702 GMC V-12 powered '62 GMC 1-ton

[89 crew]

here's the info for the 1066
Drawbar (rated): 108 hp [80.5 kW]
Drawbar (max): 105.95 hp [79.0 kW]
PTO (max): 125.7 hp [93.7 kW]
PTO (rated): 126 hp [94.0 kW]
11,861 lbs

the 1486
Drawbar (rated): 126 hp [94.0 kW]
PTO (rated): 146 hp [108.9 kW]
12,500 lbs

[cayoterun]

My favorite tractor for our custom round bale business, ever, was '74 4230 JD power shift. They are 100hp tractors. We had 2 just alike. They sure made a good team. I've kicked myself for not keeping one and putting a front end loader on it.
Cayoterun

[ed2552]

I thought the 1486 had more power, oh well, it is plenty strong as it is

[89 crew]

Those numbers do need a little translation.
the rated is what the manufacturer said it would do. the max numbers are from Nebraska testing.

[ed2552]

Yeah, but if the screw is cranked, it is more like 140, LOL

[89 crew]

well for Nebraska testing the manufacturer sends their engineers with the tractor to turn the screws for each test.

[cayoterun]

http://www.youtube.com/haystack155

We stuck another video on today. The camera batteries quit on this try, but will try to get part 2 running max rpm later today.
The stacks don't look right to me there in the stand, but pretty good sound, too loud to sound real good unless your some distance from it. We didn't have it warmed up enough and should have closed shop doors to get fire to show out the pipes when slowed down real quick.

If I can find an old car body/w good title and old enough to have the big fenders, it's tempting to use it instead of the truck path we following now. Then use 3/4 ton rear end/w single wheels. I have no intentions of making a good looking vehicle out of this, just something for showing the motor running under it's own power.
Will probably use the 5sp direct tranny for now, and start trying to mount it in the truck frame. Wish some of you young guys/w good eyes were here to do the cutting and welding on it for me.
Cayoterun

[cayoterun]

I've been asked several times how these stationary engines were cooled without a radiator, so here goes.
Pic#1: Well site/w Minneapolis-Moline engine, pump gear head, base, (water well under pump base) and engine cooling coil.
Pic#2: Engine cooling coil. Inside is a series of horizontal pipes connected together/w one inlet and outlet connected to the engine coolant lines running to motor. As the cold water is pumped out of well, it flows over the internal coolant pipes and out the other end into a underground distribution line. The fresh water is 5? degrees as it come out of the ground. The coolant is cooled with cool water as it circulates thru the internal pipes and back to engine in stead of cool air in a open radiator.

The barrel/w oil line supplies oil to the pump shaft that spins the pump@ 1750rpm around 300-400 feet below the surface. I'm guessing this has a 1.1 gear head, so motor is turning 1750rpm also.

Pic#3: Coolant lines from engine to cooling coil and back. The exposed pot lower right is the natural gas inlet for engine coming from a natural gas source about a mile away.
Pic#4: Rotating sprinkler. This one is 1/2 mile long and irrigates about 500 acres in one revolution.
Hope this is helpful to those who have asked.
Thanks,
Cayoterun

[jeffspower]

I love listening to the old MM's churning out power. Back home there's a guy that pulls a GVI. I suspect he is running power unit goodies in it- it really runs. It's cool to see something with a carburetor outpulling & running much faster ground speed than the diesels.

[cayoterun]

Jeff: Molines don't run, we say they chuckle at big loads. They run slower and have more power than the V-12s.

Ok--- Now I need lots of help and answers to many questions. We're ready to start trying to get it mounted in the frame. Still lots of frame cleaning, but maybe you guys can be thinking on the engineering.

I did decide to use that '72 Ford one ton frame. I don't like the twin I-beam but it had other things that might help us do this. The front of the frame rails fork out wider than the chevy and will accomodate a larger and wider radiator, they then narrow down under the cab no wider than the chevy.

Questions:
#1 Can a all drum brake master cylinder/w no power be used with disc fronts by putting a T in the line at the cylinder into both front and rear lines and still have adequate braking? Or do you need to use a master cylinder/w the two line outlet? Also, would a single fluid outlet master cylinder/w power booster be enough?

#2 Motor/tranny mounts:

As long and heavy as these are, would two motor mounts be enough or do we need Front and rear motor mounts/w a rear tranny mount for more support? As said prior, we're dealing with a combined weight over 2,000# and 7 1/2 feet long.

This thread is getting really long, so, Mods, if this needs to be moved or I need to reduce my posts, let me know, as I don't want to abuse web-site priveleges in any way. I'm new at this stuff, (computors), so don't know all the do's and don'ts.
Thanks,
Cayoterun

[89 crew]

For the brakes take a hyrdovac from a 40-70 series truck and put on. It will be powered by the single non power master cylender and then it will give you power brakes. All you will have to do is watch the size of the fluid bore in the hydrovac. If it is too big your breaks will be sensitive!

For the mounts I would look at how the engine was originally mounted. If it worked back then it will work today.

[cayoterun]

Crew: Is the hydrovac you refer to the ones like on the grain trucks and bigger that mounts of the frame? If so, will the later ones have one inlet from the master, and two outlets to front and back brakes, or would I have to tee them together.
Thats a good idea on this thing, as it would give more room on the firewall.
Motor Mounts: I know a guy who has a V-12 truck e-mail pics of his mounts. It's a tilt cab and easy to see.
Thanks for getting me to think "outside-the-box".
Cayoterun

[89 crew]

Yep, The ones that mount on the grain truck frame is what I'm thinking about. I have an old Champion motorhome with 2 of these boosters on it, and a ford F600 and F800 with them. I don't know what all is available for them fas as duel outputs, but I figured it was worth a look. If you do have to tee them together, oh well, it worked on the big trucks for years that way. You do have to put a one way valve on the vac line going to the hydrovac. If you get the proper valve there is a port on it to hook a vac gauge for the engine. That valve does have to be mounted higher than the engine. otherwise it is possible to get fluid to run down and stop the booster from working. Also keep an extra one of those plastic valves in the truck. I have seen a bunch of them split where they were melted together.

[cayoterun]

Thanks, I got a bunch of old trucks around to check out. Never occurred to me to go that route. Just proves a bunch of heads are better than one.
Cayoterun

[Bob B.]

Are you going to try to mount a 702 in a Ford F-250 chassis?

[cayoterun]

Ford F-350 1ton frame and running gear only. If I follow present plan, When I get motor, tranny, & driveline set in, then set a '62 GMC cab and extended front clip on it/w a steel flatbed.

The plan and ideas change from day to day.
I'm open to any and all ideas. Progress is sloow.
I picked up a junked V-12 stripped block today to use when building motor mounts and spacings. Don't have to worry about skinning up the running motor, plus much less weight to handle.
Cayoterun

[cayoterun]

Progress by leaps and bounds, (or maybe bumps and jerks). Looks like it's might to be easier than expected for the mounts. Maybe just need one different cross-member for tranny, but the others will need modified.

Dumb question: Rubber mounts are necessary for frame flex, and vibration dampening, Right?
Hope all of you say, no. It would be easy to mount the motor solid like in stands, but those two items weren't an issue stationary.
Frame length looks good and can leave plenty of room in front of the cab for motor access.

Would there be any down side to useing a small pto shaft/w a slide, and two small u-joints for the steering shaft? Any safety issues to consider? Looks like it would be as safe as those tire looking deals.

The original front cab mount is still on the frame between 3rd & 4th cylinders for comparision on length.

Thanks
Cayoterun

[62 C60]

IMO I would move the engine as far forward as you can and use an electric fan on it. Then if it is still back in the cab cut out part of the fire wall and floor and fabricate a cover/console for it.

[Bob B.]

I think if you are building a truck basically just to drive around and show off that V-12, what you have there might work. Ford twin-I-beam chassis have an awfully high front crossmember, which is going to require you to mount the engine pretty tall in the chassis. Might need a body lift. Also, I have a feeling that by the time you have a complete engine and front sheetmetal, ect. on the front of that truck, your front axle is going to be overloaded and bottomed out. Even the highest capacity F-350 front coils are probably not going to be enough, and I would think the spring towers are going to need some reinforcement. I think the best way to do this and have a driveable truck would be to use something like a C-60 or Step van chassis with an I-beam/leaf spring front axle. Easy to add leaves and no front crossmember, so you can drop the engine down lower. Also would be a plus to have a straight rail C-channel chassis. Easy to shorten and fab up your body mounts too. As for mounts, remember that as installed in a truck, the V-12 had one large front mount under the crank pulley, and two mounts off either side of the bell housing. If you are just going to use the front mount and another mount at the rear of the transmission, that thing's gonna roll right over on you! You need to support the engine from the sides as well. Interesting project, keep us posted!

[jonzcustomshop]

Originally Posted by cayoterun

Ford F-350 1ton frame and running gear only. If I follow present plan, When I get motor, tranny, & driveline set in, then set a '62 GMC cab and extended front clip on it/w a steel flatbed.

The plan and ideas change from day to day.
I'm open to any and all ideas. Progress is sloow.
I picked up a junked V-12 stripped block today to use when building motor mounts and spacings. Don't have to worry about skinning up the running motor, plus much less weight to handle.
Cayoterun

here it is :page 9 ..72 ford f350

[cayoterun]

ChevLoRay has asked me about the truck.
Originally I intended to put it in the '91 Chev crewcab I had, but that would have defeated my purpose of having a restored, running V-12 for "Show and tell". The motor would have been too hard to see how they designed & built the old brutes.

It has a '72 Ford F-350 139"wb frame under it and front suspension.

It's tagged and titled now as a '62 GMC 1/2 ton.

It may eventually have a 9" Ford 2.73 gear rear end under it, single wheels, then add the Fleetside bed that was the mate to the present cab.

It's entirely up to the mods where they feel the best place to post it. I like the idea of a build section, but appreciate this site for letting me hang out here with my toys.
You guys comments and suggestions has had a big influence on how we have got this far. Several other V-12ers has been watching the site and gleaning info to use on theirs. I expect other 12ers will pop in here along with Rap 'em papy and I in the future.
Thanks for all your comments and suggestions, past and future. The discussions are a big help.
Cayoterun

[watahyahknow]

starting to get interesting now

[watahyahknow]

make it a mid engine truck like i said perfectly balanced and no long nose no heavier springs needed in the front or the rear and the cab can stay in its normal place , you can even use the zoomiepipes you made for it .
the radiator fans fueltank/gascylinders and battery under the normal bonnet and the motor backwards in the bed so the box sticks under the cab
if you use an automatic it still has the normal shift patern when you loop the kabel around , a stickshift might require some more doing or get used to shifting back to front (4th to 1th ).
if you mount the engine a bit higher on the chassis the driveshaft will fit under the sump on its way back and mount to the normal rearaxle .
you can use a chaindrive from the gearbox to the driveshaft if the truck runs backwards that way , turn the rearaxle over left to right and it will run forward again (might want to change the backplates of the brakes back so it brakes the normal way ) , hey presto stick a fork in it its done .
no sheetmetal mods needed (perhabs the transtunnel weld in reverse in the cab so the trans will slide in from the other way) just mecanical difficulties like getting the driveshaft past the engine and mounting the chaindrive solidly enough to the gearbox so it whon't twist of when you floor it .
should be pretty simple with a thick aloy plate bolted to the end of a 4X4 gearbox that usually has the 4x4 part bolted to it anyway with two bearings in there a small axle that'll fit in the gearbox and hold the one sprocket and the other the other sprocket and the atagement for the driveshaft

[89 crew]

The 3500 hd is a good choice with the front leave springs. Other than that, any 4x4 frame / leaf suspension should have the same effect. If you don't want, or have access to the 4x4 the only other option is the 50 series - 90 series. It already starts with the straight frame rail, so any cab can be made to work. Also the brake system will already be installed. All you will have to do is hook the master cylinder to the hydrovac.

[locomotive breath]

I agree. If you can find something with a straight axle it will make your life a lot easier. The mid. 70's thru 80's, 2.5 ton chassis like Chevy C-60's can be had pretty cheap and will already have the H-D running gear.