57 Panel "FAKMLC" build

[FAKKY]

Measuring at the crank bolt or fan snout ... around 3-4 degrees down to rear.
Hard to find good places to really measure accurately ...... but I read on a few forums that the 3 degrees is really from

1) Having carbs engines with a 3 degree tilt in fuel bowl - so to level.
2) having some degree in offset for ujoints

But the 3 degrees itself is not that significant.
Anyway - I decided to place another board on the front crossmember and raise the engine another board (2 total at 0.75") ~1.5".

Wasn't sure ..... seemed high ..... but as I started putting on the front rack/pinion steering ... its rubbing anyway .......

So at this point ..... think I am going to be forced to go up further yet again .... although it still seems high to me ....... maybe just a little ...... else have to rework that line somehow as a flex line or something.

[FAKKY]

Board thickness



Issue with crank rubbing on oil feed line.



Better pic ^^

[dsraven]

you could always replace that oil feed fitting with a 90 deg fitting that is lower profile than a tube bend can allow. you would need to make a new tube but that's pretty easy. maybe get you enough room. just remember the engine will torque up and move some as well. how about a dimple in the firewall to allow the fuel rail protector clearance. or a recessed firewall to allow everything to fit plus an accelerator pedal on the inside. will you use drive by wire or cable operated throttle?
a steel wheelbarrow tub would work pretty well for a recessed firewall or a section from a steel trailer fender could be used and added to if you wanted a rounded top look. somebody on here is doing a firewall mod right now with the round top look. check post 754 for a look
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...645774&page=31

[FAKKY]

Originally Posted by dsraven

you could always replace that oil feed fitting with a 90 deg fitting that is lower profile than a tube bend can allow. you would need to make a new tube but that's pretty easy. maybe get you enough room. just remember the engine will torque up and move some as well.

Thats what I was thinking .... I might raise it just another 3/8" inch ..... but if clearance becomes too much of an issue ..... then get a custom hydraulic line made with a 90 degree fitting. How do you tell the sizes on these things ... I think it might be M16x1.5 o-ring flare style .... btu really not sure. Going to have to get on made for the reservoir/pump side anway as thats interfering with the steering linkage.

Originally Posted by dsraven

how about a dimple in the firewall to allow the fuel rail protector clearance. or a recessed firewall to allow everything to fit plus an accelerator pedal on the inside. will you use drive by wire or cable operated throttle?
a steel wheelbarrow tub would work pretty well for a recessed firewall or a section from a steel trailer fender could be used and added to if you wanted a rounded top look. somebody on here is doing a firewall mod right now with the round top look. check post 754 for a look
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...645774&page=31

If I could have a do over --- I would But so far into this I just want to get moving on now ...... and really I *think* I have enough clearance ... just would prefer if it was another 1-2" inches back. I'll be using the DBW on this setup.

Side note .... neitehr the stock manifolds or the pontiac GTO ones I have will work. Both are CLOSE .. but no beuno. Ill probably get a set of stainless eba manifolds with a rear exahust dump.

Clearance on the motor mounts will also be tight. Man there is not much room on the drivers side to fit steering/exahust and mounts in .... the ones I do have wont quite work ... I'll have to weld/fabricate something to them to get the length and angle I need to come off the frame and under the manifolds.

[dsraven]

not sure what the gto manifolds look like but the early 2000 era Camaro ones I have fit well between the frame rails etc. even with boxing plates theres lots of room.

[dsraven]

It has been awhile but I think the fitting on my steering rack was a flare, similar to a brake line. have you taken yours off yet? the small steel/aluminum line that feeds the far side of the rack?

[FAKKY]

Speed Engineering stainless headers - just awesome for the $$



Shift linkage for the 4l65e




Jegs plasma cutter - amazing also

[yossarian19]

So, when do you estimate you'll be doing sick burnouts?

I never did learn much patience, so I'll have to admire your work while my truck waits for round 2. Lookin' good!

[FAKKY]

Ha.
If I could just sit down and apply myself it would probably have been done. I keep jacking up my weekends with excuses ..... whatever it may be. Once I get started for day its ok ... but I rarely start and blow it off ....... think right now Im procrastinating on welding in the mounts as its sort of final and making a bigger deal on the position that I need to.

Goal is still for April wifes birthday ....... but really got to get moving as a LOT to do still.

[FAKKY]

So toda yI pulled off the shifter 2x and reassambled for various reasons ...... mainly to get the fit I wanted.
Am going to get the shift linkage cut ..... noticed its vary close to the NSS on trans mission and cant see how it wont rub.
I'll post in the LS section - but are most guys just not using the OEM NSS ? Never actually checked into that.

Hope to weld engine and/or transmission mounts in tomorrow.

[FAKKY]

CLEARANCE FOR SHIFT ROD or bolt if mounted on outside.

[FAKKY]

[FAKKY]

Side not for those as novice as me.
The shift selector lever on the transmission is often in the DOWN position as the shift mechanism is a cable.
When you go with a floor shifter (lokar/AS) they flip it to the rod linkage.

Lonog story short ...... if the shifter lever is down position the lever ghas to be all the way forward to be in PARK. If its like it my picture - it has to be back towards the rear to be in PARK.

Easiest way to tell is the last engagement is "long throw" to get into PARK.

[dsraven]

so? motor mounts issue resolved? got pics?
issue not resolved but not sure what to do so keep finding something else to do for forward progress?
if you have some metal skills mark the firewall with felt where it will require reshaping and figure out by how much. personally I recessed mine about 4". remove the engine to allow some work room and hammer/dolly the areas until the engine fits or else cut that area out and install a recessed firewall. this can be done with some pop rivets or self tapping sheet metal screws (often called tech screws http://store.liquidlpg.com.au/sprint...h-screws-price ) if the new overlaps the old. then, when you are satisfied with the engine fitment, you can weld it in or have that done for you. the other thing you could do possibly a little cheaper is have a sheet metal place bend up a recessed section of the firewall out of some 16ga cold rolled steel, the part in the center, and cut away what you don't need from the old part but leave some room so the new part overlaps the old part. you could use panel adhesive and rivet (using solid aircraft style rivets) the new part on and make it look decent if the rivets were well placed. finish around the edges with some filler. that way you will get the engine where you want it, just be sure to leave room on the inside for the gas pedal and comfortable access to the gas pedal, nothing worse than a cramped leg from a gas pedal that is too angled or not angled enough or a firewall that is recessed and looks great but there is not enough room for your foot on the inside so the gas pedal ends up too close to the brake pedal.
anyway, post some pics of the fix or the dilemma. maybe we can get you fired up on that fix, if not done yet.

[FAKKY]

Originally Posted by dsraven

so? motor mounts issue resolved? got pics?
issue not resolved but not sure what to do so keep finding something else to do for forward progress?
if you have some metal skills mark the firewall with felt where it will require reshaping and figure out by how much. personally I recessed mine about 4". remove the engine to allow some work room and hammer/dolly the areas until the engine fits or else cut that area out and install a recessed firewall. this can be done with some pop rivets or self tapping sheet metal screws (often called tech screws http://store.liquidlpg.com.au/sprint...h-screws-price ) if the new overlaps the old. then, when you are satisfied with the engine fitment, you can weld it in or have that done for you. the other thing you could do possibly a little cheaper is have a sheet metal place bend up a recessed section of the firewall out of some 16ga cold rolled steel, the part in the center, and cut away what you don't need from the old part but leave some room so the new part overlaps the old part. you could use panel adhesive and rivet (using solid aircraft style rivets) the new part on and make it look decent if the rivets were well placed. finish around the edges with some filler. that way you will get the engine where you want it, just be sure to leave room on the inside for the gas pedal and comfortable access to the gas pedal, nothing worse than a cramped leg from a gas pedal that is too angled or not angled enough or a firewall that is recessed and looks great but there is not enough room for your foot on the inside so the gas pedal ends up too close to the brake pedal.
anyway, post some pics of the fix or the dilemma. maybe we can get you fired up on that fix, if not done yet.

Hey DSRAVEN
I think mainly I was just fighting myself. Pretty normal.

(1)
The engine manifolds didnt fit by like 1/16 each side ...... I should have just cut the frame slightly each side - but I didnt want to ..... the Speed Engineering ones i posted above fit so well - it worked out in the end and at $140 or whatever was a good bye as stainless and look good and vband.

(2)
The steering rack - just seemed like I had the engine up a ways already more than I had seen in other builds - was worried about raising it further. But makes sense unless you have a clearance issues with hood - or trans tunnel - then no problems - just go higher ..... so I did around 1/4" and now have clearance to the lines we were talking about.

(3)
Front and rear clearance. Really didnt want to hack into firewall as didtn want to have to repaint and remove engine and so on. Just a lack of experience about how much room I needed I was really trying to get it all the way back. See post #175.
I grabbed the new radiator and fan and there was plenty of room (2.5" ?) once they were both put in rough place. so I actually bought the engine forward around 1". Looking at other builds seemed like it doesnt really matter as long as it physically doesnt touch (water pump snout) ... obviously more the beter for tooling etc

And then finally I was hung up on the 3 degree down deal. But decided from research it doesnt really matter for non carb engines.

So ...... think I should be good to go ahead ..... get the CPP transmission mount cut tomorrow morning and bolted in to support the rear .....
then start welding the front in.

[dsraven]

for the rad to water pump clearance, it boils down to having enough clearance for an electric fan.
for the 3 deg down at the rear,it can be off some. the reasons are for carbed engines, yes, but a lot of those engines had an angled carm mount cast into the intake manifold to compensate for that. the 3 deg down is also for driveline angles as well. u joints work best up to 3 deg and then after that they still work but put more stress on the u joints and other parts. they will need a 1 deg variance from a dead straight line because otherwise the needle bearings don't move on the joint trunions and this causes brinnelling. https://spicerparts.com/anglemaster/measuring-angles the engine down at 4 deg will work but ensure your pinion angle is also up 4 deg to match. a vibration will haunt you otherwise. if using a leaf spring rear suspension there is also spring wind up to consider, depending on the engine torque and the spring stiffness. this affects pinion angle under high torque so if you start out on the edge of being right it could easily wind up enough to cause a shudder under load (like a lot of lifted 4x4's get due to spring block style lifts that allow the diff to move more). google it for more info.
if you only have 1/4" clearance between your engine pulley and the steering rack fitting then you may wanna rethink it for just a bit more clearance. the engine is going to move some as it torques up under power and decelleration and can also move up and down a bit over speed bumps, pot holes etc. those things that seem to suddenly appear when driving and you have no choice but to blast through. the engine mounts can also wear and sag a bit from heat and use over time. 1/4" is really not that much clearance if you factor in any wiggle room. the rack is also rubber mounted (I think) so it can move a bit under load (like dry steering in a parking lot)
for the shift linkage you could use a bent rod idea and/or some spacers on both ends of the linkage. use some threaded rod to practice for cheap then when you get it right bend the "good" rod

[FAKKY]

Originally Posted by dsraven

for the rad to water pump clearance, it boils down to having enough clearance for an electric fan.
for the 3 deg down at the rear,it can be off some. the reasons are for carbed engines, yes, but a lot of those engines had an angled carm mount cast into the intake manifold to compensate for that. the 3 deg down is also for driveline angles as well. u joints work best up to 3 deg and then after that they still work but put more stress on the u joints and other parts. they will need a 1 deg variance from a dead straight line because otherwise the needle bearings don't move on the joint trunions and this causes brinnelling. https://spicerparts.com/anglemaster/measuring-angles

the engine down at 4 deg will work but ensure your pinion angle is also up 4 deg to match. a vibration will haunt you otherwise. if using a leaf spring rear suspension there is also spring wind up to consider, depending on the engine torque and the spring stiffness. this affects pinion angle under high torque so if you start out on the edge of being right it could easily wind up enough to cause a shudder under load (like a lot of lifted 4x4's get due to spring block style lifts that allow the diff to move more). google it for more info.

if you only have 1/4" clearance between your engine pulley and the steering rack fitting then you may wanna rethink it for just a bit more clearance. the engine is going to move some as it torques up under power and decelleration and can also move up and down a bit over speed bumps, pot holes etc. those things that seem to suddenly appear when driving and you have no choice but to blast through. the engine mounts can also wear and sag a bit from heat and use over time. 1/4" is really not that much clearance if you factor in any wiggle room. the rack is also rubber mounted (I think) so it can move a bit under load (like dry steering in a parking lot)

for the shift linkage you could use a bent rod idea and/or some spacers on both ends of the linkage. use some threaded rod to practice for cheap then when you get it right bend the "good" rod

thanks DSRAVEN
That link was pretty cool. Also found these

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MEbHcEMaCk&t=536s

https://spicerparts.com/calculators/...gle-calculator


Good point on the engine/steering "flex". I did think about it - but then thought due to being welded in place (cross member which both the engine and steering are attached to) and the steering held in by four bolts probably not going to moive much. If it did move they would move together. But .. I might shim just a small bit higher .... or monitor it and go with a 90 degree "bib" line straight down to get extra clearance.

I'll remeasure the clearance for fan tomorrow and go from there and get her welded in hopefully.

[FAKKY]

On the thread rod linkage for transmission.
It DOES rub on the NSS ..... so for now I went with a spacer using a couple of nuts.



Works well and JUST clears in all positions.

[FAKKY]

Heres basically the 2 configurations without getting way more creative

Option 1 - mounts hun inside of frame as I think intended/designed for clearance of exhaust underneath. Almost 0 clearance to mount a trans mount. Could only think to get ike a 1/4" real thick rubber matt cut to square to match the mount pad on the xmember.



option 2 - hung off below the rails. Gives too much vertical but maybe could be bridged with a spacer on bolt. probably means exhuast may have to go over TOP of xmember.

[FAKKY]

Yossarian ...... sent you a PM
Looks like you hit the same issue and "hung" it from the rail ? Post #33

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=549739&page=2

Starting to wonder if I should traise the engine and transmission up even further .... but then im pretty sure I will need to weld in a new trans tunnel cover.

[FAKKY]

think Im going to raise the engine and trans even another 1-2" to make this fit.
Might mean the tranmission cover plate needs some massaging to fit ......

I think these trucks have pretty higher vertical clearance ..... any downside to going higher ?

[FAKKY]

Idea


1) Raise engine and trans another 1"
2) Cut this section out and reweld.

Should let me get the clearance I need on having it sit inside frame which should help with the exhaust and ground clearance.

Cant think of a reason to not go higher. Trans tunnel cover will need massaging is all. Thoughts ?

[dsraven]

raise engine/trans up the required amount to get it to fit properly and have clearance for worst case scenario in all directions. leave room for some sort of fan, exhaust manifold clearance, steering column shaft clearance, front pulley clearance, firewall clearance, etc. remember it will be a royal pain to swap out belts etc if you need to jack the engine up for access. all the things you cuss engineers for now when repairing a vehicle-try not to do that. try to get the engine angle around the 3 deg mark. you can use the trans tailshaft, the oil pan gasket surface, the front pulley surface etc for an angle reference
block engine and trans firmly in that position. remember to keep the engine/trans centerline parallel to the frame so you will stay 90 deg to the rear axle. this doesn't mean the engine must stay in the center of the frame rails. some guys will offset an inch to the pass side for clearance
bolt up the middle section of your trans cross member but leave the ends off for now
fab up a new set of trans cross member frame brackets and try to hang off the web of the frame or, if hanging off the lower rail, try to connect the upper and lower rails when all done. check out a 70-80's chevy trucks trans cross member to see what I mean, it hung off the bottom rail but was braced to the upper rail as well
fab up a set of engine mounts
fab up the required trans hump cover and/or firewall cover if you needed to cut away anything there.

[FAKKY]

Thanks.

The hard part is not having done this before i keep measuring and saying - yup thats ok. Then I find out an issue like this and start thinking - raise higher ?

Just not sure if there is anything bad with going higher. For now - thats the plan - along with triming that mount so it can sit inside the frame rail.

Stupid thing is - if I had used teh transmisison mount to help me line all this up in the first place ..... I might not have had to buy a shallower pan and maybe no even the AC accessory relocation stuff.

oh well.

[FAKKY]

So ... cut the mounting TAB off where i mentioned above ... tack welded it and around half way up the main plate ..... and think that will work ...... had to pack up for night and will have to move ahead with welding and front end mounts on XMAS day time permitting or the weekend.