Spring Swap Thread - 1963 K15

['63GENIII]

Back to one of the main reasons that I wanted to pull the axle - the springs. I had a crack in a drivers side leaf, they were a little soft and wait, I just found a little crack in one of the passenger side leafs as well .

So far, not so fun. I'll probably use a few leafs from the original '63 rear spring packs to mix / match and make two 7 leaf packs.

['63GENIII]

I mentioned that someone had painted / epoxied that carrier that I pulled to get to the inner axle seal right? It cleans off easy enough in the parts washer but as I was wire brushing that stuff off, I noticed this pitting on the carrier bearings. Im guessing that the pinion is gonna be in the same condition.

With every bolt that I pull off of this axle, I hear that guy from Happy Gillmore popping up saying "jackass"!

I think it's approaching D60 money now. Im almost thinking about a locker now just so I don't have to mess with this carrier but that would be like throwing diamonds into a flushing toilet.

[jeffahart]

Originally Posted by '63GENIII

I think it's approaching D60 money now. Im almost thinking about a locker now just so I don't have to mess with this carrier but that would be like throwing diamonds into a flushing toilet.

It's funny you mention that. I have a 70, so I had the aardvark one year, Drum/open knuckle 44 that needed to be gone through. I wanted to upgrade to disc. I searched for a decent disc 44 but ran up against crap or decent overpriced "maybe" not crap. I got sick of searching and purchased take outs from Boyce. I paid around $2,500 for a 60 and corp 14. The price actually was not that steep... here's why. I got 14K miles axles that were a drop in, I did nothing, not even brake pads! Now I am on the hunt for dana 70 outers for a bit more beef(fun stuff). Point is, what seemed like over priced at the time turned out to be more cost effective in the long run. I lost the eaton in the rear: and I really liked the old axle, but I don't miss it. Just some mussing's on the heels of others planting the D60 bug. And based on your rig, I bet you would dig the 60! Get a post 80s D60 for the straight across whole shaft 1.5 inner! Only thing the axle will need is 35 outers and 35 spline hubs.

['63GENIII]

Originally Posted by jeffahart

It's funny you mention that. I have a 70, so I had the aardvark one year, Drum/open knuckle 44 that needed to be gone through. I wanted to upgrade to disc. I searched for a decent disc 44 but ran up against crap or decent overpriced "maybe" not crap. I got sick of searching and purchased take outs from Boyce. I paid around $2,500 for a 60 and corp 14. The price actually was not that steep... here's why. I got 14K miles axles that were a drop in, I did nothing, not even brake pads! Now I am on the hunt for dana 70 outers for a bit more beef(fun stuff). Point is, what seemed like over priced at the time turned out to be more cost effective in the long run. I lost the eaton in the rear: and I really liked the old axle, but I don't miss it. Just some mussing's on the heels of others planting the D60 bug. And based on your rig, I bet you would dig the 60! Get a post 80s D60 for the straight across whole shaft 1.5 inner! Only thing the axle will need is 35 outers and 35 spline hubs.

Man, Ive just spent the better part of the last 2 weeks working on this damn thing and completely pissing off my neighbors with solvent from the parts washer, paint fumes and my truck in the driveway looking like its about to take flight .
This latest thing with the carrier / pinion bearings has me pretty beat.

Ive got a line (maybe just a thin thread) on a 4:10 D60 for 1100 but the guy won't answer the phone and barely will answer an email. He's 2-1/2 hours away and I really don't want to waste the better part of the day on another axle that needs a bunch of work. Boyce sounds like a great idea but I really don't have that kind of scratch at the moment. At this point, Ive got 2 weeks before I need it to pull the boat and all of our stuff on a camping trip.

Got some thinking to do that's for sure

[jeffahart]

Two weeks! Even if you wanted to break the bank, It would be tight to get a reputable yard to perform (one that separates the chaff from the wheat and knows what they have) plus shipping and all, or your driving. Maybe make a straight axle out of what you got and buy some time. I think you are at a critical juncture on you expenditures to get what you want sitting under the front. The D44 or D60 either way you need some breathing room. Hook or crook get what you got rolling, and save the "big buck" or "best fit" decision for when you got some time to consider.

good luck, I feel your pain!

[downeyballz]

this would be a great time to add crossover steering. might as well get the passenger knuckle machined while its off.

['63GENIII]

Originally Posted by jeffahart

Two weeks! Even if you wanted to break the bank, It would be tight to get a reputable yard to perform (one that separates the chaff from the wheat and knows what they have) plus shipping and all, or your driving. Maybe make a straight axle out of what you got and buy some time. I think you are at a critical juncture on you expenditures to get what you want sitting under the front. The D44 or D60 either way you need some breathing room. Hook or crook get what you got rolling, and save the "big buck" or "best fit" decision for when you got some time to consider.

good luck, I feel your pain!

So the guy with the 60 up in Sac emails me while I'm at work today asking if Im really interested in it. I ask a couple general questions - condition, what gears, more pics. You know, the usual when you're about to drop a few bucks on a CL ad. Told him that my kid brother who lives 10 minutes away from him would come check it out tonight.

This jack weed emails me a pic of a dually axle and got pretty offensive and went on a rant about how hates CL. Says he's got a ton of interest in his dually axle and everyone is wasting his time. LOL. I'm sure that some poor sucker will buy it for 1250 (yeah he raised the price too) only to find out that they need 500$ worth of single wheel hubs to make it work.

Meanwhile, the Timken carrier and pinion kit just showed up at the door. Looks like my decision (for now) has been made.

I'll get the 60 one day when its right. Usually when I rush into a decision (like now), it doesn't pan out right and Im stuck with a new problem - like trying to suck the front wheels in a foot

Originally Posted by downeyballz

this would be a great time to add crossover steering. might as well get the passenger knuckle machined while its off.

Ive heard about it but don't know much about it. Ive heard that it helps with bump steer which I don't have anyway. Does it make the steering faster or "twitchy"? Might try it when I do the 60.

I think I have too many irons in the fire as it is.

[jeffahart]

Ha Ha, that's classic.. typical scenario in my axle search too. Hopefully your current setup will keep you on(or off the road) for a while.

Re the crossover. Man, my truck drives so sweet with my setup. I can take my hands off the wheel on the freeway at 60 and it tracks straight, over bumps and everything. It's never driven so good. My advise, if you ain't hard core wheeling and your vehicle tracks good... don't jack it up. I feel like I got lucky on my current setup. Maybe not luck, but my expectations have been surpassed by the way this truck handles! And it could probably even use a king pin knuckle spring and bushing replacement. But I don't think I could get it to handle any better, maybe HD springs up front. I used to gripe about the 4" Skyjacker soft rides up front being too mushy. Now that is not a pet peeve anymore because it just hugs the road.

Anyhow, you know the old saying... if it works don't fix it.

As always my 2cents... worth the price paid!

['63GENIII]

Originally Posted by jeffahart

Ha Ha, that's classic.. typical scenario in my axle search too. Hopefully your current setup will keep you on(or off the road) for a while.

Re the crossover. Man, my truck drives so sweet with my setup. I can take my hands off the wheel on the freeway at 60 and it tracks straight, over bumps and everything. It's never driven so good. My advise, if you ain't hard core wheeling and your vehicle tracks good... don't jack it up. I feel like I got lucky on my current setup. Maybe not luck, but my expectations have been surpassed by the way this truck handles! And it could probably even use a king pin knuckle spring and bushing replacement. But I don't think I could get it to handle any better, maybe HD springs up front. I used to gripe about the 4" Skyjacker soft rides up front being too mushy. Now that is not a pet peeve anymore because it just hugs the road.

Anyhow, you know the old saying... if it works don't fix it.

As always my 2cents... worth the price paid!

Interesting on the crossover steering Jeff. I've never really noticed any bump steer but then again, I probably wasnt paying attention. Im for sure not going to do it to this 44 but am actively keeping an eye out for a 60 now. I figure I can sell the nearly completely refurbished 44 to help offset the cost but for now, Ill just rock the little axle.

A little progress made this week.

I pulled the pinion out and noticed that the bearings looked great as did the cups.

I got the passenger side carrier bearing off with the bearing splitter that I bought for the NV4500. It came off pretty easy. Seems like there is not alot of press on those.

I should probably watch a video on using the splitter so I don't have to blow apart bearings with a chisel in the future.

After putting a little grease on the pinion bearings, it went back in with a new seal. I was very mindful of the shim positions in the process. There were a lot of them and some were paper thin!

I reinstalled the shims on the carrier in their original places and pressed on the new carrier bearings all the while praying that Timken hadn't changed their tolerances in 40 years . Fingers crossed!

I put the carrier back into the housing - which was a tighter fit than coming out. I attributed this to wear on the bearings and cups? Anyway, a little persuasion with a pry bar and it went in snug. 60# on the caps. 160# on the pinion.

I turned the yoke on the assembly and it did have a little drag. By the seat of my pants Id say 5 to 15Lbs. Light drag. Nothing weird. Backlash at the yoke was how I remember it (sounding pretty scientific now huh?).

The Yukon bearing kit came with a tube of grease paint so I used it to check the wear pattern. Looks to be a little more towards the toe and centered in the tooth. From what Ive read, this is good for new gears and bearings? Ill get a pic up later on this.

['63GENIII]

My little Vulcan press has been worth every bit of the 80$ I paid for it. Another tool that I have to learn how to use properly though.

Id be done with this thing in a couple of hours but have to run to Hollister to pick up a new set of rear 3/4 ton 63" springs for the rear of the truck. Oh yeah and the wheel seals that I forgot to order which kept me from finishing the axle last night .

Getting closer! I think that the axle will be just fine for what Im doing in the near future. Unless the differential catches on fire from the bearings being too tight that is!

[jeffahart]

Originally Posted by '63GENIII

I should probably watch a video on using the splitter so I don't have to blow apart bearings with a chisel in the future.

Haha. I have a bunch of air chisels that I have ground into different shapes. My air chisel has really become a WMD. The latest victim, that stupid claw tooth nut on the back of the hydrobooster, no way was I making as special socket for that stupid nut! Figured I would just pop over to the parts store and get a new nut... NOT! Replaced it with a spanner, worked better anyway! "Creative Destruction!"

Anyhow, for sure that is a great axle, no reason no to keep now that you're going through it. Like I said, if mine were a disc axle I would have gone through it.

Have a great trip.

['63GENIII]

Haha, latest twist in the saga... Apparently the Dana axles have the tie rod on top of the knuckle and 10b corporate have it on the bottom. Guess which one I got to replace my driver's side that was shot? U guessed it, the 10b. Got a tie rod "flip" tapered sleeve to correct it coming tonight.

Spent last night getting those 3 SOB studs out of the old knuckle so I can mount them on the new one.

Axle is back in with my cobbled up 7 leaf spring pack. All torqued and ready to finish up.

Gonna swap the rear springs to 3/4 t on Saturday, cut the trans cross member to clear the front driveshaft and make the linkage for the t case.


......and then get the boat ready, camping gear down, packed blah, blah. Lol. Not feeling like a vacation so far. Should be fun once I'm done!

[61K10]

Chris--you got my back a hurten just reading your post. A hate concrete in my old age. You'll get it done and then the fun.

Kimble

['63GENIII]

Originally Posted by 61K10

Chris--you got my back a hurten just reading your post. A hate concrete in my old age. You'll get it done and then the fun.

Kimble

Man Kimble, you read my mind. I do have a moving blanket that I throw under the truck when Im under it (which had been frequently lately) that helps a little. Just takes a little longer getting out from under it these days. Im usually under it in at least 10 minute stretches if not longer now. Even if Im just measuring or trying to get an idea of how to fab something Ive been known to lay under it for 20 minutes getting the motivation to get up . The wife comes these days not to see what I'm working on but to see if I'm asleep.

Couple of pics. First is the " whats not right about this picture?"

Second is the progress at the moment. I think it looks pretty good.
New ball joints, 1 driver's side 10 bolt knuckle, inner axle and outer wheel seals, Warn hubs, Spicer sealed axle u joints, new Timken carrier bearings and pinion seal, Ruff Stuff 2 deg shims and spring center bolts, Tuff Country axle u bolts, Torrington spindle / outer axle bearings. New drag link and Dana 60 tie rod.

The 52" - 7 leaf pack is a combination of the top 3 '73 K10 leafs and the bottom 4 from the original rear leaf packs that came on the truck. Brass wire brushed, washed, primed and painted. We'll see how this works out for ride, stability and God forbid more cracked springs.

[snj8198]

Not feeling like a vacation so far.

They never are! I put more work and effort into getting prepped for the vacation than what the R&R pay off is!

[jeffahart]

Originally Posted by '63GENIII

Couple of pics. First is the " whats not right about this picture?"

Simple, a blind man could see it... you put the lock tight on the head of the nut not the threads!

That said... don't forget to put oil in it before the break in!

[jeffahart]

Originally Posted by snj8198

They never are! I put more work and effort into getting prepped for the vacation than what the R&R pay off is!

You got that right! I recently got rid of everything. RV, bikes, Polaris ect. Between maint, mods and constantly dickering with equipment in field... I started to need a break from my break! I really started leaving stuff more on the stock side and freeing up more time on pre-vacation and actual "vacation". Sporting people loose weight on vacation... everyone else gains 5 lbs.

[Dieselwrencher]

Nice work on your truck and thanks for the detailed thread doing your spring swaps. I really like your truck!

First of all, on the what's not right in the pic. Am I seeing correctly that the tie rod is on top of the knuckle on the RH side but below it on the LH side? It looks like the tie rod bar goes down hill in both pics.

Secondly, are the 63" springs on chevy trucks from 88 up to 00 or on up to 05ish? I'm building another K30 Longhorn and this 63" rear spring caught my eye.

['63GENIII]

Originally Posted by snj8198

They never are! I put more work and effort into getting prepped for the vacation than what the R&R pay off is!

Ain't that the truth! You mean just getting there isn't the point?

Originally Posted by jeffahart

Simple, a blind man could see it... you put the lock tight on the head of the nut not the threads!

Dammit Jeff.... ok I don't have a comeback for that. The paint is kinda Locktite colored. Not sure if I like it now

That said... don't forget to put oil in it before the break in!

And there is that anxiety again. Ok, just put that on the punch list!

Originally Posted by jeffahart

You got that right! I recently got rid of everything. RV, bikes, Polaris ect. Between maint, mods and constantly dickering with equipment in field... I started to need a break from my break! I really started leaving stuff more on the stock side and freeing up more time on pre-vacation and actual "vacation". Sporting people loose weight on vacation... everyone else gains 5 lbs.

I tried going "minimalistic" a few times. Didn't work. Everyone else's crap breaks down. All I hear all weekend is "anyone know where Chris is? I think I need him to take a look at this". Ive never lost weight on vacation.

Originally Posted by Dieselwrencher

Nice work on your truck and thanks for the detailed thread doing your spring swaps. I really like your truck!

First of all, on the what's not right in the pic. Am I seeing correctly that the tie rod is on top of the knuckle on the RH side but below it on the LH side? It looks like the tie rod bar goes down hill in both pics.



Secondly, are the 63" springs on chevy trucks from 88 up to 00 or on up to 05ish? I'm building another K30 Longhorn and this 63" rear spring caught my eye.

Yep. Finding that out was almost as bad as drilling the knuckle out to 7/8 for the tapered insert with my Hole Hawg, having the bit catch and slamming my hand into the fender. Finally got through after bending both the 3/4 and 7/8 bits. One hole wonders!

Not so sure about the starting year for the springs but IIRC, they are '92 to present. I don't know anything about the 3/4 (yet) or the 1 ton springs but if you're gonna use your truck like a truck, the 1/2 tons probably won't do. Mine were a little soft for my liking and got on the overloads with 1/2 ton of drain rock. I didn't like towing the boat either as the truck looked like the dog dragging his but on the carpet. Ive also heard that they will distort pretty good if you put some power to them. Mine are still straight, flex good but are just a hair too light for me.

['63GENIII]

Ok, this part is done. Tomorrow is on to notching the trans crossmember for the drive shaft and t case linkage. AND putting oil in the front axle... Thanks Jeff!

Here is where we are at now....

[jeffahart]

Hey I was just being a smart arse. Keep the orange bolts. I painted mine silver to look like stainless...

On the oil note, I still use paper gaskets and only paper gaskets on my diffs and never have leaks (actually I think they're fel pro fiber on my 60) the rear 14 is paper. Anyhow, no goop is my point, I hate scraping crap to prep surfaces... I'm always in a hurry!

Looking good. I spent a couple hours under my truck last night... my face looked like a chimney sweep, I gotta get the bottom side steam cleaned.

['63GENIII]

Originally Posted by jeffahart

Hey I was just being a smart arse. Keep the orange bolts. I painted mine silver to look like stainless...

On the oil note, I still use paper gaskets and only paper gaskets on my diffs and never have leaks (actually I think they're fel pro fiber on my 60) the rear 14 is paper. Anyhow, no goop is my point, I hate scraping crap to prep surfaces... I'm always in a hurry!

Looking good. I spent a couple hours under my truck last night... my face looked like a chimney sweep, I gotta get the bottom side steam cleaned.

Haha, took me a minute. I was pretty tired from thrashing on it last night. When I figured it out, I had a desperately needed laugh!. Ive found it necessary to have a sense of humor with this thing

As far as the oil, I have a couple of half or more full jugs of 75 -80 which should fill it and get rid of the jugs at the same time. I usually use that "Right Stuff" and its never leaked. Im trying something different this time called a "Lube Locker" gasket. It was recommended with the Yukon bearings from Amazon. In a moment of weakness, I caved. Haven't filled it yet but Im sure it will be fine. Still gotta grease a few tie rods and tighten their adjusters.

I was slackin tonight as the kid's first day of summer was today. My youngest is camping in the backyard with her girlfriend from next door and my boy is in bed vomiting. Woo hoo! Summer break! Hopefully I can hit it hard on Saturday.

['63GENIII]

Well I couldn't go through the all the work of putting a nearly new front axle in and not actually connect the driveshaft so I set to work notching the trans crossmember. When I swapped the T221 for the 205, the 205's front output was higher than the 221. The driveshaft now hit the trans crossmember and wouldn't bolt to the t case. A 6" piece of 5" schedule 40 did the trick.

['63GENIII]

Also couldn't let the lack of linkage or a t case shifter stop progress either.

['63GENIII]

Gotta get more pics of the finished projects on here. Here is one last one of the new 3/4 springs vs the old 1/2 springs.

I drove it to work today as a sort of shakedown run and it really rode nice. A little firmer than before but not harsh by any means. Ill get more detailed shots of it all finished after the lake trip.