My build thread.. 63 LS powered C10

[BigDan3131]

No they never are and when you have more than one it takes even longer. I wont be racing my 64 but it will be fast enough to beat the other guy across an intersection. I did the street racing thing and people "knew that guy in the El Camino" I kind of grew out of it. I read your build carefully, to find the pitfalls you uncovered which weren't many if any. I do love my carbs and a high winding motor so you never know I may end up at the track again.

[BigDan3131]

Any news? I haven't seen any updates in a while, in another thread you mentioned valvetrain issues. What happened?

[Super73]

Dan,

Yes, I do have a small problem I am trying to resolve. I am seeing some valve float around 6,700-6,800 rpm. I think the springs are not keeping up. I just received my new springs and shims so will put it all back together in the next couple weeks. My next track deal is scheduled for 10/21 which is an all truck event in sacramento.
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[BigDan3131]

Are you using Titanium retainers? When you built the motor did you buy those new style lifters that are better suited to high rpm or did you just use the stock ones? It could be either of those and I thought I heard you can get a rev kit for hyd roller cams.

I wish you good luck at both hoping the springs fix it and at the track.

[Super73]

I have ti retainers. The lifters are the CTSV lifters and some shops have used them in some abnormally high spinning motors (for hyd anyway upwards of 8,500rpm). I have talked to a few people that think the lifter plunger is shimmed to reduce plunger travel limiting it to like twentyfive-thou, then preload is set very low like ten-thou. This allows the lifter to act like a hyd at low rpm, then at high rpm, if the lifter bleeds down it doesn't loose much lift, or if it pumps up and hold the valve open, it isn't open much at all.

Not sure that I will do that, but who know. Would probably go solid instead.

Personally I don't think it is the lifters. These came out of my 347 that went to 7,400-7,600 with out issues.


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[Marv D]

Shaun any difference in valve diameter / length between these heads and the ones on the 347? Just wondering if weight in the valve train is higher and maybe limiting RPM more than in the last motor?

[Super73]

All three heads were/are at 1.80" install height. Both aftermarket heads retain factory geometry all the way around even with the 3/4" head deck vs the stock ported ones on the 347 at 1/2".

Trying to decide if the new springs are going in at 1.77 or 1.755.. 1.755 puts me at .055 before bind on my closest spring (.065 on most). I'd prefer the 185ish lbs on the seat the 1.755 gives, but feel more comfy at .070 clearance which is 175lbs. Still 30lbs added to the seat. Can't judge open since I only tested the old springs after being run.
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[Marv D]

I've been running 0.050" off coil bind on solid rollers for a long time,, always used it as a sort-of stop gap for valve float / lifter bounce. 10 psi is 10 psi..... The considerations your fighting to keep the hydraulic roller ,, you sure get my respect. I'd have thrown a set of solids and buttloads of spring on it long ago just to see what happens. LOL

on another note,, my LS1 stroker sandrail motor mounting up on the dyno late today...first tunning in the morning.. hope ot make a few pulls by mid day. Just to tune the new computer,, it's a real mild motor with just the stock 853 heads, mild cam, 4" stroke, bla bla bla.... nutin very special. But I just know this is going to have be dumping everything Gen 1 small block I own and becoming a LSx addict.

[Super73]

Marv,

I am not apposed to going SR and I will at some point. $200 for springs and shims is a lot less than the $2,400+ to go SR. I am fairly confident that if the springs don't fix it, than the push rod change will (which will happen after I confrim the springs did/didn't fix it).

The new goal is to go 9's NA with the hyd set up. I got my work cut out for me
LS motors require the heads to come off to change the lifters. Sooo...

$1200 in rockers arms
$600 in lifters
$175 for push rods
$100 in head gaskets
$400 for cam

[Super73]

Change is a coming again..

Swapping out the intake valves, and having powdered metal guides installed. Going from 115 grams per intake to about 87-88 grams. Hoping this cures my valve float issue. But just in case...

I have a new set of stiffer valve springs. This will cause me to do a push rod upgrade. New ones will be 5/16 .120 wall vs the 5/16 .080 wall I have now. Trust me, I'd prefer to go 3/8 or even 11/16 but the heads would need to be clearanced and there is concern that when doing so, the push rod area might put a hole in the intake port.

Since the heads will be off, thinner gasket moving me from 12.9cr to 13.5cr.

Putting a 4 vane vacuum pump set up on it. Currently have a breather, not even to the headers.

Having my electric water pump rebuilt. Last outing I was on a manual pump.

Going to have the converter restalled. Gonna add roughly 700 rpm to it.

Most likey will have the intake ported before it goes back together as well.


Expected completion, feb/mar time frame. What will all this do for me? I hope to go faster...
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[Marv D]

Someone has a serious case of the Faster faster faster addiction don't he.

LOL Now fess up Shaun,,,,,, inquiring minds want to know ..WHY all these changes.

(insider info can be fun sometimes LOL)

[Super73]

Because it will hopefully go faster?

For the valve train changes, because putting the heavier spring on the compensate for the currently heavy valve would only promote issue with push rod deflection with the current set up. It is a lot easier to control the lighter valve.

Guides because a run a stock rocker with trunion upgrade since they are lighter than any other rocker. Not going to a roller rocker due to the added weight it places over the valve. This also pretains to the above valve spring/push rod issue. Being non roller they put a side load on the valve and wear valve guides faster. The powdered metal guides are supposed to cure that premature wear issue.

Head gaskets well, because heads are off, need new gaskets (even though cometic claims they are reusable), and thinner could = more power.

Vacume pump for multiple reasons. Condensation I see in the oil due to the ethanol, better ring seal, currently have decent crank case pressure. Only good can come from this.

Converter loosened up a little as it is 1100 rpm too tight for motor. Upping it 700 rpm should still make it user friendly for the n20.

Porting intake, well, just for a little more power.



I know, I answered the question you had Marv, but I know what your real agenda was


Goal, 9.xx na pump gas hyd on a drag radial.
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[68 C-10 KID]

Ya buddy go get some! Put that new chassis set up to work.
Glad I'm not the only one changing things up in the off season. Best of luck Shaun. Take a look at smith brothers for your push sticks. They will custom build them and not charge a arm and leg.
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[BigDan3131]

Just wondering...Do they make titanium valves for LS based motors?

[1Bad62Pro/Street]

[Super73]

Yes, but they weigh with in 2 grams of a turned down hollow stem l92 valve, but are 6-7x the price.
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[hotrod 80]

Assuming the hollow stems are liquid or sodium filled and splash cool ?

[Super73]

Yes.
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[Super73]

Yeasterday i shipped my electric water pump to Mezeire to be repaired. It will be nice to have it back on the truck for the next track outing.

Ordered up all my -12 fittings for the vacuum pump install.

Dennis, (guitar player in one of the bands I play in) called to tell me the crank pulley adapter is made. This will hold a 2.5" v grove pulley to the LS crank pulley to spin the vacuum pump. Just need to get it from him and have it balanced.

Motor comes out today, heads come off and get shipped to Total Engine Airflow for the new guides, valves.

Once heads are back, the intake and heads go to a local head porter to have him work the core shift out of it and massage the intake ports on both intake and heads to match.
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[shortbed70]

Ka-Ching!!! Nice man can't wait to hear and see this thing go again. I'm with Marv to I'm so ready to jump on the ls wagon... Call me whatever you want them dang motors just respond too well to upgrades...
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[Super73]

Well, looks like I might be adding 1.8 roller rockers on top of everything else (just got a great deal on a set) That wil bring my total lift from .631 intake to .668 intake. Hopefully the added weight over the valve doesn't come back to bite me. I have to run my new springs since the old ones won't have enough available compression. I will be buying different push rods too before it goes back together simply due to the added spring pressure.

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[Super73]

Got my adapter for my vacuum pump drive pulley today. Dennis (Guitar player in one of my bands) is a machinist and made it for me. Now I just need to put counter sunk allen bolts in it and have it balanced.

[chevytruck1970]

Pulley looks good. What brand is your vacuum pump and how much vacuum do you plan to run?

[Super73]

Moroso 4 vane and 14" or so.
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[Marv D]

I'm sure you are already aware Shaun,, But the guys over on the bullet were talking about pin gauling at high vacuum, I brought it up with my machinist and he said it's not as big of a deal with the LS motors for some reason <shrugs> . One thing for sure, you won't have to worry about collapsing a oil pan up against the oil pickup with that LS pan will ya (LOL)