb adjustments to zero and come back at the recommended start settings.

It ran last night like a tractor on start up and so I adjusted the idle first...mistake now that I reread the instructions! Its supposed to be a tractor at start up and I shoulda leaned/richened the mixture first. Seems the throttle plates must be finely adjusted to durn near shut before ya even think of adjustin the idle speed/plate position, hence the mixture first...

If I can get it closer then I'll pop in some more advance and keep tweekin till its right.

Sure looks pretty though!!!

[1963c-10]

Originally Posted by 61K10

good thread as usual sharps---I did my gasket holes the same as you for years, even used a ball peen hammer. finally i bought a set of hole punches, make nice round holes, especially good for small ones. have fun tuning----------

Old brass ammo caseings work great also. .25 for 1/4, .38 3/8, .50 1/2...etc....I made a whole set for gasket hole punching. Just make sure the primers are spent or you'll get more bang than you bargained for.

[Sharps40]

Well Hells Bells, all them bullets sittin there and I never thought to use em for wad punches! Thanks Boss! I gotta get this thing tuned so I can run circles around yer big block conversion!!!!!

[1963c-10]

Originally Posted by Sharps40

Oh yeah, the heater now? Heck with puttin in a big core, I got so much air volume and heat I can make Hot Ham an Cheese sammies on the dash during late Deer Season!

Amazing what you can get out of the heater once you evict the pests.....haha

[Sharps40]

Okay, slow methodical work this evening. Some fine teaking of the linkage for better leverage, last nights set up worked but was sticky off the line, impossible to feather into the clutch and quite jerkey because of some bind. Good news is I retained 95% of 1965 C10 linkage with only 1/2" of the chevy connecting rod removed...to recovert to Rochester Mod B is dooable and the removal of the rod end will go functionally and cosmetically invisible.

So, compare last nights linkage photos and you'll see that I moved the Langdon vertical connector from manifold side to valve cover side of the bellcrank. Had to find a reversed dogleg shaft clip out of the junk box to make it work. I also moved the ball joint from the lower inner hole of the carb lever to the outer center hole...plenty of range of movement, nothing binds and the geometry is better....I looked at the model B and it also had the ball joint on a centerline with the butterfly shaft, neither above or below. So, in copying factory geometry closely, I wound up with smooth even motion and no binding. In addition, look at tonights photo of the long horizintal chevy connecting rod, I moved the threaded connector about 1/2 to 3/4 further back on the shaft...went too far the first time (all the way to the firewall end and bottomed the threads) and the pedal was vertical and off the spoon in the cab. I went out again with the threaded fitting about 1/4 inch from being bottomed out and perfect pedal function, though a bit more vertical than before, no worries though, I can mash it flat whenever I want! Hooked it all back up including the stout chevy return spring and it functions as smooth and easy as it did with the Rochester B on the manifold.



See, now the bell crank and the vertical connector make a Vee and I'm not having to move the connector over center while pushing it up. Very smooth and easy. The parts are better situated to move in smooth arcs now.



Installed a fuel filter and spankey new rubber fuel line and spanky new clamps. I stayed with the factory routing but I think I'm going to add a heat shied wrap to the fuel line where it passes between the head and the thermostat houseing...just in case, a vapor lock preventor.



Every tool in my shop is multi purpose from stanley chisel screwdrivers to pillips screwdriver punches to RCBS Reloading press soldering iron fixture. Here setting up one end of a 14g wire that will power the automatic choke from the fuze panel. I selected one of two Ignition Unfuzed slots as they are on with key off with key. Checked the power both ways and ran the wire in the harness to the fuze panel.



To keep the bay neat and factory looking, kinda stupid with a big 2 bbl wearin a spun aluminium hat huh? Anyway, I ran the auto choke wire along the valve cover following the dizzy vacuum and fuel lines and taped it in with the wires comeing from the sending unit in the head. This carries the wire back around the PS of the engine and right back over to a factory hole in the firewall just above the rear light harness. From ther, up over and around the inside of the dash to plug in directly to the fuze panel open ports. Very neat and the wire is bundled, can't be seen or called out...looks 1965ish kinda.



Turned on the power and watched the chokes slowely open...killed the power and watched em cool down and close.



From there it was a lotta time on my knees on the DS inner fender listening to the engine run as I fiddled with screws wedged under the linkage and between the carb and valve cover...Valve cover gets hot! I set the mixture back to zero and came out 2 full turns. Set the idle speed to zero and came into contact + 1.5 turns. It started fine, would not idle, Idle speed was 350 rpm with these required initial settings (to keep from uncovering the transition ports and never gettin it set right.) So, fuddled with the gas pedal, damn it works smooth! and got John Lee Jr warmed up...he stalled again. So, gave the mixture 1/2 more turn out and he started up and idled at 375 rpm, rough like a tractor but instructions say, it will run rough like a tractor, ignor it, don't fitzel the speed screw and start first by tweekin the lean idle setting.....screw it in to 2 turns, it dropped to 250 RPM but kept running and it was rough....went out to 2.5 turns and 425 rpm and much smoother, 3.5 turns out and rolling and no faster so back to 2 and 2.25 and 2.5 and 3 and settled on 2.5 as the best combination of smoothness and fastest RPM...

Off to the speed screw, it was 1.5 turns in from contact and so I added 1/4 turn in and the hot idle was now 500 + a scooch RPM, just what Motors says it should idle at. Popped on the air cleaner and started working the trottle thru its paces, easy, snappy, DAMNSKIPPIE THE SECONDARY IS OPEN AND THE EXHAUST IS A SCREAMIN DEAMON BURSTIN THRU THE CLOUDS! So, I did that again a few more times....Mr. Thush sounds pretty spankey growley when the motors really spinnin.

No test ride. I want it to cool all night and tomorrow I want to do a cold start to make sure the choke kicks up a fast idle and then will kick down to regular idle when I tap the pedal. If that works, ya can bet I'm headin out and if it feels good, Rt 1 is 70 MPH now tween Sanford and Raleigh...

[Sharps40]

Ya get ready there Jon, I'm gonn out pace ya big block in this here Six...while yer stoppin for gas I'm gonna be A Buzzin Half Dozen!

[Sharps40]

Oh yeah, sprayed everything with WD40, no vacuum leaks!

[Rich 5150 69]

JMO, I don`t think I would leave the plastic fuel filter hanging over the exhaust manifold....

[Sharps40]

Why not? A Rochester Mod B sat over the exhaust manifold for 48 years. But I get ya, for sure!

I'd have liked a metal one. Couldn't find one on short notice.

Metal one would keep me from lookin at the filter and seein only a little fuel and then bein worried the shiney new pump ain't workin right even though I know and can proove its gettin great mileage and eatin Fart Can Equipped Civics and Smart Cars for lunch on every trip.

Crap, fire hazard be dammed...Now I think on it, you've reminded me that I can't have a clear filter...it'll make me neurotic with worry that the filter ain't full of gas no matter how much proof there is to show me the fuel flow is fine. Now I really gotta go get a metal filter and take it all apart again or I'm gonna need more therapy time at the Dr's Office, and she's more expensive than a filter (and not near as pretty).

Thanks. Good catch. Saves me a fire and a buncha needeless performance worry and I can drink beer stead of spillin my guts to a strange woman who writes it all down !!

[Rich 5150 69]

I`d just hate to see a pretty truck go p in flames, seen one once but that was from the amp gauge shorting out, but the same effect ....

[Sharps40]

No worries. Still tweakin. Final final will likely see the fuel filter moved down under between the fuel tank and frame. I'd like to install one of the big inline filters like used on the FI cars back in the 90s.

[1963c-10]

Originally Posted by Sharps40

Ya get ready there Jon, I'm gonn out pace ya big block in this here Six...while yer stoppin for gas I'm gonna be A Buzzin Half Dozen!

I hear you....may get me off the line, but once the cubic inches build up it'll be a rocket....hahaha.

The work looks good. You should do some work to the 230 I'm going to give you and drop in a nice rebuilt engine with a little more work and really watch your back tires spin. Glad the work went good, you just never know with aftermarket parts. Tom Langdon designed these engines, so hes got a good handle on them. Hes got some nice stuff on his site.

And why not get one of the old glass fuel filters? Ive been running them since the 90's with no issues. Still allows you to see the fuel and no plastic.

[Sharps40]

The plastics not to frightning. 2" off the manifold is cooler than most believe. I'll move it later after determining the set up and tune on the engine is good.

I looked over pistons for the I6, they are the same as the small V8s. Keith black has some with an increased height for compression but I'd rather put the $400 in roller rockers and roller cam, build about as much HP with friction reduction and none of the disadvantages and multiple compromises elsewhere of high compression/taller pistons. If I can get this single weber tuned then a hot six rebuild might well see a pair of lil Carter/Webers on an offy with iron headers....woops, dreamin again!

[Rich 5150 69]

http://www.google.com/search?q=Cartr...w=1260&bih=615

There`s a big selection of canister style filters, as low as 10 microns that will serve that weber right.

[Sharps40]

Thanks. Can't wait to get out from behind this desk and go home and start my truck. I'm hopein its right as rain and ready to go Buzzin!

[Sharps40]

Talked with Mr. Langdon again today, great guy. Always calls/emails back.

So, gonna do the test run. If still a lil weak on the primary and flat on secondary the consensus is I'm a bit lean on the secondary and he'll shoot me a secondary main one size larger.

Crossin my fingers the tune was bungled the first time...I hate unbolting carb tops!

[aggie91]

I really enjoy this thread. All your posts are very detailed!

Looks Good!

[Sharps40]

Thanks. I'm about to go out and kick it over for its first run with a better carb tune. Pull some hills, if its seeming well, out to Rt 1 to push 60 or 70 mph and cycle the secondary barrel. The cold start in the garage will also let me know if I need to hit the choke and fast idle with some adjustments. My guess is it'll idle real fast initially and slow up a bit after I kick the pedal about a minute in. Much over 1500 rpm for fast idle and I'm gonna turn it down a bit in the morning.

But if all goes well, I can tell Mr. Langdon Thanks but won't need another jet. We'll know soon.

[Sharps40]

A big step forward. Tonight it started fine. Rough idle comeing off choke. Incidentally Fast idle is bout right. I can already tell though - bit of a cold natured carb sittin up on a 3" high adapter.

But the test ride was a bit of a dissappointment. A real lack of power across the entire RPM range and flat/surging on the secondary. What to do? Momma at work, power is out and we're between tornados North and Hell Storms South. I think I'll check plugs and timeing.

Plugs looked fine. White insulator, light black soot on rim and just gettin yellow/brown at the gap. Hmmm-the instructions I didn't follow from Mr Langdon suggested up to 18 degrees BTDC with the GM HEI. Figured Nah - too much, factory is only 4 with points afterall. I had the HEI set at 10 BTDC and it ran great on the Model B. I thought 10 was my big adventure in timeing.

But what the heck- assuming I have the carb close (I followed instructions the 2nd time I adjusted it) let's hook up and be real adventurous with 12 BTDC. Well, rpm went up and the motor smoothed out more. WTF? Bumped it to 15 BTDC and smoother yet. Test ride time. Buttoned John Lee Jr up and right up the driveway I could feel it. He was gettin out of his own way. Out on RT42 the acceleration and power were up and smooth. No surge, no ping. (Iffin ya'll woulda told me up to 18 BTDC I'da figgered ya fer fools).

I-m rollin smooth at 60 mph and decided - I gotta know. Mashed that pedal flat. NO FLAT SPOT! Just smooth even power pouring on slow and steady. ****Fire we're onta sumthin here! Yanked my foot off the gas and the engine pulled down smooth from 70+ mph. Man-O, did it again, over and over - same results, and No Pinging. Ah heck now I really gotta fine tune this carb and ignition.

It's gonna be just fine I think. Highway run tomorrow fer sure!
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[aggie91]

Sounds like you found a good set up. When I did my HEI on my 6 back in the late 80's, I thought the same thing on the timing. I think I finally settled around 16 btdc when using cheap 87 octane.
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