Make it handle

[hotrod1]

Rob:

Can you address torque or HP when it comes to autox? Many are building engines to produce big torque. Is this good or does this cause lack of rear end control? That being said, 2 1/2 exhaust or 3" exhaust (to enhance torque or HP)?

[jayman68]

^^^ Along those same lines, in the May issue of Street Trucks they have an article following the install of a new cam and intake in Hell Boy. To start the dyno readings are 506 HP and 412 ft-lb torque, then after it is 457 HP and 445 ft-lb torque. Is that what you were looking for or is that a typo? I understand that torque is what you need to get moving, and it has more effect than HP in autocross. They gave no explaination as to why the drop and some might see that as the wrong way to go.

[Mike Bradbury]

Hey Rob is there a web site that lists the rules for Auto cross? I.E. tires, engine size, weight, roll bars, all wheel drive vs 2 wheel? I know there are different classes but where are the cut offs for the different classes?
There seems to be a lot of guys here including myself that are looking to auto cross our trucks and it would be helpful to know the parameters

[hotrod1]

Oh, forgot. Rear end gear combo? I know there are a lot of factors, but what is a good overall for a autox pickup? 3:50, 3:73, 4:11? If there are too many factors, how would one determine it? What are the goals that need to be accomplished?

[hart11b]

I've got one for you:

I've got a new to me, fairly stock 1972 K20. It has a steering issue. When I get up to moderate speeds (40+MPH) the steering seems to react incrementally. What I mean...I make a small correction when driving, but either the steering is slow to react and I make too big a correction (it catches up) or something else.

I can't really narrow it down, but it takes a lot of attention to drive this truck and moderate speeds. I really need to fix this, but I don't know if modern mechanics will be up to the task. Of note, the "Stabilizer shock?" seems very old/original if that helps.

[Custom 68]

hart11b, have you checked all the steering connections. From the inner and outer tie rod ends to the pitman arm? It really sounds like something is loose or worn out. Check the ball joints while you are in there. There are lots of connections for the steering.
You also need to remember in stock form the steering boxes are "slower" than a new truck. you have to turn it more to get the same response. Without knowing your history it may just take some getting used to the differences.

[1FUN64]

Mike,

scca.com. Go to "downloads" near top, scroll down to solo rules, click on "go to solo cars and rules page" then "2013 SCCA SOLO Rules". Not sure why it's called "SOLO". There are also links to local events and clubs, no need to be a member to play. My first event in my 64 short wide was a couple years ago and I had the guys at the event help me with classification. I run in the Custom Prepared class, which does not take many modifications to end up there. I recommend running at these events, it is a blast to drive these trucks and it's not something they see every day. Good Luck. PM me if you have any additional questions.

[C0UCH]

Originally Posted by 1FUN64

I am debating leaving my inner fender wells out.

1) To show offf the new suspension.

2) Weight savings.

Would the weight savings be offset by the stiffness the inner panels provide to the front of the truck? I do not have the frame boxed or reinforced (yet) maybe next winter.

Interested in this as well as I just removed mine on my 67.

[jimmydean]

Originally Posted by Mike Bradbury

Hey Rob is there a web site that lists the rules for Auto cross? I.E. tires, engine size, weight, roll bars, all wheel drive vs 2 wheel? I know there are different classes but where are the cut offs for the different classes?
There seems to be a lot of guys here including myself that are looking to auto cross our trucks and it would be helpful to know the parameters

Just be like Frizzle Fry and run with the Porches.

ORPCA Autocross #1 05/18/07 - '69 Suburban...

[cory d]

i just grabbed 1 ton coils, some belltech nitro drop shocks and a 7/8" rear bar from a tahoe. if i dont like the shock, o well. they were used and dirt cheap

[Mike Bradbury]

Originally Posted by 1FUN64

Mike,

scca.com. Go to "downloads" near top, scroll down to solo rules, click on "go to solo cars and rules page" then "2013 SCCA SOLO Rules". Not sure why it's called "SOLO". There are also links to local events and clubs, no need to be a member to play. My first event in my 64 short wide was a couple years ago and I had the guys at the event help me with classification. I run in the Custom Prepared class, which does not take many modifications to end up there. I recommend running at these events, it is a blast to drive these trucks and it's not something they see every day. Good Luck. PM me if you have any additional questions.

Thanks that helps, I am sure I will have Q's

[oldblue1968chevy]

1 ton coils supposed to be a good budget upgrade?

[bdiamond]

Okay, I've read the whole thread a couple times. Now my question...On an 82 Blazer with a stock crossmember, lower arm moved 3/4", 1 coil cut 6102 springs, 1.25" swaybar,engine lowered slightly and poly bushings what front shocks/mounts would you recommend? Its gonna be a weekend cruiser nice day driver occasional autocrosser kinda truck. I don't mind spending money on quality but don't have an unlimited budget...

[bdiamond]

Originally Posted by bdiamond

Okay, I've read the whole thread a couple times. Now my question...On an 82 Blazer with a stock crossmember, lower arm moved 3/4", 1 coil cut 6102 springs, 1.25" swaybar,engine lowered slightly and poly bushings what front shocks/mounts would you recommend? Its gonna be a weekend cruiser nice day driver occasional autocrosser kinda truck. I don't mind spending money on quality but don't have an unlimited budget...

I have 3" spindles on it too...

[robnolimit]

Originally Posted by jimmydean

Just be like Frizzle Fry and run with the Porches.

ORPCA Autocross #1 05/18/07 - '69 Suburban Video#1 - YouTube

Most autocross clubs have there own rules. Tire spec is the big difference. We run mostly American Street Car Series, GoodGuys, and SCCA. Now, we don't have an ulimited tire budget (I know, right?) So, we run a 200 treadwear tire on almost everything. This is good for GoodGuys and ASCS, but we give up some at SCCA events. You can check their web sites for the rules, most are pretty simply safety stuff.

[robnolimit]

Originally Posted by bdiamond

Okay, I've read the whole thread a couple times. Now my question...On an 82 Blazer with a stock crossmember, lower arm moved 3/4", 1 coil cut 6102 springs, 1.25" swaybar,engine lowered slightly and poly bushings what front shocks/mounts would you recommend? Its gonna be a weekend cruiser nice day driver occasional autocrosser kinda truck. I don't mind spending money on quality but don't have an unlimited budget...

I really like the Bilstien shocks for this type of build. No tuning, no guessing, just drive. Not 'cheap' at appx 145 per shock, but lifetime warranty and it's a done deal.

[robnolimit]

Race report Chris 'Smitty' Smith, of Smitty's customs won the Pro class at the GoodGuys show in Springfield Mass last weekend. Chris' bad ass C10 runs No Limit suspension with RideTech shocks and Shockwaves out back, Yes, it's on air. After the win in Colorado from the HellBoy C10 a few weeks ago, that makes two pro class wins for C10's this year. More are coming!!
Nashville are you close? July 5,6,7 is the ASCS "Run to music City". They are trying to boost Truck participation. The Guys from "Trucks" TV will be there running their new Ranger project and doing some filming. Go check it out.

[AutoX_a_Truck?]

Originally Posted by Mike Bradbury

Hey Rob is there a web site that lists the rules for Auto cross? I.E. tires, engine size, weight, roll bars, all wheel drive vs 2 wheel? I know there are different classes but where are the cut offs for the different classes?
There seems to be a lot of guys here including myself that are looking to auto cross our trucks and it would be helpful to know the parameters

Originally Posted by robnolimit

Most autocross clubs have there own rules. Tire spec is the big difference. We run mostly American Street Car Series, GoodGuys, and SCCA. Now, we don't have an ulimited tire budget (I know, right?) So, we run a 200 treadwear tire on almost everything. This is good for GoodGuys and ASCS, but we give up some at SCCA events. You can check their web sites for the rules, most are pretty simply safety stuff.

One thing I can recommend from experience is to thoroughly research your tire options, particularly if you plan to run events with the 200 treadwear cutoff. Try to find a tire and size that has a huge following and/or OEM application so it will be in production for the near future. Pick your tire setup first and then shop for wheels that will fit them. I made the mistake of going with wide 17" wheels so I have very few options and have to pay huge premiums for limited production tires that aren't necessarily that great. Custom tires are basically unobtainable whereas custom wheels are readily obtainable and many are affordable too. If I could start over I should have went with 18" wheels even though for aesthetics I prefer the smaller diameter wheels.

Originally Posted by robnolimit

Race report Chris 'Smitty' Smith, of Smitty's customs won the Pro class at the GoodGuys show in Springfield Mass last weekend. Chris' bad ass C10 runs No Limit suspension with RideTech shocks and Shockwaves out back, Yes, it's on air. After the win in Colorado from the HellBoy C10 a few weeks ago, that makes two pro class wins for C10's this year. More are coming!!
Nashville are you close? July 5,6,7 is the ASCS "Run to music City". They are trying to boost Truck participation. The Guys from "Trucks" TV will be there running their new Ranger project and doing some filming. Go check it out.

Congrats Rob. Will you make it to Des Moines this year? I will be there, but I won't be driving my truck this year.

[jimmydean]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

Race report Chris 'Smitty' Smith, of Smitty's customs won the Pro class at the GoodGuys show in Springfield Mass last weekend. Chris' bad ass C10 runs No Limit suspension with RideTech shocks and Shockwaves out back, Yes, it's on air. After the win in Colorado from the HellBoy C10 a few weeks ago, that makes two pro class wins for C10's this year. More are coming!!.

Bad ass!!! 2 C10's, that's awesome.

[robnolimit]

Originally Posted by AutoX_a_Truck?

One thing I can recommend from experience is to thoroughly research your tire options, particularly if you plan to run events with the 200 treadwear cutoff. Try to find a tire and size that has a huge following and/or OEM application so it will be in production for the near future. Pick your tire setup first and then shop for wheels that will fit them. I made the mistake of going with wide 17" wheels so I have very few options and have to pay huge premiums for limited production tires that aren't necessarily that great. Custom tires are basically unobtainable whereas custom wheels are readily obtainable and many are affordable too. If I could start over I should have went with 18" wheels even though for aesthetics I prefer the smaller diameter wheels.



Congrats Rob. Will you make it to Des Moines this year? I will be there, but I won't be driving my truck this year.

Yes we'll be there. Good point about the tires. I made the same mistake on the Silver Bullit. - bring your driving shoes.

[robnolimit]

Lately we have been experimenting with "Tread Width". Meaning, the total width, outside-to-outside of the tire track. This is a bit different than "Track width" which would be center of the tire tread-to-center of the tire tread.
For our testing we are using the HellBoy, which runs a 315/30/18 on all four corners. So the difference between the front and rear tread width is the same as the track width difference.
At the moment, the front total width is 73" and the rear is 71". So the front is 2" wider than the rear.
The truck has a slight push on corner entry, and can sometimes be loose on the corner exit.
So, here is the question. (we can adjust the width very easily) We can set up in 5 tread width stances. they are:
A. Front 2" wider
B. Front 1" wider
C. Even front/rr
D. Rear 1" wider
E. Rear 2" wider
To be fair, this testing will take a few weeks, We need to compile multiple lap times under somewhat similar conditions. So here is the question, What do you think will happen, and why?

[Custom 68]

That is interesting Rob, I remember years ago we built a purpose built car in college, we competed in Formula SAE. Anyway we decided to build this to the minimum lengths required for the A-mod class so we could race it in Autocross in this class. We built the "tread width" wider in the front than the rear. Our thinking was on the slower autocross courses we could turn-in very tight to the cones on the front and the rear would be just on that edge instead of being wider. We did very well with that car that year in competition. But that was a light race car with a great power to weight ratio and front to rear ratio. Plus good drivers.
My initial thought would be on your truck you will get less push the wider this tread width is. On the extreme if you are very narrow instead of turning it would most likely be like a pivot being more likely to push thru the corner, again that would be an extreme like a trike?
that's my thought...
will you be changing this width with spacers?

[68Stepbed]

Originally Posted by AutoX_a_Truck?

One thing I can recommend from experience is to thoroughly research your tire options, particularly if you plan to run events with the 200 treadwear cutoff. Try to find a tire and size that has a huge following and/or OEM application so it will be in production for the near future. Pick your tire setup first and then shop for wheels that will fit them. I made the mistake of going with wide 17" wheels so I have very few options and have to pay huge premiums for limited production tires that aren't necessarily that great. Custom tires are basically unobtainable whereas custom wheels are readily obtainable and many are affordable too. If I could start over I should have went with 18" wheels even though for aesthetics I prefer the smaller diameter wheels.

That's the issue I have. I have 17's, that look good, but don't perform well. Also, the tire choices are very limited, and almost non-existent in a "performance" tire. I eventually plan to switch to 18's to be able to have more options.

[midnight340]

Custom 68 I agree with you... Keep the front wider. Before I read your response I went through the thinking and it's clear to me I'd rather autocross a Morgan 3 wheel than a mc trike. Whether this checks out in the real world with small differences. Remains to be seen.
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[midnight340]

Also, much progress on my F-1 over the last number of weeks. The trailing arm set up is done (coil-overs, fat panhard, added rear crossmember, and some angled tubing bracing to stabilize the rear frame section...). Have yet to install the Firm Feel steering box/fast ratio pitman/ 1-1/4" sway bar.

I will post some photos soon.
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