72 C20 "Old Mustard"

[Mustard72]

I stood around and stared at the frame for probably 1.5-2 hours this afternoon trying to figure out whether or not I should try to repair it. I think I could probably do it, but it would involve TONS of dinking around getting the bends right for the relatively large amounts of frame that would have to be removed, getting the mounting points taking into consideration for the bed mounts, cross members, panhard rod, spring mounts, etc. Plus, I've only got a 120V MIG welder at this point, which is probably on the light side for welding in sections of framework (particularly in these higher stressed locations).

I was a bit optimistic when I came in after my standing around and staring session and immediately found a couple of C20 rolling chassis' in California for pretty good prices, but I wasn't able to find anything around here on line. I'll call around to the junk yards early next week to see what I can dig up.

[sduckworth13]

Nick, I found one for you he doesn't have a price on it though.
http://eauclaire.craigslist.org/cto/3665587285.html

[Mustard72]

Thanks, Scott. I checked the Eau Claire CL, too, and didn't see that one. Must've been looking for just the chassis or something. I'll check it out. Thorp is only about an hour from here. 4X4 upgrade would be pretty cool.

[mjensen]

Sorry to read about your frame. Hopefully you can find a good replacement. How about a tube chassis

[Mustard72]

lol. During the stand and stare phase, the thought of tubing the back half of the frame did cross my mind. Nevertheless, cooler heads prevailed. Just gotta find a decent replacement.

[mjensen]

I bet you could hear the money burning as you thought through the tubing

[sduckworth13]

Good luck with your frame search Nick, hopefully you can pickup that 4x4 frame for a good price.

[Mustard72]

I've got a few leads now. Plus, I couldn't get through to most of the junk yards I called around here, being Sunday and all. I'll keep you all posted as to what I find. I think I've done about all I can for this search until regular business hours, so I might as well head out to the garage and do something that doesn't involve bolting things back to the frame

[Mustard72]

Messed around with patching up the fenders a bit. The left fender is pretty rough. Not only is it rusted worse than the other one, it's also beat up more (I took out the mail box at the pizza joint and my brother put it into a ditch back when we were in high school).

The patch on the right fender was made from a left over LMC inner rocker that I didn't need with the complete floor pain approach. Folded over the rear edge and bent it to shape. This was also my first attempt at butt welding, as pretty much everything else has been lap welded. Thought it went pretty well, but I must've got it a bit hot, because the welded seam is lower than everything else now. Nothing a little bondo won't fix

I got the idea for the copper spoon in the last pic from somebody on this forum. It's just a hammered flat scrap piece of copper pipe. My personal touch was the scrap piece of threaded rod its crimped and then hammered on to. Pretty cavemanish, but it worked really well on the couple of burn through spots I had.

[Mustard72]

Holy crap, look at the thickness of this bondo on the right side fender!!! What was that PO thinking!!!

Oh, wait a minute. I think I put that on there a couple of months after taking the mail box out at the pizza joint. Come to think of it, the dent from the mail box is full of nice thick bondo, too.

[sduckworth13]

Nice work on the fender patch Nick.

[Mustard72]

Thanks, Scott.

Well, as an update, I'm getting a better left fender (right one was the one patched above) from Scott. Plus I managed to find a rolling chassis in a junkyard around here. They had several trucks from this vintage, and I'm getting a bed off of a different one. The frame is a leaf spring C20 frame with a Dana 60. Forgot to check the axle tube for the ratio, unfortunately. The frame looks really solid compared to mine, with the only significant rust I saw around the parking brake brackets and that skinny cross member behind the axle that I think has something to do with holding up a spare tire or something. I know its a 67-72 GMC, but I didn't even check out what year it was, for whatever reason. The other truck with the bed on it was a 72 with a rotten coil spring frame like mine, but the bed is in better shape (still not great, but better). I paid $1000 for all of this, which includes delivery to my house. I probably overpaid for all of this stuff, but it was the only stuff that was quickly available with a complete rear suspension/axle and doesn't require taking up a whole additional day going back to get it. The going to get it part isn't as bad as all the running around getting my Dad's truck and a trailer from a buddy at work, all of whom live a ways away in different directions. Lots of driving around without actual cargo=squandered opportunity in my book. I squander enough opportunity unintentionally, I certainly don't need to plan it into the project, too

I'm kicking myself for leaving my phone (camera) in the car when we got to this junk yard. Its FULL of OLD cars and trucks. These early 70s trucks are on the new side compared to most of what he has, which is predominantly from the 40s-60s. I think there was something like 30 acres of cars. Never been in a yard like it.

I'll post some pics when it gets delivered, theoretically some time next week. I only paid $250 down, so there is incentive to the yard to get it delivered. We'll see how this goes. I don't like being dependent on someone else's schedule, but I weighed the delivery thing against spending the time it would take to go back and get the stuff when I could be working on stuff back here at home.

Time for bed....

[sduckworth13]

No problem Nick, glad to help you out. Let me know if you need anything else.
Posted via Mobile Device

[gdavis]

Originally Posted by Mustard72

Thanks, Scott.

Well, as an update, I'm getting a better left fender (right one was the one patched above) from Scott. Plus I managed to find a rolling chassis in a junkyard around here. They had several trucks from this vintage, and I'm getting a bed off of a different one. The frame is a leaf spring C20 frame with a Dana 60. Forgot to check the axle tube for the ratio, unfortunately. The frame looks really solid compared to mine, with the only significant rust I saw around the parking brake brackets and that skinny cross member behind the axle that I think has something to do with holding up a spare tire or something. I know its a 67-72 GMC, but I didn't even check out what year it was, for whatever reason. The other truck with the bed on it was a 72 with a rotten coil spring frame like mine, but the bed is in better shape (still not great, but better). I paid $1000 for all of this, which includes delivery to my house. I probably overpaid for all of this stuff, but it was the only stuff that was quickly available with a complete rear suspension/axle and doesn't require taking up a whole additional day going back to get it. The going to get it part isn't as bad as all the running around getting my Dad's truck and a trailer from a buddy at work, all of whom live a ways away in different directions. Lots of driving around without actual cargo=squandered opportunity in my book. I squander enough opportunity unintentionally, I certainly don't need to plan it into the project, too

I'm kicking myself for leaving my phone (camera) in the car when we got to this junk yard. Its FULL of OLD cars and trucks. These early 70s trucks are on the new side compared to most of what he has, which is predominantly from the 40s-60s. I think there was something like 30 acres of cars. Never been in a yard like it.

I'll post some pics when it gets delivered, theoretically some time next week. I only paid $250 down, so there is incentive to the yard to get it delivered. We'll see how this goes. I don't like being dependent on someone else's schedule, but I weighed the delivery thing against spending the time it would take to go back and get the stuff when I could be working on stuff back here at home.

Time for bed....

Too bad you don't live near me. I have a rolling chassis with front sup sand blasted and painted black. Front sup has had upper and lower ball joints replaced. The rear end has been sand blasted and painted black it is a6 lug system. The seals has also been replaced on the axles. Only asking 500.00 The frame is in great shape. I went in a different directin.

[Mustard72]

Yeah, GDavis, I know about your roller. That's a great deal. It's about what you'd pay for a rolling chassis around here, typically (I paid too much), but yours has already had lots of work done to it. Somebody will give it a good home.

Believe me, at this time of year I wish I lived closer to you, too. The snow is getting old, but I think it's about done now. I know, I know, I wouldn't want to be down there working on a truck in the middle of the summer.

Man you are flying along on your truck.

[sduckworth13]

Too bad I didn't know you would be needing a frame and a nice bed sooner too Nick. I would have gave you my parts truck frame and it had a bed in excellent shape on it. Vic has the bed now for his project.

[Mustard72]

Yeah, my Dad was over today, too, and he and my Mom just got back home from their vacation out west. They came through Kansas on their way back. Would have made shipping a bit easier if I'd have been thinking... They didn't go through KC, though.

That was a 1/2 ton frame, wasn't it? I'm sticking with the 3/4 ton version. It's a bit beefier for towing with. The bed would have been awesome, though. This one I'm getting isn't all that great, and it was a bit of an impulsive buy. Kinda stupid, I know, but I was under the influence and riding on a bit of a high from being in that junk yard Still, it's better than the one I have, which I don't think is really worth fixing up. Come to think of it, though, Mustard really wasn't worth fixing up, either. Mustard is like a member of the family, though.

[sduckworth13]

Yes, it was a 1/2 ton I had. You got Mustard's in good shape now, soon to be ready for another 40 yrs.

[Mustard72]

Hoo boy, I'm behind on my updates. Anyway, before getting the "new" rolling chassis, I worked on the fenders a bit. The rotted out old chassis served as a work bench to support the fenders. Not a really good workbench, but a workbench nonetheless. My Pop worked on one of the doors, as well. He seems to enjoy the wire brush on the 4.5" grinder I'm going to replace all of the door seals on the doors and replace what door skins that need to be replaced, but the lower inner steel will probably only be "neutralized" and painted for now, with possible replacement at a later date. I've got two decent fenders well on their way towards completion now, too. I wasn't planning on doing this fender and door work for a few weeks yet, but the frame thing kind of put a kibosh (not sure if I spelled that right) on the plan.

[Mustard72]

Put the fenders back in the heated woodshop area for further priming/rust conversion (on the insides)/ etc., and finished stripping down the old chassis to get it out of the way for the "new" roller. This only involved removing the exhaust system and parking brake cables, so it wasn't too big of a job before hooking it up to the engine hoist and engine stand to haul it out of the garage. One of the attached pics shows the old chassis "moving towards the light", somewhat similar to an end of life thing. At least that's what I though of when I saw the pic. Had some help from my 10 year old daughter in getting the old frame out of the garage. We hauled out the old bed, too, as the "new" roller is coming with a bed, as well. I've now crossed a "line" with the project, and have started accumulating things out in the driveway. And they're not particularly pretty things. Rotten truck frame, rusty old bed.... My son and I hauled the old 3 speed manual tranny out there, too. The steel floor bed ended up out there eventually, too. I've tried avoiding having stuff pile up in the driveway, and managed to be successful until this point. I've piled a few things next to the garage, but that is somewhat hidden compared to being out in the open on the driveway. I live right in town, and my driveway is somewhat short, so having the stuff out there isn't what I want long term, but it's out there for now at least until the snow melts or until I get Mustard done so I can haul it or something. I'll probably need the chassis and bed for certain parts to get Mustard done, anyway.

[Mustard72]

Also got the "new" roller, as promised, on Monday. They included a core support with the deal, as well, mostly because I think they just might not have wanted to remove it. It's in better shape than the original one from Mustard, with only rot on the inner fender connection flange under the battery tray. It's a GMC version, though, which I think is only different because of the headlight mounts, which I think I can just swap around. Drill out the spot welds and either weld or bolt the chevy one to the GMC core support. I might have to have the front clip somewhat assembled to do this to make sure it goes back together with the proper alignment. Anybody have any input on this?

I now have the rear axle removed and am working on replacing the midship cross member. The new roller has the larger midship bearing, and the driveshaft that was included is basically junk. The one from Mustard was just all rebuild a couple of years ago and is essentially new, so I'll reuse that one and it appears to be a different cross member. So I'll yank the one off of the old Mustard frame. The front cab mounts look better on Mustard, as well. The rear axle on the new frame is a Dana 60 with 4.10 gears, which are much better for what we're planning with Mustard than the 4.57's in the Eaton, I think.

The leaf spring frames (which the "new" frame is) don't have the cladding on the inside of the frame rails above the rear axles like the coil spring frames. This appears to be much less problematic from a corrosion standpoint. The "new" frame has some rust issues, as it turns out, but nothing like the original coil spring frame.

[Mustard72]

Here are some shots of this "new" frame. It's ended up needing quite a bit of work, too, but nothing near as bad as the old one. The one pic tries to show the deep pitting on the bottom of the rail just behind the mid-ship bearing crossmember. I replaced that. I thought I took a picture, but apparently I didn't save it. The crossmember between the front leaf spring mounts was pretty rotten on the ends and the frame showed some rot where this cross member connected, as well. So I replaced the rotten sections of frame rail and actually boxed those little sections so I can mount a heavy angle cross member. Cut, cut, cut, grind, grind, grind, weld, weld, weld. It's getting there, though.

Anything I cut with a torch looks like it was cut by Og or Thak. I should come up with a straight guide for the torch or something. But, it's on the bottom of the truck, and I'll be able to laugh about it in the future when crawling around under there. I should probably grind the crude cavemanish cut edges smoother...

Then the last pic is of the engine at the engine builders. He's obviously almost done with it. 9.0:1, over 0.030, new exhaust valve seats, valve guides, HEI ignition, Summit equivalent of the Melling MTC-1 cam, double roller timing chain. Nothing really fancy, but it should be a great engine for pulling a horse trailer around with. Dyno break in either next week or the week after that. The engine builder builds lots of race motors around here and has an excellent reputation. My little 350 looks kind of meek compared to the built 440 Mopar in the background.

[sduckworth13]

Looks great Nick, nice job on cutting out the rust on the frame. Engine looks great too.

[67c10rustbuket]

Thats a nice new frame, great job on the fix! Man your engine looks sexy. Keep after it Nick

[Mustard72]

Thanks, guys.