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#1876 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Richmond,Va
Posts: 2,934
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Re: Make it handle
I apologize for not having a lot of time to answer your question but a simple solution for bump steer is to move the outer tie rods to the lower side of the spindle.
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Nick Carter 1967 C10 Short bed Fleetside Project Cheap Thrills! 2WD C10 Modern/Performance Alignments Easiest Alignment Ever! |
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#1877 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Burnet,Tx
Posts: 57
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#1878 | |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Goodyear, AZ
Posts: 11
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Re: Make it handle
Quote:
~Ryan |
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#1879 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 146
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Re: Make it handle
Can I get some help with understanding truck suspension?
Meaning, I have a 1984 C10 and a 2015 Toyota Tundra. I love my Tundra's ride and power just fine, so I'd like to replicate it. Not so much get it to handle like a sports car but more of a modern truck. Only suspension improvement I did to my 4.6L SR Tundra was Bilsteins all around and a rear sway bar. So what improvements could I make to closely mimic my Tundra? Example for improving the rear suspension - C10 with new shocks and improved panhard bar = Modern Truck C10 with new shock, leaf springs and trailing arms = Modern Performance Truck C10 with a 4-Link suspension in the rear = Modern Sports Car Am I making sense? What I'm trying to do is improve the truck to be decent handling like a modern truck, I'm not looking for it to act like a Corvette. I thought this might be a good thread to throw out this question. Hope I'm not out of place. Thanks in advance! Rob |
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#1880 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,018
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Re: Make it handle
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#1881 |
Registered User
![]() Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Newhall CA
Posts: 1,195
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Re: Make it handle
I have em in the rear. New wilwood on the front also
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69 SWB 780hp Hellcat powered, manual 6 speed, currie 9 |
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#1882 |
Registered User
![]() Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Newhall CA
Posts: 1,195
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Re: Make it handle
New wilwood spindle and brakes
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69 SWB 780hp Hellcat powered, manual 6 speed, currie 9 |
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#1883 |
56 - autocross
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Camarillo, Ca
Posts: 1,121
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Re: Make it handle
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#1884 |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,018
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Re: Make it handle
Awesome, I'd love to do a dual caliper setup like that in the front. Again though I'd be really curious what the downside is, has to be something or we'd see this more commonly. Seems like it would distribute the stress on the rotor more evenly and might actually reduce rotor warp. One argument might be heat, but I don't see how that changes really from a single huge caliper with more pistons exerting more force is different from a physics standpoint. If I was going to do it I'd probably try and do it with 2 piston aluminum sliders which are way lighter than 6 piston fixed calipers, so the weight would be probably about a break even.
Personally I'd probably pair the front with the same size rotors in the back and a single front caliper. Assuming duals in the front actually provide some significant ratio of improvement that this balance make sense. Hmmm. |
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#1885 |
Collector of Projects
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 3,106
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Re: Make it handle
I think the Audi R8 has dual calipers in the rear, one may be an emergency brake.
I would think that the master cylinder would need the appropriate size for all the pistons in both calipers, like you said, no different than one huge 6 piston caliper. I think you might need to split the brake line and feed both calipers rather than in series. This would be great for someone who wants to run smaller wheels and can't fit the big 6 piston calipers... |
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#1886 |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,018
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Re: Make it handle
This revelation sent me on a Google mission, apparently dual calipers are fairly common, but not for the reason at hand. It seems this is a common trick among drifters, with one caliper connected to the pedal and the other connected to individual hand brake levers.
It's also been used on quite a few F1, endurance racers and rally cars. I agree you would probably need to split the lines, vs. series, perhaps even splitting the lines *and* providing an additional pressure balance line from caliper to caliper, just thinking. While I think master cylinder piston volume matters, of course it would, but I am looking at this from a standpoint of using 2 Z51 sliding calipers (2 pistons each) and given that the master is the same as used on Z06 calipers (6 pistons each) I am not sure it wouldn't be something you could deal with, especially in a hydroboost setup. In the grand scheme of things, even the 2 piston Z51 calipers can dead lock a pretty big sticky tire, it's just a matter of how many times it can do it in what period of time. I also wonder about using 2 different pad compounds in a setup like this, where say you use a hot track compound on one inner and one outer, in opposite calipers, and a cooler street compound on the other sides. Sliding calipers should level out the wear, and one on each side of the rotor should even out the temperature. I can see where this could give you extended heat range in your brakes, decent cold stopping and extended resistance to high temp fade. |
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#1887 |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Eastern Iowa
Posts: 423
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Re: Make it handle
What do you suggest for wheels? I really want Forgeline, but they are spendy. What is an economical wheel that will handle the abuse of autocross? What diameter should I run?
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Matt Garage build http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/s...ead.php?t=6784 My slow but sure truck build http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=394924 ![]() My philosophy on tires is the same as cigarettes. "smoke them if you got them" HAPPILY DIVORCED! |
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#1888 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DALLAS,TX
Posts: 21,983
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Re: Make it handle
Weld Racing has a forged series that's popular for those not on a top tier budget.
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67SWB-B.B.RetroRod 64SWB-Recycle 89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck 99CCSWB Driver All Fleetsides @rattlecankustoms in IG Building a small, high rpm engine with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive. It's like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar..... Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol. |
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#1889 |
Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Dandridge, Tn. USA
Posts: 2,226
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Re: Make it handle
The $64,000 question. For true performance, there are two factors. Strength and weight. Wheel and tire weight is the worst weight on the truck. Un-Sprung and rotating. Forgeline is popular for this reason. CCW, Formula 43, and Raceline are some more. Size may play a factor in wheel choice. Enkie makes a very strong and light wheel, but they don't make them very big. When it comes to size, part of that is for the 'look'. For the performance side, I would size to the current trend in tires. That would be 18" or 19". Do your homework on what tire sizes are available, and for what cars (corvettes, Vipers and suck) because the tire companies will not leave these customers hangin, not true for a C10 racer who likes 335/30/18's - we're just not plentiful enough for them to care. If I was doing a fresh build (without $$ concern) I would go 19x11 all around and run the Bridgestone RE-71 in a 305 (measures as wide as most 325's). Back in reality, my current new build "Goldy", a perf/driver, is on 20 x 10 Coys with 295 BFG's. Caution, many guys with 20's that are auto-Xin gwish they had 18's for better tire choice. Let us know.
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#1890 |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: winnipeg
Posts: 62
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Re: Make it handle
hey Rob
i wanna run 20x10s as well, whats the plan for inner fenders
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mike |
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#1891 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Bellevue
Posts: 3
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Re: Make it handle
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#1892 |
Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Dandridge, Tn. USA
Posts: 2,226
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Re: Make it handle
Well, fab or modify your own, Slosh Tubbs, or Munssey design.
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#1893 |
Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Dandridge, Tn. USA
Posts: 2,226
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Re: Make it handle
Nope, changing the position of the mounting doesn't change the weight percentage.
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#1894 |
Project underway - finally.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 493
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Re: Make it handle
I want to relocate my tie rod onto the bottom of the spindle for bump steer issues relating to my new front end geometry.
Many kits are available which are a sleeve with a taper in it that you weld into a hole you drill in the spindle. You turn the existing tapered hole into a cylinder, put an insert in so the taper is reversed, and then weld it in. These kits are all marketed for applications, mostly 4x4 rock crawling stuff. "Fits JK" "Fits TJ" "Fits Dodge 1 ton" "Fits GM 1 ton" "Fits dana 60 1 ton" I don't know, and can't seem to find, which taper we have (My truck is a 72 1/2 ton GMC) and what tapers match that. Help???
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1972 GMC Pre-resto... awaiting allocated funding. |
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#1895 |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Bothell, Washington
Posts: 2
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Re: Make it handle
Hi Everyone - newbee here to the website. I come from a circle track background, so this forum is my cup of tea. I raced for the last 20 years with my mini stock and it was old technology. So I'm not up to date on a lot of the new technology. I'm just starting a build on a 1953 Chevy Sidestep PU. It's an old build that was started 12 years ago (by someone else) and was never finished, or been on the road. My original plan was to just update the existing chassis, but for some DUMB reason they coated the entire chassis with LINEX bed covering! I now plan on updating most of the running gear and have been checking out complete chassis manufacturers. All have brake options and rotor sizes, but don't give any details on the specifics of each kit included. When you checkout Willwood's site it's looking for a specific vehicle, but since this is a hot rod, the only generic category would be GM. Several chassis mfg's use Willwood spindles, but that's as much information they show. I would like to do coilover's with double adjustable shocks.
My questions are: Radial or lug mounted - which way to go (advantage/disadvantage) and which is better for unsprung weight? The old stuff on my truck weighs a ton! My guess it was done 2005? Looks like early Mustang II? 4 or 6 piston caliper? I expect the truck weight to be about 3500#. Currently has American Racer 17" 505 rims and Toyo Proxes T1R 255/45 ZR17 Tires (Very Heavy) I may do some light autocross just for fun, but I want it to handle, ride nice, and be safe! Sorry for the mini book, but I thought I'd provide the background! Any thoughts or suggestions would be very appreciated. |
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#1896 | |
Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Dandridge, Tn. USA
Posts: 2,226
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Re: Make it handle
Quote:
As to the difference in caliper mounts, the weight is to close to worry about for street use. Personally, I prefer lug mount, but many tout the advantage of the radial mount of getting the caliper perfectly centered and/or less flex. I haven't seen an advantage either way, and the lug mount is a little simpler, so K.I.S.S. - it works for me.
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#1897 |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Bothell, Washington
Posts: 2
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Re: Make it handle
Thanks for the info Rob. I was hoping you would see this post. I'm at pg 30 of this thread, so I have a little more reading to do. I've been impressed with your chassis, especially the "Big 10", it reminds of a late model I help build in 1994. I may be calling you in the next couple of days.
New question. On the Willwood site under some of the "Fitment" category they list Willwood? Can you explain what they are indicating? I see on the No Limit site you list, as an example, "No Limit / Wilwood 13" Rotor 4 Piston", does that mean this is made exclusively for no limit engineering? Another question. The existing hub/rotors on the truck are very heavy, Lug mount type. Are the one's sold today lighter than the old ones I have? probably 2007 vintage when they were purchased. There are no markings on them to identify the mfg! Thank in advance |
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#1898 |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Cypress, TX
Posts: 61
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Re: Make it handle
Not sure if this has been addressed. looking to add coil overs. Are new upper and lower control arms required or will the current setup met my needs. 64 Step Side 2 1/2 spindle w/3 in drop spring in front, 4 in drop spring in rear. I want to lower the vehicle another inch all around without changing much.
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#1899 | |
Collector of Projects
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 3,106
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Re: Make it handle
Quote:
https://youtu.be/yYhvHzN3B-g There's companies that make arms, check to see what Rob from No Limit offers and RideTech comes to mind as well. Michigan Metal will make custom arms (and uprights for that matter) www.michiganmetalworks.com |
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#1900 | ||
I'm just glad to be here!
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Longview, TX
Posts: 4,788
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Re: Make it handle
Quote:
Quote:
http://www.ridetech.com/store/product-3296.html
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Karl ![]() 1965 Chevy Stepside(Grandpa's Old Blue) and (July 2015 Shop Build!)(2020, the Saga Continues) http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=372424 The LST Challenge: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=1#post7812257 Korbin's 1st Square: "Sunburn" http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=418618 1985 GMC Sierra: "White Trash", Korbin's 2nd now... http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=632305 Henry - 1984 Chevrolet, Owen's 1st Square |
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