INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio etc

[SkinnyG]

Actual question I put on a printed Fuel System Quiz:

14) Spell "Stoichiometric"
a. Stoechiometric
b. Stoikiometric
c. Stoicheometric
d. Stoichiometric

Nobody got it right.

[Gregski]

Originally Posted by SkinnyG

Actual question I put on a printed Fuel System Quiz:

14) Spell "Stoichiometric"
a. Stoechiometric
b. Stoikiometric
c. Stoicheometric
d. Stoichiometric

Nobody got it right.

that is hillarious!

[Jay2Cor517]

Hey Gregski, in post #68 you said there was a "gotcha" with the gauge--that it didn't come with a patch cable to work with the rest of the equipment. Is the correct part number for that cable 3846?

[Gregski]

Originally Posted by Jay2Cor517

Hey Gregski, in post #68 you said there was a "gotcha" with the gauge--that it didn't come with a patch cable to work with the rest of the equipment. Is the correct part number for that cable 3846?

that looks right, you need the male male ends like on this cable to go between the female female ends of the gauges, so this is it

[Gregski]

first of all thank you all for reading and providing positive feedback, I am trying really hard to keep this very detailed to see if we can help each other out

so its been a while since I tinkered with the truck, here in California we went from 4 years of drought to one of the most rainiest seasons in 30 years, point being the temperature and humidity extremes were insane for carburetor tuning so I limped through the winter

the last thing I just did was replace the Accelerator Pump Cam, to see if I could fix the lean stumble\hesitation condition under light throttle acceleration, truck accelerates fine when I step on the throttle, but if I am pulling away from the green light with a cop next to me or my grandma in the passenger seat, the truck leans out way too much, like 20 AFR

I'll be honest with you I was a bit intimidated at first, I did not understand what the cam does, I understood what the nozzle aka squirted did, and I upped mine from a .031 to a .035 but again what does the cam do

well recently I re read a chapter in Dave Emmanuel's HOLLEY CARBURETORS Performance, Street, and Off-Road Applications book, and finally the light bulb went on.

"... the accelerator pump cam is a timing device."

so armed with that mantra I remembered these cam graphs, so I pulled one up and stared at it, now I still aint no expert, but I like to know what the extremes are, ie whats the minimum, whats the maximum, type a mentality,

and here we see that the Blue Cam delivers a shot the soonest, and the Pink Cam delivers a shot the latest and everything else falls somewheres in the middle, ok, cool, we can work with that (I think)

[Gregski]

remember the Accelerator Pump is just a helper, there are two circuits in the carb (for purposes of this discussion we won't bring in the secondary circuit), the idle circuit and the main circuit. The Accelerator Pump helps with the transition from the way gasoline oozes in the the carb via the Idle Circuit, to the way it gets sucked in via the main jets/circuit using the vacuum created with higher RPMs (venturi vacuum ie vacuum inside the carbs throat, not intake manifold vacuum, there's a difference) so when the gas pedal is pressed down a ton of air enters the carb, and the gasoline goes ah snap, that's our queue, here we go boys, and the Accelerator Pump gives the gasoline a kick in the pants to get in there as fast as the air did, once the gasoline starts being sucked in with the air, the Accelerator Pump takes a break cause it's work is done, then you are running on the Main Circuit

so the first thing you have to do is find out what color accelerator pump cam you have, and just as importantly what hole is it screwed in at, there are two holes, #1 and #2 on the carb bracket, and the cams themselves can have anywhere from 1 to 3 holes

well I like to remove the cam and look at it, that way I can wipe it clean and see if it is damaged or warn out, so mine turns out to be Orange and it was in the #2 position

Ok, so I think I just got lucky cause I said I am going to try the Blue Cam in the #2 position to get the squirt of gasoline as fast as possible and see what that does, and if that makes it worse, I will go the other way and try the Pink Cam second hole in the #1 hole in the bracket, to get a delayed shot, this is all based on the graph above, I was going to try the two extremes

turns out the Blue Cam works amazeballz so I just left it in, light throttle acceleration be damned, truck runs fantastic!

[Gregski]

alright so here is an update two years and about 17,000 miles later

1. for some strange reason the AFR gauge started cutting out on me a few weeks ago, it sometimes won't turn on at all, I have to hit the dash with my fist Old Skool style for it to come on, yet sometimes it comes on just fine. I mentioned this to Mopar Seth, my buddy running the same setup on his Dodge 100 pickup and he says you know what mine started doing the same thing, I think he only had his for 1 year.

2. one of the two O2 sensors died so the gauge shows the E8 error, I tried to clean it gently but no dice, it's kaput

so I ordered two BOSH LSU 4.9 name brand O2 sensors online, they aren't cheap, I think $50 bucks a pop is the best deal I could find, I bought two so that I replace both of them at the same time so they get even reading, is my logic anyway

and tonight I got tired of the cutting out gauge so I tore the gauge cluster out and checked my wiring and low and behold I was actually surprised how nice and tight all the connections were so I don't think it was my amateur installation

[akart]

Starting w/that 1460 Holley carb about how much money did you spend on all those Holley parts? You know like 1450 kit. springs,pumps,jets and all that stuff. Can't wait to check out my Edelbrock 1405. I did change out some rods and jets as recommended on this forum. Runs great 13 MPG mixed and plenty of snort. Idles well... Wonder if I should just leave well enough alone. A couple hundred bucks could buy (I was gong to say a lot) of gas and there is the bit of welding and the time........ I am getting old!

[Gregski]

Originally Posted by akart

Starting w/that 1460 Holley carb about how much money did you spend on all those Holley parts? You know like 1450 kit. springs,pumps,jets and all that stuff. Can't wait to check out my Edelbrock 1405. I did change out some rods and jets as recommended on this forum. Runs great 13 MPG mixed and plenty of snort. Idles well... Wonder if I should just leave well enough alone. A couple hundred bucks could buy (I was gong to say a lot) of gas and there is the bit of welding and the time........ I am getting old!

That is a great question and the honest answer is I don't know maybe $400 in total in the very end. Keep in mind when I bought that Holley carb I did not know anything about Holley carbs, if I was to do it again I would spend more money and get a QuickFuel carb which is based on the Holley modular design but offers full tunability, they are a company down the street from Holley, ha ha.

It's not about the money/time wasted on tinkering with this, it is not just about fuel economy either ie MPGs it is about running a healthy motor, not over heating it, not fouling the plugs. A happy engine is a happy truck is a happy driver!

I run an Edelbrock 1407 (3028) carb on my '71 GMC (350 V8 automatic) I will be buying AFR gauges for that truck soon, maybe switching brands and going with AEM instead, and can't wait to tinker with metering rods etc. ha ha, I hope to do a write up on that as well, should be fun, it's a different animal with an automatic transmission and all

[rgunlock]

Hi Greg, just got my AFR and vacuum gauges hooked up yesterday. On my drive into work this morning, I was surprised to find that I'm apparently running too lean with my QJet most of the time, particularly at idle. Back on post #99 you describe what your targets were for idle, part throttle, etc. Did you find a good single info source providing target range for each case, or is that something you've come up with yourself from all the books, articles, etc. you've read. Also, I assume that your target AFR ranges aren't specific to your Holley carb, but thought I'd ask. thanks, Rick

[Gregski]

Originally Posted by rgunlock

Hi Greg, just got my AFR and vacuum gauges hooked up yesterday. On my drive into work this morning, I was surprised to find that I'm apparently running too lean with my QJet most of the time, particularly at idle. Back on post #99 you describe what your targets were for idle, part throttle, etc. Did you find a good single info source providing target range for each case, or is that something you've come up with yourself from all the books, articles, etc. you've read. Also, I assume that your target AFR ranges aren't specific to your Holley carb, but thought I'd ask. thanks, Rick

awesome and yes my numbers come from aggregation of sources plus my own experiences, since doing this write up I have given up chasing the perfect 14.7 for idle now 13.5 is fine

so 15ish for cruise

12ish for power

keep in mind this is the worst time of the year to tune, humidity, temp, humidity, and humidity lol

but play around, divide and conquer

[rgunlock]

Thanks for the response, and basically for making me aware of this tool and its usefulness. Humid or not, right now my idle after driving several miles (fully warmed up) is between 15 and 17 so I'm thinking some tweaking of the mixture is in order. I have such a strong fuel smell that I was just sure I was idling rich. But, then again I'm already at 15.1-15.4 at cruise so that seems to be good. Amazing what you can find out after a single drive with one of these gauges.

[MySons68C20]

GREAT thread Gregski!! I just finished reading the whole thing and it is filled with tons of helpful info. This will help immensely getting my QFT 750 carb set up correctly.
Thanks so much for the stellar write up & pics!
I know this is an older thread but it needs to be back to the top.

[Gregski]

Originally Posted by MySons68C20

GREAT thread Gregski!! I just finished reading the whole thing and it is filled with tons of helpful info. This will help immensely getting my QFT 750 carb set up correctly.
Thanks so much for the stellar write up & pics!
I know this is an older thread but it needs to be back to the top.

man you just made my day, thanks for the kind words, sometimes I think only my mom reads these, sometimes I think not even she does, I know I don't, ha ha

[doowopper]

subscribed

[Gregski]

Originally Posted by doowopper

subscribed

yez !!!

[70C10Ginger]

Would you still go with the same brand and kit? I’m about to swap my engine out, and want to get the freebie dialed in and make it last as long as possible for me. I love the ability to see what’s going on with your engines internals.

[Gregski]

Originally Posted by 70C10Ginger

Would you still go with the same brand and kit? I’m about to swap my engine out, and want to get the freebie dialed in and make it last as long as possible for me. I love the ability to see what’s going on with your engines internals.

great question, short answer is NO

I would not use the same "dumb" gauges because it's just too bulky, too much sheet to shove under the dash, I would instead buy two of the "smart" gauges where the circuit board aka the intelligence is actually built in to the gauge, something like this one

MTX-L PLUS: ADVANCED DIGITAL WIDEBAND AIR/FUEL RATIO GAUGE KIT, 3 FT. SENSOR CABLE
$170.99
P/N 39240

their website is still confusing as all heck so keep in mind that their under $100 bucks gauges are displays only and you still need to buy the brain module separate

For those reasons I would look at AEM they cost half as much.

PN: 30-4110
The Original Wideband UEGO Air/Fuel Ratio Gauge

[70C10Ginger]

Originally Posted by Gregski

great question, short answer is NO

I would not use the same "dumb" gauges because it's just too bulky, too much sheet to shove under the dash, I would instead buy two of the "smart" gauges where the circuit board aka the intelligence is actually built in to the gauge, something like this one

MTX-L PLUS: ADVANCED DIGITAL WIDEBAND AIR/FUEL RATIO GAUGE KIT, 3 FT. SENSOR CABLE
$170.99
P/N 39240

their website is still confusing as all heck so keep in mind that their under $100 bucks gauges are displays only and you still need to buy the brain module separate

For those reasons I would look at AEM they cost half as much.

PN: 30-4110
The Original Wideband UEGO Air/Fuel Ratio Gauge

Wow, fast and very knowledgeable response. Thank you. I looked these up, and it looks like you have to have one gauge per side. Which I like, cause it’s idiot proof. Left gauge is left bank, right gauge is right bank.do you suggest a vaccum also?

I think the best spot to put them in my 70, is under the dash panel, n the right, by the shifters. I have trailer brakes 😵*💫 I’m adding on board air also. Trying to make a fun daily I can load up and disappear into the woods for a week in also.

[Gregski]

Originally Posted by 70C10Ginger

Wow, fast and very knowledgeable response. Thank you. I looked these up, and it looks like you have to have one gauge per side. Which I like, cause it’s idiot proof. Left gauge is left bank, right gauge is right bank.do you suggest a vaccum also?

I think the best spot to put them in my 70, is under the dash panel, n the right, by the shifters. I have trailer brakes ��*�� I’m adding on board air also. Trying to make a fun daily I can load up and disappear into the woods for a week in also.

I do recommend a vacuum gauge, what carb are you running? do you have a build thread? and I don't mean to rain on your parade but I highly recommend an LS Swap, and not for power but for startability, reliability, no leakability, and no squeekability, ha ha snag a 5.3L with an automagical transmission and enjin harness for $1,500 then drop another $500 for random do dads and adapters, look at one of two The Greg LS Swap builds for details, read his HP Tunner Tutorials and then load up and disappear into the woods for two weeks minimum, lol your 70 will thank you for it

1954 Advanced Design 3100 LS 5.3L LS Swap

[70C10Ginger]

Originally Posted by Gregski

I do recommend a vacuum gauge, what carb are you running? do you have a build thread? and I don't mean to rain on your parade but I highly recommend an LS Swap, and not for power but for startability, reliability, no leakability, and no squeekability, ha ha snag a 5.3L with an automagical transmission and enjin harness for $1,500 then drop another $500 for random do dads and adapters, look at one of two The Greg LS Swap builds for details, read his HP Tunner Tutorials and then load up and disappear into the woods for two weeks minimum, lol your 70 will thank you for it

Currently running an Edelbrock 1407 tuned for Salt Lake City. I’m trying to rebuild a quadrajet, which I need to kick myself in the ass and do. Just hit up and got the build specs from quadrajetpower.com.

I’ve been wondering about that lately. I just cant, for literally no reason. I like the old pain in the ass carbureted engines 🤣 why have reliability, when you can through wrenches at something.