Project Reno - 72 cheyenne rebuild

[swamp rat]

Originally Posted by cmabolt

Hey Swamp rat! Your no stranger to problems either. Just part of building these things. Your gas tank filler neck work was very nice BTW. I moved the LS motor forward about 2 inches hoping that would solve most of my problems.
It did, but these headers that were never supposed to fit seemed like they might. So now plan b. I am sure one of the next two sets will fit and i can put this to bed. No big deal, just really liked those headers. i did manage to sell them and pay for my next pair though.

Chris

School of hard knocks!

Looking forward to seeing the hooker version..

[cmabolt]

Originally Posted by CUSTOM/10

I had header issue also. Installed a set of polished SS headers, speed pro I believe, bolted right up but I realized they were going to hit the cab on the passenger side because they came back too far before dropping down. Bought a set of Headmen SS Elite headers for our trucks, and still needed to clearance the DS frame rail for 1 tube. I believe it was due to my 700r4 and moving the engine forward, but their in there now.

So I feel your pain !

Gary

Nice to know i am not even close to being the only one having header issues. I contemplated making my own and just tacking them together. Then having someone tig them up. Would probably be much less expensive even having someone tig them. Next time I guess.
Have a great 4th

[CUSTOM/10]

I'm thinking of doing that with the rest of my exhaust system, buying the fittings, tack them up and have someone weld them up for me ! I'll have to get a price having someone doing it all to compare it to.

[cmabolt]

Well, got both sets of headers in today. I tried the headman LS swap 45660 3/4 length first as I didn't think they would work. To my surprise they were very close. I took them off and put on the hooker LS manifolds which I was sure would do the trick. Well, not even close. Plenty of room up top, but the exhaust exit was right on the slave for my hydraulic clutch. Ugh!






So, in summery, if you have an automatic, the Hooker manifolds will work. They look decent and have improved flow over stock. As for the headman, I clearanced the frame a little bit on drivers side, but once they dropped in they would need additional adjustment and I just didn't want to force them in. They both exited right at the rear leaf shackles as well so some interference to deal with for hookup to exhaust pipes. Neither are a solution for me. I may try headman's block hugger or even the large tube LS swap Thorleys. Trying to decide. Anybody have the large tube Doug Thorleys? Looks like the drivers side may work.

More to come.

[cmabolt]

Yesterday i was able to get one of the 2 pairs of headers i ordered test fit. It is official, the Doug Thorley 309C manifold replacement headers will work. The frame will need to be clearanced on the drivers side for the flange, but they will bolt up. I am waiting till the Headman LS block huggers come in before making a decision or cutting the frame.
Passengers side no issues

drivers side


While waiting for the headers to come in I began re-assembling some of the cab parts so i know where to route wires. i made a large order to LMC for the rest of my interior as well as nick nacks so i don't get delayed on the re-assembly.



I also finished up on the trans tunnel.


I am going to spray it with Raptor, but first need to figure out how to combine the shift boot retainer rings. It's always something.

[cmabolt]

Headers, Headers, Headers!! Well, the headman block hugger LS headers just arrived and THEY DO FIT!!!
Passenger side might need a little trimming on the frame, but very little. PLEASE ALSO NOTE these headers are 1.5" primates and 2.25" collectors.

Passengers side drop

Drivers side no clearancing needed, but my frame has been previously.

Drivers side drop no interference and for you guys running hydraulic clutch it's not even close.

Now that I know there is a pair of ls headers out there that will work, I noticed a considerable difference in quality from the Doug Thorley headers compared to the Headman. The DT's use thicker walled tube, weld on the outside of the flange and were almost twice as heavy. Also, the DT headers use the stock style steel gasket that the factory uses to connect to the lower exhaust.
Headman pipe to flange welds



DT headers pipe to flange welds



So after a bunch of headers and one set of manifolds, I decided on the Doug Thorley exhaust manifold replacement headers for gm LS trucks
I did need to clearance the frame and the flange of the drivers header a bit to get some breathing room for the headers, but they are in and will work.

Here are the headers numbers I tried and results with a 4x4 running a hydraulic clutch and lq4 motor moved forward 2 inches:

1) Headman Mid-length HED-45666
(HIT FRT SHACKLE BOLTS AND WOULD NEED DRIVERS SIDE FRAME CLEARANCED)
2) Headman Block Hugger HED-68526
(WILL FIT FINE AND NO ISSUES WITH HYD CLTCH they have smaller primaries and collector then is desired at 1.5 primaries and 2.25 collectors)
3) Doug Thorley long tube - 324Y-C (WILL NOT CLEAR CAB OR CLEAR HYD CLTCH)
4) Doug Thorley Manifold replacement headers 309-C and 309-1-C (WILL FIT WITH DRIVERS SIDE FRAME CLEARANCED FOR FLANGE)
5) HOOKER LS MANIFOLDS 8501-1HKR (DRIVERS FLANGE HIT HYD CLUTCH SLAVE)
6) SANDERSON LS10-158 headers do not fit and interfere with hydraulic clutch.
7) SANDERSON CC1LS-158 CES Headers are very similar to the headman block huggers, but 1 5/8 primaries and 2.5 collectors. They are
also a superior header design. On both these headers it is necessary for the motor mount bolts to be inserted from the rear of the engine
so they do not interfere with collector flanges.
8) HOOKER LS BLOCK HUGGER 2313HKR Will fit but are very tight to block and motor mount bolts must both be inserted from rear of engine facing forward to allow clearance for collector flanges.

I hope this helps somebody save time and money, ordering, trying, failing and eventually winning. It has been a pain in my ass and I will probably have to reinforce the frame in that area. The clearancing took about a 1/2 inch of the frame.

[cmabolt]

UPDATE! UPDATE!

Well, made a massive order at LMC with all my interior and whatever I though I needed to wire and it should have arrived by now, but UPS lost it and it's been like 3 days. It's really lost! So, until they find my parts, I have been chipping away at wiring the cab. This is my first wiring job so.... a little tentative, but So far, I have to say that American Auto Wire is a very nice product. The only thing I have had to make is a custom harness for the cargo light. It came with wires for the interior overhead curtesy light, but not a provision for the Cargo light other than a bag of connectors. So it was easy enough to make one based on the stock configuration. My entire dash panel is Classic Instruments so that plugged right into the harness. Pretty Nice and easy. I do have to make some custom mods for the LS motor harness to tie in as well as the vintage air system, so nervous about that.

BTW, the vintage air setup is pretty nice as well. It was very easy to assemble the controls and from what I can see so far of the harness, it will be a breeze to wire.

I am considering not running the rear harness thru the firewall, but somewhere else instead, The firewall looks so clean and don't really want to mess that up. I may break down though and start drilling, who knows. The stock location was filled, but it is easy enough to drill out.

Also, I still haven't decided if I want the pcm in or out of the cab. I certainly have room under the dash, but It could be nice to have it in the engine bay. I think that's where they usually are anyway.

More to come.

[swamp rat]

Wow, cant believe UPS lost the stuff.....

[rgunlock]

Sounds like you are making good headway on your wiring. Hope your order shows up by the weekend for you.

[cmabolt]

Parts and more parts…
Well today UPS showed up with two huge boxes containing smalls and my entire interior.

I have been chipping away at wiring and did break down and drill 1 hole in the firewall. It's the stock location for the rear harness exit from the cab. Now I am having a hell of a time finding a good grommet for the firewall. It has a bit of filler in that area so it is thick and needs a thick grommet. The search goes on...
AC/heat is all hooked up, just need to wire under the hood. I bundled the wires for the front harness.

Under the dash is pretty much done. I tried really hard to tie all the wires and keep things clean.


This evening I started installing interior parts: Sun visors, headliner, rear cargo light and all those little rubber bumpers for the glove box and ashtray. I ordered some black interior parts and some brown, I am going to do a two tone interior. Just a few small things like brown elbow pads on black door panels, brown sun visors, brown seat belts on black seats and a brown stipe down the middle of the center console. I am also planning on doing wood accents, but am going to use form wood. It's real wood veneer with adhesive back for the glove box.
I also figured out the shifter bezel issue. I cut a little out of the trans shifter so it sits closer to the transfer case shifter and there's still room for both the boots.

[swamp rat]

Per request, hope this helps. pic's are from front to back, the cable bolts via a clip to the top of the frame just to the outside of the speedo cable, then in the 3rd pic does not show the cable but they are laying on top of the frame right ahead of the T-case cross member, there is a bracket just behind the T-case cross member where the cable terminates, just ahead of that both cables are again bolted to the frame via a clip, the cable extends about 6-8" past the bracket in the last pic. so its all on the top of the frame.

The rear cable attaches to the front cable via a metal clip, that cable runs from the front cable and go's to both drums, i didn't take any pic's because my rear cable is removed. if needed i can take a couple pictures of the other two frame brackets that support the cable where it extends from the frame to the drums. OK, now i'm leaving for Goodguys.

[swamp rat]

I missed a pic. it shows the park cable as it go's back across the top of the frame, sorry its out of focus or it would show the cable going outside of the speedo cable..

[cmabolt]

Originally Posted by swamp rat

Per request, hope this helps. pic's are from front to back, the cable bolts via a clip to the top of the frame just to the outside of the speedo cable, then in the 3rd pic does not show the cable but they are laying on top of the frame right ahead of the T-case cross member, there is a bracket just behind the T-case cross member where the cable terminates, just ahead of that both cables are again bolted to the frame via a clip, the cable extends about 6-8" past the bracket in the last pic. so its all on the top of the frame.

The rear cable attaches to the front cable via a metal clip, that cable runs from the front cable and go's to both drums, i didn't take any pic's because my rear cable is removed. if needed i can take a couple pictures of the other two frame brackets that support the cable where it extends from the frame to the drums. OK, now i'm leaving for Goodguys.

Thanks soooo much. this is exactly what i needed. It will be installed today.

[swamp rat]

Anything to help!

[cmabolt]

UPDATE UPDATE!
The truck bed finally made the trip to the painter. It should be done when I return from being away. How nice will it be to not have to depend on anyone for anything from here on out. When paint is done it will go to line-x dealer for bed liner and then home for good. Whoooaaaaa!

I have finished wiring the cab, but still need to install new stereo and speakers then can move onto rear harness. I was really held up with grommets that fit the firewall nicely and the smalls in the cab. I also am incredibly busy with jobs so will probably not get anything done on the truck until mid september. This is a good problem to have.

More to come.

Chris

[CUSTOM/10]

Awesome Chris !!!!

It will be nice to see it all one color and shinny new !!!

Gary

[DWilbur]

Originally Posted by cmabolt

time for an update. Now that the motor is in, I have turned my attention to the small motor stuff and surrounding systems. I started by modifying the power steering low pressure line thru the frame and swapping the high pressure line fitting from the old pump to the new ls pump. (it does work as explained on the forums)



I then hooked up the new ac brackets and compressor that I ordered with the vintage air system. This Kwik bracket locates the compressor high and utilizes one drive belt for all accessories. Turned out nice and was easy to install. I did have to extend the spacers to line everything up.





Next began hooking up senders for gauges.


Vacuum port for brake booster

Doug Thorley headers arrived today and after switching over to hydraulic clutch was pleasantly surprised that they fit!!! At least for now they fit.

Just a little clearancing for the clutch bracket



will definitely be moving the fuel lines



I will be continuing with the systems in and around the motor.

What Dough Thorley headers did you use. the ones I ordered don't fit.

[DWilbur]

after reading through the rest of your build I see the 309C.

[cmabolt]

Originally Posted by DWilbur

after reading through the rest of your build I see the 309C.

Yes i used the 309C, but it took considerable frame clearancing to get them in
the way i wanted. I would go with the Headman block huggers for sure.

Chris

[cmabolt]

Originally Posted by CUSTOM/10

Awesome Chris !!!!

It will be nice to see it all one color and shinny new !!!

Gary

Hey thanks Gary! I am stoked that the bed is underway. I just need to wire the rear harness and the bed is ready to go on. I am going to assemble the front sheet metal before I wire the front harness so I can use the inner fenders to attach and run wires, junctions etc.

I am actually enjoying wiring this thing. Nice to be able to organize and direct the wiring so that everything look clean. I haven't installed the ducting under the dash yet, but figure that will be the worst of the cab assembly.

Chris

[CUSTOM/10]

It's coming together now Chris !

Lately I've had very little time to spend on my truck, 6 cords of firewood to stack, 30 yards of loam to spread & sead, it never ends. I did get about 3 hrs on the truck yesterday, got the the brake lines plumbed into the master cylinder & P-valve. But when I look at all that's left to do it gets overwhelming !!! Cab is still totaly empty, not a wire in the truck, diff's to regear, brakes to finish.... Grrrrrrr.....

I want to be driving it !!!! "LOL"

Gary

[DWilbur]

Originally Posted by cmabolt

Yes i used the 309C, but it took considerable frame clearancing to get them in
the way i wanted. I would go with the Headman block huggers for sure.

Chris

Hello Chris
looking at the pictures of your engine it looks like it sits about 1" higher than mine. I'm using the dirty dingo mount. I called dirty dingo to see what headers fit and they did not have a straight answer. I called Dough Thorley and their tech said to fallow the instructions. The instructions only call out motor mounts for 2 wheel drive truck and the engine sits 1.5" higher in a 2 wheel drive truck do the cross member for the front suspension. I will order a set of Headman block huggers and give it a try. I found a NV4500 transmission and the hydraulic clutch is internal so I won't have to worry about the external one I was going to use with the SM465. Thanks for all the trial and error work you did it was a big help for me.

[cmabolt]

Originally Posted by DWilbur

Hello Chris
looking at the pictures of your engine it looks like it sits about 1" higher than mine. I'm using the dirty dingo mount. I called dirty dingo to see what headers fit and they did not have a straight answer. I called Dough Thorley and their tech said to fallow the instructions. The instructions only call out motor mounts for 2 wheel drive truck and the engine sits 1.5" higher in a 2 wheel drive truck do the cross member for the front suspension. I will order a set of Headman block huggers and give it a try. I found a NV4500 transmission and the hydraulic clutch is internal so I won't have to worry about the external one I was going to use with the SM465. Thanks for all the trial and error work you did it was a big help for me.

Hey DWilber. Not a problem at all. That's why we're all here I guess. I got a lot of help from others as well. In the end, I don't think there's a manufacturer out there that will give you a solid answer. Too many variations in these engine swaps to make anything a sure bet and their not going to put themselves in the position of giving you incorrect information.

I do think these headman headers though will do the trick. If you dry fit them with motor mounts in place you will know immediately if their going to fit. There's really nothing in the way of their output except the motor mount and a very small sliver of the frame may need to be ground away. Good luck and let me know how you clutch setup and NV4500 work. I plan on doing this upgrade in the near future once I get mine driving on the road. A write up on what you needed to do would be great.

Thanks
Chris

[cmabolt]

Mo progress!!
Well got a call from the body guy today and the bed is ready. I am going to look at it tomorrow morning. I also had a gap in my schedule so was able to get a few days to wire the truck. I was able to finish the rear harness to the connector for rear lights. That was a major accomplishment as I was worried about routing it in a clean way.


The return fuel line is on the drivers side so I wanted the wires to travel above that.

Here is where the wires exit the rear frame. I want the bed before I go any further with rear harness.

Here's the pig tail for reverse lights. I had to order a connector so It will wait a few more days.

The wires use all the original cab bend over clips and I tried hard to route the wires as original along the cab firewall.

I was also able to get the seats in temporarily to mark holes for the new console. While I was at it I decided to paint the top 2 tone.

I was also able to fish the courtesy light wires into the door jams. A good day it was for odds and ends.

More to come.

[70stroker]

Looks great man, I need to get fired up on mine again.