![]() |
![]() |
#151 |
At the body shop.
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Land of fruits and nuts.
Posts: 5,222
|
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
Had a similar hesitation 950 hp double pump, but primary side is a near cousin.
Mine wanted a bigger cam, orange maybe. Tried a black cam. Too much would like to flood with 2-3 pumps
__________________
" That didnt make it any newer " " Dont antique the equipment " |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#152 |
Post Whore
![]() Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 10,835
|
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#153 |
At the body shop.
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Land of fruits and nuts.
Posts: 5,222
|
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
It's only 850 cfm for real, but my drag race 406 sbc.
__________________
" That didnt make it any newer " " Dont antique the equipment " |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#154 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DALLAS,TX
Posts: 21,982
|
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
Quote:
__________________
67SWB-B.B.RetroRod 64SWB-Recycle 89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck 99CCSWB Driver All Fleetsides @rattlecankustoms in IG Building a small, high rpm engine with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive. It's like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar..... Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#155 |
Post Whore
![]() Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 10,835
|
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
Man, I had a Dyno Test scheduled for a Tuesday and so on Saturday the weekend prior I decided to check the fluids and spark plugs, and things took a turn for the worst, I found the #5 spark plug all fouled up [again] with major carbon deposits...
so I did what any frustrated Hot Rodder would do I tore the engine all apart to investigate, you can follow along here on my build called Restoring Rusty ... |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#156 |
Post Whore
![]() Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 10,835
|
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
well with the engine all back together, new rings, new con rod bearings, it's time to start tuning all over again
no worries it is a great way to firm up our tuning skills so we start with the distributor, and please if you have not read anything about setting ignition timing, read the following two articles by John Hinckley or if you read everything about timing and are more confused than a blind goat on astroturf again please give these two easy reads a go Timing And Vacuum Advance 101 MAPPING YOUR ADVANCE CURVE Spoiler Alert - my two take aways were: 1. you need more advance at idle/cruise than at wide open throttle |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#157 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SK, Canada
Posts: 488
|
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
Thanks for posting all that. I hope you're able to get such a good result again after the rebuild.
__________________
Evan B. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#158 |
F’B’D guy
![]() Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Texas/Maine
Posts: 2,220
|
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
Now that! was a most impressive read.
Thanks for taking us down that road, that was a lot of work. After reading this I just might try and tackle some tuning on one (or more) of the trucks I have. This is something I never would of considered doing prior to reading your thread...and I've been messin with these trucks for 40 years, not as a real mechanic, but a jackleg mechanic ![]() *Jackleg ~ lacking skill or training : amateur <a jackleg carpenter> ~ designed as a temporary expedient : makeshift |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#159 | |
Post Whore
![]() Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 10,835
|
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
Quote:
So to be honest with you I am still to get the carb dialed in after the new piston rings went on. It's about 80% there. Not to make any excuses but I swear the temperature has dropped 40° since last time I toyed with it. Seems like we went from Summer to Winter with only about 2 weeks of Fall, ha ha So we are reminded of the three evil sisters when it comes to performance, Temperature, Humidity, and Elevation. Now I am in Sacramento, CA so at least Elevation stays the same for the most part, I think we are at sea level or about 9 feet above. I already mentioned that temperatures went from 80° F the last time I tuned the carb to 40° F and that is a huge change (cold weather packs in more air, the molecules are closer together or something like that) so your truck tends to run leaner in the winter if you don't give it a little attitude adjustment (think idle mix screws and turn them counter clockwise a quarter turn or so) Well the humidy don't help either, and it don't have to be raining to be at 100% humidity, that don't help either that makes the truck run richer as there is water in the air and therefor less air enters the carb, since each air molecule has a water buddy hanging out with it type a thing. but stay tuned, (pun intended) I am about to go Def Con 4 on this ol' Holley! So the only problem is when I start rolling in first gear and accelerate to go into second, the carb leans out to say 20 AFR(ish) way too lean It could be one of many things, but I am thinking the vacuum secondaries are opening up too soon now and I need to go to a harder / tougher spring Last edited by Gregski; 12-11-2016 at 02:39 AM. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#160 |
Post Whore
![]() Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 10,835
|
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
if you get in the Holley carb tuning game you might also have a full drawer that looks like this, ha ha
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#161 |
Post Whore
![]() Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 10,835
|
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
so just a quick update, I replaced the vacuum secondary spring with a stiffer Purple one to delay when the secondary butterflies open, and took the truck for a test drive, and it accelerated much better, so I will drive it to work for a week and report back on how it performs
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#162 |
Post Whore
![]() Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 10,835
|
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
I also noticed that I was idling really rich at 11/10 AFR (left and right banks) can you tell why, here's a hint
HUMIDITY: When I started the test drive it was at 99% by the time I finished and took the pic of the weather on my phone it said 90%, still incredibly high |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#163 |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PNW
Posts: 3,597
|
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
Hey Greg, what a great compilation of information! To be honest with you, when you mentioned the AFR gauge in your other thread, I thought, ok, but it seems kinda gimmicky to me. Man I was wrong. Really cool how you were able to dial out the hesitations and significantly improve your gas mileage. I look forward to learning how to set up a portable system that I can move from vehicle to vehicle. Keep on it man, this is cool.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#164 | |
Post Whore
![]() Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 10,835
|
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#165 |
Post Whore
![]() Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 10,835
|
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
Well its been a while since I updated and with the Holiday season behind us its time to get back into it. Today I replaced my 6.5 Power Valve with a 10.5 one. I believe that is the biggest one. Why did I do that? Well I noticed that I get incredibly high vacuum at part throttle, 19 to 20 inches of mercury I guess its called not PSI for vacuum. So as I am cruising around at part throttle say at 45 MPH I am pulling that much vacuum. The problem being when I give it gas my engine leans out to like 20 AFR way too lean and the car stumbles until it catches up on fuel
Now don't get me wrong vacuum is good, vacuum is the central nervous system of pre Electronic Fuel Injection (EFI) cars, however the Power Valve needs to be tuned accordingly. So what the heck is a Power Valve and what does it do? Well I heard it called an economy valve and I tend to buy into that nomenclature. The Power Valve is a spring loaded diaphragm helper a little assistant (see earlier Post #125). As you are cruising around at part throttle the car is not under very much load, its pretty easy to roll the car around once its rolling, somewhere I read it only takes like 25 horse power. You ever push a heavy something and once it started rolling you could just keep pushing it with one hand. Well same idea here. Anyway there you are cruising around and all of a sudden you give it more gas to speed up for what ever reason, maybe you are on a freeway onramp and need to merge into traffic. What happens in the carb? Well the butterflies fling open and a ton of air rushes into the carb. But wait what about the gasoline? Well air moves much faster than gas, so your carb goes lean, way lean until the gasoline catches up. So its the Power Valves job to flow more gas and what tells it to do so is vacuum, more precisely a drop in vacuum. The numbers on the Power Valve tell at what vacuum the power valve will open. So as my vacuum drops from 20 to 19 to 18... I had to wait until it dropped to 6.5 before my old Power Valve would let more gasoline into the intake manifold. Now I only have to wait until the vacuum drops to 10.5 I think the reason that the Power Valve is dubbed the economy valve is that its like a gatekeeper it prevents too much gas flowing through when you don't need it (cruising) and more to flow through when you accelerate but based on the vacuum signal and not your right foot. The Accelerator pump reacts to your foot if you mash the pedal it will squirt, if you gently press your gas pedal slowly down to the floor the accelerator pump may not even squirt at all, yet when the vacuum drops beyond a certain level 6.5 or 10.5 that Power Valve is opening. hope that makes some sense, please correct me if I am wrong Last edited by Gregski; 01-21-2017 at 09:16 PM. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#166 |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Beautiful BC, Canada, eh?!
Posts: 2,231
|
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
I've never heard it called an economy valve, but your understanding of how it works is reasonable.
One of the ways I describe it all is this: You want a good, perfect idle, so you make the idle fuel ports adjustable with mixture screws so you can make it perfect. You want good full throttle power, so you make the main jets big enough to feed the engine for full power. Except that will be too much fuel for good economy when cruising, so we create a valve that can restrict most of that fuel for when you're cruising. On your Holley, it's a Power Valve. On a Q-Jet, it's the metering rods and power piston spring. --- Curious - what is your idle vacuum reading? It is often recommended to have the power valve open at half your idle vacuum reading.
__________________
1961 Apache: "Grabber Orange" Shortboxed, pancake, step-notch, air-ride, boosted-LS 1977 Silverado: Shortboxed & dropped, potato-potato V8 Pontiac Firefly (Chevy Sprint): The ultimate engine swap: 5.7L in a 1.0L bag Lotus Super 7 Replica: Scratch-built street-legal rollerskate |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#167 | |
Post Whore
![]() Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 10,835
|
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#168 |
Post Whore
![]() Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 10,835
|
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
Great question, and I have seen that formula as well, my highest steady vacuum at idle of 900 RPM is 20 inches, yes that high, so the 10.5 Power Valve makes sense, I think maybe I could use or try the 9.5 but they were sold out of that one.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#169 | |
Post Whore
![]() Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 10,835
|
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
Quote:
Dave Emanuel mentions it in his Super Tuning and Modifying HOLLEY Carburetors book, great read, he is a funny guy and explains things wonderfully, highly recommend one of his books |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#170 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 75
|
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
Quote:
__________________
Everything that can be counted does not necessarily counts; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted--Albert Einstein |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#171 |
Post Whore
![]() Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 10,835
|
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
its been a while since I updated, if you follow my Restoring Rusty thread you may be aware that we had to move again, I swear if you want to sell your house let us rent it from you, it will sell ASAP, ha ha
anyway finally got the center hung float bowls with proper sight glasses on the carb and a proper dual inlet fuel line setup, can't wait to tune it now mounted it on with a 1" four hole plastic spacer and had to use 2 1/2" studs cause the 2" I had were still too short the spacer is a good idea and some would say the taller the better, and if you got the space like we do in these trucks under the hood, why not try it, it keeps the heat off the intake manifold away from the carb and gives the air/fuel mixture a longer path to mingle properly on its way down Last edited by Gregski; 09-25-2018 at 08:11 PM. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#172 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PNW
Posts: 3,597
|
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
Had me laughing here:
Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#173 | |
Post Whore
![]() Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 10,835
|
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#174 |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Beautiful BC, Canada, eh?!
Posts: 2,231
|
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
Actual question I put on a printed Fuel System Quiz:
14) Spell "Stoichiometric" a. Stoechiometric b. Stoikiometric c. Stoicheometric d. Stoichiometric Nobody got it right.
__________________
1961 Apache: "Grabber Orange" Shortboxed, pancake, step-notch, air-ride, boosted-LS 1977 Silverado: Shortboxed & dropped, potato-potato V8 Pontiac Firefly (Chevy Sprint): The ultimate engine swap: 5.7L in a 1.0L bag Lotus Super 7 Replica: Scratch-built street-legal rollerskate |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#175 |
Post Whore
![]() Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 10,835
|
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
Bookmarks |
|
|