Markeb01 Build Thread

[markeb01]

Same sentiments here. Thanks for stopping by and introducing yourself and spending some time with us. I enjoyed eyeballing your truck. It has really turned out to be a beauty!

I completed the air conditioner installation today. The layout turned out as neat as could be expected, having no inner fenders to hide anything:



The way the kit is designed, the drier is attached to the passenger side of the condenser, and comes with formed aluminum tubes & fittings that allow terminating the hoses just short of the battery box. This greatly simplifies the overall installation and especially the drier and connections to the condenser.

I had to modify a few little items as the Vintage Air kit didn’t place the formed tubes in the same place my Old Air kit did years ago. I had to use the existing two grommets in the radiator bulkhead instead of the snazzy one piece item in the VA kit.

At first I wanted to use single bulkhead fittings on the firewall for looks, but the more I considered the prospect, I realized it was just going to make the connections far more difficult at the evaporator. I would have needed short hoses from the evaporator to the firewall, and the #10 hose would have been extremely troublesome to connect as I have very limited access to get my hands up against the inside of the firewall.

I decided to connect the evaporator hoses directly to the compressor and drier using individual grommets in the firewall instead. I ordered new grommets from Summit on Sunday. They shipped out of Nevada yesterday and arrived today just as I was debating whether to push ahead and use old grungy grommets. Talk about good timing!

I connected the hoses at the evaporator first, to make sure I could. The engine side of the firewall was easy. Each fitting was checked to make sure the o ring was in place, lubed up with the provided oil, and snugged up. The instructions provide torque specs, which seems rather ludicrous as there is no way to tighten the fittings with a torque wrench, but it does give the impression that you shouldn’t go nuts on torque.

After everything else was in place, I installed the safety (Trinary) switch in the port provided on the drier. The last connections were the hard tubes into the drier. I read somewhere that one drop of water is twice the capacity of the receiver drier, so it is imperative to keep it sealed to keep out atmospheric moisture. With the system completed and closed, I moved on to the wiring starting with the safety switch.

While the directions are adequate, it’s really helpful if you already know what you’re doing. The wiring turned out to be far simpler than it seemed. There are 4 wires on the Trinary switch. Two blues, and two black/green wires.

There are 3 wires on the evaporator. One red and white (with a 20 amp inline fuse) for power. A green one to turn the compressor on, and a ground wire. On the power wire I removed the inline fuse holder and connected it to a dedicated 30 amp terminal on the Ron Francis fuse panel. The ground wire was connected to the master ground terminal strip, and the green wire connects to either of the black/green wires on the safety switch.

The other black/green wire runs to the compressor. One blue wires goes to ground, and the other goes to terminal 86 on the fan relay. I did have to remove the relay panel so I could pull the fan relay and figure out which terminal was number 86. That’s all there is to it.

The last items to accomplish were wrapping the large connection at the evaporator with a tar like material they call “press tape”. And the final step was drilling the floor and installing drain hoses from the lower rear corners of the evaporator case to the newly punched holes in the floor. Their recommendation was to drill one hole, and connect both sides of the case with a T in the drain hose. Because there is so much distance between the floor and the dash, I thought the single hose with a T looked stupid. I asked my wife to come look for a second opinion, and she thought it looked stupid too. It looked like some type of metal cart handle laying on the floor, so I drilled a hole on each side of the tunnel and ran individual drain hoses like they did on the original 1960 dealer installed A/C units:




It’s now ready for an appointment to have the system vacuumed and charged. I’m really glad my part of the A/C installation is completed, and there were no surprises or disasters.

I still have a few little things to clean up – like rotating the upper heater hose clamp, reinstalling the defrost diverter and the glovebox, and building a support for the tubes under the battery tray. Pretty minor considering all the other stuff this project has required.

[Captainfab]

I stopped by your truck twice, but no one was around. The first time, I was looking, I didn't realize it was your truck.......it sure looked familar though :LOL: Then Mark told me whose truck it was. I hope you do make it again next year. There should be more members present then.

Originally Posted by rustbucket66

I didn't get to meet Captain Fab though, maybe next year. .

[rustbucket66]

Too bad we didn't cross paths, there was so much to see there that I didn't hang around my own as much as I should have. I was hoping to meet Dr. Bomp also. Maybe next year we can hook up. We saw a collection in your hometown called Mortensens. Wow, the people I was with dragged me away from there kicking and screaming. There was so much cool stuff there, and cars I had never seen before, and some of their builds they had going on were cool also. Maybe you know those guys.

[markeb01]

This morning I set an appointment to have the A/C vacuumed and charged Friday. I also loosened and rotated the upper heater hose clamp at the firewall, so nothing sharp is near the lower A/C hose:



I fabricated a support for the hard lines under the battery using a length of the old radiator X rod. The upper end attaches to 2 Adel clamps that hold the tubes together. The lower end is clamped to frame with another Adel clamp. The rod is made of very soft steel. It was easily cut with a saw and bent to about 45 degrees with no fractures. (It was actually bent to 90 degrees, and later modified to half that angle for better fit). Here it is in place doing its job:



Since I don’t have a glovebox at the moment, I put the insurance and registration paperwork in a Ziploc bag and stuck it to the inside of the glovebox door with a magnet. I’m already putting my mind to what I want to work on next.

[markeb01]

I knew if I spent enough time I’d come up with something to spend money on. Turns out the stock plastic knobs on the evaporator pop right off, and I can replace them with a pair of aluminum ball knobs to match all the others on the dash. Here’s a photo with a spare knob replacing the upper factory item. A new pair are on the way!

[piratexpress1369a]

looking clean ,,i see some cool running on your next trip lol

[markeb01]

Yesterday was a mixed bag, I got the Air Conditioner serviced, but it took all day and I had to get angry and knock some heads together to get it accomplished. But I got it back before the close of business and the system works beautifully.

What didn’t work so well was the A/C system turning the fan on. I followed what little factory directions are provided, but they didn’t make sense to me. I was able to run it manually by turning the adjustment knob to the stop, which allowed them to finish testing the system.

Hours of internet research later, I discovered that many vehicles with both A/C and an electric fan require a separate relay for each. Ultimately I ignored the blue wire connections from the trinary switch and took power from the green wire heading to the Trinary switch from the evaporator (the wire that powers the compressor) and sent it to the switch terminal on a separate relay. The 87 (output) terminal from that relay was sent to a dedicated terminal on the fan module for compressor feed. Now when the on/off knob on the evaporator is activated, the fan comes on automatically as it must.

We took it for a ride today and certainly enjoyed having the windows rolled up and the cool interior with the A/C on low speed and cooling barely on. It was only 78 degrees out, but it was nice to have the benefit of air anyway. It looks like we have 2-3 more days coming next week in the high 80’s, so hopefully we’ll be able to give it a better work out before winter and see if a more efficient fan is needed before next summer.

I’m looking into whether a dual Spal fan would be a good investment compared to a new radiator. The radiator I have is a 1958 Air Conditioned Impala radiator, and it will hold the engine at 180 or below when moving. But in stop and sit traffic it can climb well over 200 mainly because the Flexalite Black Magic fan shroud only covers about 60 percent of the radiator.

[64shortbox]

Mark,
I don't know if you have any Pick N Pull's near you but have you thought about using a Mark VIII electric cooling fan in your truck? Labor Day is just around the corner and Pick N Pull will be 1/2 off Fri, Sat & Sun. I used a Mark VIII fan in my 64 C10 and even in 105 degree heat I can idle all day long with the A/C on and it stays at 160 deg. I made my mounting brackets using sheet stainless because that's what's available at the plant I work at but some brackets could be made using 1/16 X 2" angle and 3/8" pvc for spacers. Here's some pictures of the fan in my 64 C10. Regular price on a single fan assembly is $32.00 shroud & all so you can walk out of there with your wallet only lightened by $16.00 next weekend. I bought a Derels 160 thermostat switch from Summit to kick the fan on and used a Volvo fan relay (from Pick N Pull) to handle the amp draw of the fan. Bring a cordless drill battery & a couple of test leads to test the fan before you buy it and all should be good. Just a thought.

[markeb01]

Outstanding! Thanks so much for the input. I like that idea far more than spending hundreds of dollars on something new. Since the supply of old trucks like ours dried up, I haven't stepped foot in a wrecking yard in years. That was one of my favorite haunts for decades.

I also don't really want to go to dual fans, I'd rather have one monster sized unit like what you have. I'm not sure what flavor of Pick a Part, U Pull It, or whatever we have, but even full price would be a bargain. I'll be sure to bring the tool battery like you mentioned, and some test leads. Can't say how much I appreciate the tip. Thanks again!

[likaroc13]

Glad the A/C is up & functioning for ya. Yep, even the '88-98 fullsize Chevy guys are using the Mark VIII when it comes to electric fans. I plan to add one to my '97 Tahoe eventually. One thing I came to find out is that it pulls a good bit of amps, so I'll need to upgrade my alternator (stock 105 amp) when the time comes. It's been a little while back, but if I'm not mistaken I came across a thread where some of the '67-72 C-10 guys used a single fan from a Jeep Cherokee as well. I can't remember the details & would have to research again to find it. Might be worth looking into also.

[64shortbox]

Mark,
Since you're considering a Mark VIII fan I'll supply you with more detailed information since I only hit on the main stuff. Glad I'm actually able to help you out for a change. I've stolen MANY ideas from you that you've shared in your build thread. Some people go with the Mark VIII fan and some use the Ford Taurus fan but I felt the Lincoln fan was the better fit for our trucks. In the picture the Taurus fan is on the left Mark VIII on the right. Some people say the Mark VIII fan is a 2 speed fan others say it's a single speed fan. I pulled a total of 3 on 1/2 off day and all Mark VIII fans were single speed even though they had 3 leads coming out of it. See the second picture down. If you go with the Mark VIII fan you want one out of a 1993-1998 Mark VIII. Taurus fans from 1988-1995 these are true 2 speed fans. I used a Volvo fan relay. They are set up for 2 speed fans but I only used 1 circuit off it for my Mark VIII fan. The Volvo relays should be plentiful used from 1992-2004 but it took me a while to find where they mounted them. Facing the front of the car wrap your left hand over the fan shroud almost like you're trying to stick your fingers in the fan and slide it towards the passenger side of the car. The relay just slides into the shroud. When you find it just grab it and pull it straight out towards the firewall. They will either be mounted there or down low near the passenger side headlight. Get the plug and clip as much of the leads as you can get. The Mark VIII fan motor is riveted to the fan shroud so while it was out I drilled out the rivets and installed 1/4" X 20 bolts incase I ever had to replace the fan motor down the road. I used a Derale fan control switch Summit Racing. On @ 180 off @ 165. Here's the Summit link http://www.summitracing.com/parts/der-16730
Here's where it gets a little difficult. The Volvo relay uses a ground to activate the fan. I used a Bosch style relay to complete the ground to the Derale switch when the ignition is "ON". Then from the other connector on the Derale switch out to the ground wire on the Volvo relay. I did the same thing trip the fan when the A/C is on. Vintage Air (what I have) says to trip the cooling fan only when the A/C clutch is engaged so from the hot lead to the A/C clutch I used another Bosch style relay to complete the ground when the A/C compressor kicks in and the ground to the Volvo relay. Clear as mud? If you or anyone has any questions please feel free to ask. You might have a much better way of doing this but this is the best way I could think of. The Volvo fan relay and harness along with the Bosch style relays kind of "fell" into my pockets while at the wrecking yard the day I got the Mark VIII fans.
I did have to trim & notch the Mark VIII shroud to clear the radiator tanks and upper & lower hoses but it fit darn good. After the pictures were taken I pulled the fan shroud again and used a 2" flap disc to better round out around the radiator hoses & make it look Purdy.

[markeb01]

Very helpful and informative. I've been reading about these conversions all morning. There's a lot to consider. Seems everybody uses these fans, Corvette guys, Chevy guys, truck guys, etc. I'll just have to do more research on the amp draw etc. Found a couple of very thorough sites on this topic too - this is probably the most comprehensive:

http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=136722

All the input is really appreciated. And thanks for that 2nd photo. I've heard the inspection cover mentioned in several threads, but never got a good enough view to see what they were talking about.

[64shortbox]

Mark,
Wish I found that link you provided when I was looking into my Mark VIII installation. That clears up the 2 speed/1 speed controversy. Apparently every fan I pulled came off a 93-96 Mark VIII. I was also worried about the amp draw of these fans - I never found any real proof as to what these fans actually draw while running & I've heard as high as 80 amps. The Volvo relay is only rated @ 30 amps but If I remember correctly had an 8 gauge supply wire into it and two 10 gauge wires running out from it to the fan. I did run an 8 gauge wire to the Volvo relay and the Mark VIII fan has 10 gauge wires running to it. I did upgrade to an internally regulated 120 amp alternator off eBay for $79.00. I didn't necessarily want a chrome alternator - more shiny stuff to keep polished but for the price I got it. Again here's a link to what I bought http://www.ebay.com/itm/GM-CHROME-12...7e74c4&vxp=mtr
I can tell you this - my C10 pulled our 28' travel trailer around town great and stayed @ 160 degrees or close to it as near as I could tell with the factory temperature gauge - BUT my C10 Did NOT Like towing our 28' 5,000 lb trailer at freeway speeds in 100 degree heat with the A/C on - or off for that matter. It got pretty darn HOT! Not pegged but past the 3/4 Hot mark on the gauge. When I checked in at the campground I left my wife in the truck with the A/C on & by the time I got back out to the truck the temp dropped to almost the 1/2 way mark. The electric cooling fan ran the whole trip going down the freeway about an hours drive to the camp ground (my shake down cruise for the truck & trailer) I grabbed the fan hot leads and they weren't any hotter than any of the other wiring under the hood including the ground wires. I'm not really sure what amperage the Mark VIII fans pull but I'm pretty certain the Volvo relay will handle the load. Until I get more freeway time under my belt (once I get a bigger radiator) I'll know for sure. For now though I do keep an extra Volvo fan relay in my glove box. It seems several of those relays fell in my pockets.

[markeb01]

Love that rig. The two pieces look great together! Your alternator looks like the last one I had installed. The only difference was it had a Powermaster sticker on it and cost over twice as much. It was 100 amps, and lasted exactly 5 years when it stopped working. The previous alternator was a non-chrome Powermaster and lasted exactly 5 years when it died. My current model is a Napa brand 65 amp unit with a lifetime warranty.

I may or may not need more output depending on which fan(s) I go with, as I don't have much electrical draw in the car. All there is being the fuel pump, heater, and A/C blower. I don't even have a radio, so 65 amps may be enough.

[markeb01]

I’ve been in love with Covico steering wheels since before I was old enough to drive. And to make matters worse, Monogram put a very realistic replica in the original Big Deuce kit back in 63 or 64. Every time I see my Covico wheel lying around, I get anxious to put it back in the truck. This afternoon I couldn’t stand it anymore, and went ahead and did just that:





Although they aren’t as practical for visibility I prefer the appearance of the broader, evenly spaced spokes, 3 holes in those spokes instead of 4, the shallower dish, and the ½” smaller diameter of the rim compared to the new 15” Moon wheels.

We then hopped in took it for an hour long spin. I’m sorry to report that glancing around the cab, it looked so bad even I couldn’t put up with it. Adding the new chrome steering column, glove box emblem, and A/C evaporator trim ruined the Covico wheel. It just looks shabby now, and I’ve got the best one I’ve even seen. In the photos it looks pretty good, but looking directly at the surface it looks dull, flat, and scratched. In flash photos it looks rusty. The red wheel was back in the truck 10 minutes after we returned home, and the Covico will go on permanent display. I’m thinking of making a shadow box for it, along with a steering wheel out of the Big Deuce kit, and one of the old Cal Custom wing nuts that looks just like the spokes and horn button.

[65Gregg]

Congratulations on the A/C install Mark, great write up as usual. Can someone post the dimensions of the Taurus and Lincoln fan shrouds? Thanks.

[Ta2Don]

Diggin' the Shadow Box Idea!

[markeb01]

I’m thinking the shadow box might be fun. I’ve got another one with some antique silver jewelry, and my 1851 Navy cap and ball revolver. The bummer is I used a cheap display box from Michael’s so the gun can’t easily be removed for cleaning without disassembling the whole thing! Replacing the case with a better version that can be opened is also on the agenda.

For the Covico steering wheel, I’m also thinking of including many of the early speed parts I loved from the Big T and Big Deuce kits. The reversed rims from the T, the original M&H slicks, Moon pedal, etc. I never run out of things to work on!


Well today was a big day, my wife’s birthday! I wanted to do something really special for her, something completely out of the ordinary we’d never done before, and something she really wanted. So we made a day of taking her to the Grand Cooley Dam in the truck for a picnic lunch. We both had a great time and made it home in a still functioning state. This is the longest trip I’ve made in over 15 years (205 miles round trip). I’ve been working real hard to get in better shape so we could do more things like this together, and it appears to be working!

Here’s the birthday girl herself:



And here she is again putting up with me:



This is just a shot of the truck:



And here it is in front of the dam face:



This shows the reservoir above the dam:



If all goes well and they actually hold one this year, we’ll be at the Bob’s Car Show in Newport next Monday. I’m sure enjoying these road trips. They may seem awfully short to others but I’m really enjoying being out on the road with my squeeze, going anywhere and having fun together.

[markeb01]

Oh yes, and the wonderful new air conditioner worked great – for almost 30 minutes. It took several hours of disassembly and diagnosis after we got home to determine the rotary thermostat on the evaporator failed. Under no setting will it send any power down the green wire to the compressor, via the trinary safety switch. I finally pulled the faceplate off the evaporator and tested the terminals directly to confirm the problem. I’m thinking perhaps the capillary tube was damaged in shipment when the assembler left one of the two screws out of the center strap, allowing both vents to be pushed into the internal fins. Perhaps that pierced the tube causing the thermostat to fail. We’ll see what Vintage Air says tomorrow.

[Ta2Don]

Great Pics of the Missus and the Truck and you up at the Dam...

Bummer about the AC, Sure you will get it remedied quick...

[markeb01]

A simple phone call this morning, and a new thermostat is on the way. Can't get much easier than that. So far everything has been a positive experience, even customer service! These guys should be a model for others to study.

[61K10]

64 sb--a friend had a problem going down the freeway like you. the e-fan was blocking the air at speed. turn the fan off and eng cooled down some. this was in a willy's with a blown bb. might want to try this. nice tk and rig.

Marke--glad you are getting the A/C worked out. would love to add it to my tk some day (if i ever get it on the road lol) might have too many shifters to go under dash. love the look though-----

[doobiebro]

Awsome pics of the road trip Mark. Me and the misses are planning some road trips with the old truck in the near future also

[markeb01]

It sure is a lot of fun. I really miss not driving it as much as I used to. Only problem with road trips in the truck is the 4.10 rear end gears. At 60-70 mph it gets about 10 mpg, but it sure does accelerate nicely - at any speed and in any gear!

I keep trying to convince my wife what we really need is a champ quick change rear end for about 3 grand. Then a simple gear flip and we'd be on our way to Bonneville. Of course I haven't mentioned that to get a decent highway gear, the low gear would be well into the 5's, which would probably drop my top speed to about 50 mph!

It never occurred to me that it would be much cheaper to swap the rear end gears, or go to an overdrive trans! Since those options have never occurred to me, we haven't discussed those possibilities yet!!

[markeb01]

One more minor achievement for the night. The new pair of ball knobs arrived today, and were bored out to ¼” to fit the switch shafts. A bit of silicone spray sure goes a long way to keep the aluminum cutting moving forward. I think this may be the first time in my entire life all the knobs on my hot rod dashboard match. I added the new pair to the evaporator, and the spare I had left over replaced the lever knob on the heater fan switch. It was originally a 54 Chevy truck wiper knob that matched the original door handles. Now that they are gone, and the switch moved to the far right and operates clockwise, it looked kind of goofy being used, as the lever ended up very close to the toggle switch next to it:



Now everything with a rotary or push/pull function has the same knob – headlights, wipers, washers, choke, defroster, heater fan and the A/C controls. Even the turn signals and emergency flasher switch have ball knobs. Here’s a close up:



The bottom knob on the evaporator looks smaller, but it’s just an optical illusion caused by the two color background. I’m thinking of changing those stickers to something more custom if I can come up with something clever that looks better.