Ben Jammin's 1955 Chevy/GMC Project

[Daniel U]

What about front wheel spacers?

[bensimmons_05]

Originally Posted by Daniel U

What about front wheel spacers?

That is definately an option. I will have to see what kind of clearance I have with the fenders.

Thanks for the reply!

[OrrieG]

If the black and white photo is from the install manual, it looks like if the steering box was in that location the tire would miss it. that is where I mounted mine based on measurements taken from the donor truck. It kept the steering shaft angle low enough that I only needed two joints. The only interference I have is like yours but with the pitman arm which reduces full lock by 1/2 a steering wheel turn. I would rethink the location since you have not welded the flange on the frame yet. The BW picture looks correct in referece to the radiator bracket. Here are thotos of mine. Granted the axle and tires are 4" farther away from the frame than stock 2wd but same principle as what you are doing,

[Kim57]

Ben
When I look at the BW pic it looks like the forward hole is under the core support.
OrrieGs seems to match the BW pic.
Your forward hole looks to be farther back.
Kim

[bensimmons_05]

Pay close attention to the holes drilled from the factory in the frame. Also note the position of the original crossmember. Given these things I believe my measurements are exactly as the instructions. The problem with moving mine back would be the connecting rod. I'm not sure if the one that was provided in the kit is long enough. I just can not figure out why that mount is in the location it is in the instructions.

[ChuckDriver]

Ben, I'm with you on the placement based on the factory holes in the frame that you highlighted. As far as the radiator/core support mounts on the frame consider this. Your frame is a 58 and OrrieG has a 59 and it looks like the core support mounts are in the same location on the frames.

Is it a possiblity that the 55-57 mounts are in a different spot, like the one shown in the instructions you have? Don't you have another frame from a 55? Have a look at it and see if and what may be different. Just an idea, hope it helps!

[Kim57]

Maybe OrrieG can get a few measurements off his truck and see how they compare to yours.
It seems odd that the core support in the instructions is that far off.
The only thing that could explain it is if the six cylinder and V8s had them in different positions. If your truck was a 6 it may have had the support farther forward to compensate for the extra length of it and the instructions may be a V8 frame.
I don't know if they actually did that at the factory or not.
Kim

[bensimmons_05]

I really appreciate you guys brain storming with me on this one, it REALLY does help, so do not think I am trying dispute what you guys are saying.

Chuckdriver, I had that same thought. So I went outside and took a look at the 55 frame and although the brackets are a little bit different, they are in the same location. I also took some long hard looks at whatever other frames I could find on this board. Nowhere could I find a picture that looks like the one in the instruction picture. Everyone elses is like mine and OrrieG's There is no doubt that OrrieG's box is more towards the front than mine.

The V6-V8 thing sounds logical, but the core support should be in the same location...

The ONLY thing that could possibly justify this picture in my head is that possibly the mount shown in the picture is not the radiator support mount for that truck, and possibly something else.

One other thing I forgot to circle in the previous picture was the placement of the original crossmember rivets. Take a close look. The bracket in the instructions seems to fall right in the middle of the two rivets that hold the crossmember.

The big question is WHAT IS THAT BRACKET AND WHY IS IT THERE????

I PM'd dwcsr about the subject because he is always very knowledgeable about oddball facts like this. If anyone else knows please chime in. Thank you guys for scratching your heads with me...

[bensimmons_05]

url for the instructions I followed...

http://www.classicperform.com/power2.htm

[orgalmeister]

I think Kim is correct. Core supports are in different locations for V8 and 6cyl. Measure the centerline of the front set and back set of rivets. Now on the inner fender there are 2 sets of holes where the core support bolts to. 6cyl and V8 with V8 being closer to the motor. Those distances should be the same or dang close. Looks like the instruction pics are a V8.

You might want to check other vendor sites for their kits and or instructions for comparison. Brothers is one that comes to mind.

http://www.brotherstrucks.com/techar...20INSTALLATION

that's all I got for now, good luck.

Steve

[OrrieG]

My truck is an original 6 cylinder. Difference between 55-57 and 58-59 is forward of the radiator support, they are all the same distance from the firewall and front cab mount. I believe the radiator support is in the same location, the radiator for a v8 is moved towards the firewall using sheet metal attached to the original support which ties into the fenders, inner panels etc. That is what the factory assy manual shows.

I wasn't trying to stir up a hornets nest, if it works thats fine. My box location was based on measurement I took off the 74 donor truck from the steering column end to the box and the pitman arm length. Note that on 4wd the arm on the steering is on the bottom, on 2wd its on the side so it would not physically fit where Bens is. I am assuming the kit came with a pitman arm or measurements for length of one required which is probably the most important dimension for the install.

[orgalmeister]

Orrie, the sheet metal is what moves the radiator support back towards the firewall. Had a guy try to sell me one years ago at a truck show. Also had a few at the shop I used to work at out in the field.

I wish I had more info on the swap Ben. I haven't done one. I knew a guy here in NC that built these kits using off the shelf parts all GM. I tried to google him but his site is not there. This was about 10 years ago. He's down in Cornelius NC. dealt with Master power brakes to get his rotors and stuff.

Wish I could be more help.

Steve

[ChuckDriver]

Taking a break from the Christmas rush. Though I would add this to the discussion. Have a look at this photo of a factory V8 install. You can clearly see that the core support is set back a few inches. I have the filler panel that fits bewteen the hood latch panel and the top of the core support. If I can dig it out this weekend I'll get a measurement off of it. You could also do the same on the inner fender panel, as they have two sets of holes where the upper corner of the core support attaches to the inner panel.

[OrrieG]

Chuck, I looked at the assy manual again and you are correct, for the V8 they move the radiator brackets towards the firewall and fill in with tin in front not back. I looked at my frame and the v8 locations are not punched. Looking at Bens markup the front rad used the crossmember rivet. The assy manual does not show any measurements for the V8 rad placement so I am guessing that the factory must have just made long runs of V8's instead of mixing up the two. Ben sorry again for stirring the pot.

[dwcsr]

I have a stock set of 57 V8 front rails I will look at tomorrow.

[watahyahknow]

wow how could i miss this ......... thats going to be a great truck

i live in kindah a big town in europe and at times when reading stuff like this wished i lived in more rural area's to be able to find vintage tin like youre doing
in the city you dont find anything parked in someones reargarden theres nuttin there or there hiding it (its not alowed by law and neighbours are complaning and all that )
wished it was not like that , maibe i win the lottery some day and can choose my own place to live

[renegade6]

The absence of the filler panel on mine would explain the large fan shroud that I have... Does anyone sell reproductions of these or, anyone have one laying around that they don't want.

[nuke1]

Ben, the truck is coming along great, that front tab on the rails on tylers truck is for his core support, at least on his it is, we reused those brackets on his. And as for the wheel turing radius, is our stop on the spindle? other wise you will turn to sharp, as it looks you are. just my opinion. I love the ride height of the truck wery nice, good job and way to go on the truck so far.

[jcnalley]

Ben, your steering box install looks correct according to the frame holes. You could prevent the rubbing with steering stops. For an easy steering stop, can you unbolt your original steering rod from the knuckle and insert a bolt with 2 nuts there?


Now someone suggested moving the box forward a few inches....that may be a good thing. I think it would give you a longer drag link and reduce bumpsteer.

[watahyahknow]

dunno if the steeringcolumb wil go that deep (prolly will need some joints to do that ) and if hes getting problems with steeringparts hitting the exaust bacause of the different angle to the steeringbox

[bensimmons_05]

Wow, I have been out of town for a couple of days and I was happy to see a bunch to read when I got back.

"Ben sorry again for stirring the pot"

OrrieG, Don't worry a bit about it. Appreciate every bit of input you provide. I like discussing these problems with you guys so that I might get a different perspective. I have my share of "DUH" moments and sometimes you guys help me realize it.

I just hope someone else reading this can gain some knowledge about building these trucks that they didn't know before.

I could move the steering box more toward the front of the truck but the main problem is that the pitman arm setup is designed for the exact measurement I placed it, my confusion merely came because the instructions I was following had that weird bracket in there. I just assumed one of these guys would have an easy explanation, but it has turned out to be a mystery.

For the record, my sheet metal all fits fine and there is not problems with the fitment of my front end.

As for as the interference with the tire and gear I plan to address it in two ways:

1. smaller tire size

2. adding some sort of bump stop like jcnalley suggested.

I really do appreciate every comment everyone, and if I you find anything else about that weird bracket post it up.

Happy new year to ALL!

[bensimmons_05]

well nothing major happening here, but I did something that solved a couple problems for me.

The engine was touching the firewall along with the distributor and the motor was too close to use the valve covers I got. Along with that the engine mount was hitting the I beam axle.
this is before..




So I decided to move the engine to the front a couple inches. I had just mounted the transmission mount so I decided that I would take the engine out move the transmission mount to where the front bolt became the back ( about 2 1/4" forward) and install the motor mount to the new location.

Taking the old mount out wasnt hard, it was really just tacked in a couple spots. I decided to bolt it back in so if I have to move it for some unforseen reason I can.





Now I have the clearance I need for the valve covers, the crossmember is out of the way, and it put the engine more over the front axle ( I looked at a chevy trucks and noted the placement of the engine in comparison to the centerline of the wheel) it seems more like those trucks now. And I have good clearance for my radiator support. So it seemed like a little project but it gave me fixes to a lot of the problems I was worrying about.

[poncho_villa]

Time well spent I would say. It's not good to have engine parts up against the firewall, especially the dizzy cap.

[blackdiesel]

hmm, i seem to be a little late to the party. I6 and v8 core supports mounts are different. i have at least set of each setting up in the shop
also have a couple v8 filler peices that go on the top to bridge the hood latch to the core support.

[OrrieG]

Sometimes taking time off makes everything obvious when you get back to work. Definately do not want the dist cap banging around and stranding you somewhere.