Working Man's Burbon

[3drburb]

You are welcome.
Just trying to help.
The garage storage end is near. These projects are never done.
You will be on the road any day now.

[HO455]

Well here are more pictures of the air bag debacle. There is no doubt they have been rubbing the spring pockets. First photos. I will fab up some cups for them and see how it goes. I can only guess that the upper plates were cut and recessed and the lower cups were omitted in order to get the truck to sit lower. I don't know if that makes sense or not.
While looking into this problem I see the PO had trouble with the brake line to the passenger side where the hard line connects to the flex line. The fitting is completely rounded and the tubing is twisted and the flex line fitting isn't lined up in the tab so the u-clip can't be installed so the flex line is rubbing the control arm. Time to make some new lines. I had hoped to wait until the motor came out to do the brake lines. Thanks for the encouraging words 3drburb.

[HO455]

I went to the Steel Yard and got a 12 x 12 piece of 1/4" plate and 56" of 4" schedule 40 pipe for $34 (It's 's $15 a cut and I know I will use the rest of the pipe somewhere)and hour and half in the shop later I had two cups for the bags. They dropped right in without issue! Yay! I do like that it's at ride height with 90 psi instead of 140 psi. Then I installed the 1-1/4" sway bar I got for $40. I used aftermarket bushings and mounted them right to the frame. I had to clearance the outer bumper brackets at the frame and the zerk fitting on the driver side bushing clamp hit the frame when the bags were aired out. (The passenger side had at least 1/2" of clearance???) I removed the offending material away from the upper spring mount. However when I put the steering through a full range of motion with the bags up and down I found that the end of the Pitman arm hits the sway bar. I thought that I may need to lower the sway bar, but having looked around the forum I'm not sure if lowering the bar mounts will make enough of a difference or if the problem is caused by how the power steering pump is mounted. If it's like the rest of the things the PO did, I will probably have to move the steering pump. We'll see what tomorrow brings.

[3drburb]

You are getting there.
Did you bolt the bag to the lower cup? If not, you will need to. One grade 8 short bolt each.

Is the picture with the Burb on the ground?

Btw before you touch the steering you should get a pair of sway bar brackets for lowered trucks that should give you the clearance as it will drop the bar off the frame.

What did the bar come out of?

I hope this helps.

[3drburb]

Was the full motion, bags up and down with the tires on the ground. These suspension do funny things in the air, so maybe take it off the jacks and stands, with the tires on the ground then see if you get the clearance.

[HO455]

Full motion was checked with the wheels off and on the ground. The photo shows the interference. Apparently some people have been able to run the bar without a spacer. It wouldn't take much to clear the bar maybe a couple of degrees difference in how the steering box was mounted or how far up the Pitman arm went up on the steering box sector shaft.
I don't know exactly what the bar came out of. The wrecking yard had pulled it and it was just tagged with the interchange number. The good thing at present is that it looks as if all is sanitary with the steering box installation. Unless there is something I am missing.
I dropped the bar and mocked it up in a lower position and started fabbing some some different mounts. But I am back to work tomorrow so no progress will be made until next Tuesday.
Thanks for the help.

[Average Joe]

Looking good!

Thanks again for taking the time to post the pics and detail of your build. You are definitly taking the time to do it right! Nice work.

[HO455]

Thanks averageJoe. I'm trying to do it right. It's going to be a daily driver, so it needs to be reliable. I should of had more pictures (I had planned to) but I get to working and forget to stop and take pictures. Too many years of working for a living. I pulled the rear wheels and replaced the old 295-50-15 michelin maypops with a pair of 275-60-15 TA's. I certainly do like the look of the taller tire.

[Dieselwrencher]

Looking real nice. Those front air bags will serve you a lot better not rubbing everything.

[HO455]

Thanks Dieselwrencher. I kinda feel bad for the PO. I have a receipt for $1700 to install the air bags back in 05. He didn't get much for his money. Plus he told me the MIC panel was given to him so it wasn't part of the $1700.

[HO455]

I got the sway bar finished today. Forgot to get a photo of the brackets before I installed them. But basically I cut the stockers down then welded a plate to the them. The front edge I cut so it was one inch high and the back at 1 1/2" high.

[3drburb]

Nice work.
Did you get the clearance you needed by adding the brackets?

[HO455]

Owwwmm? You know it cleared when I mocked it up, but I got them installed and started greasing the rest of the chassis and forgot to drop it down and check it. That will be the first thing tomorrow I do. Thanks for asking.

[nastety92]

What size front tires do you run on your truck? I see you just put some 275-60-15's on the rear.

Thanks,
Nick

[HO455]

Originally Posted by 3drburb

Nice work.
Did you get the clearance you needed by adding the brackets?

I was shooting for 1/4" and ended up with 3/16". I will keep an eye on it and if I see signs of contact I will have to put a spacer under the rear bolts. Or maybe I will have to look into installing some steering stops.

[HO455]

Originally Posted by nastety92

What size front tires do you run on your truck? I see you just put some 275-60-15's on the rear.

Thanks,
Nick

The fronts are 245-60-15's.

[HO455]

Spent most of the day remounting the air compressor. It was hanging upsidedown screwed to the plywood behind the fuel tank. I fabbed a sheet metal base that attaches to the front of the trailer hitch like a cross member would. Using some sound isolation mounts I attached the pump to the base. The result is a marked reduction in noise. Two people can have a normal conversation when it is running now. And it doesn't startle me every time it starts now.
I had to drop the air tank to flip the compressor and I glad I did. There were only three bolts holding it and one of those was backed out about a 1/4". They had installed the tank the same way as the compressor, by hanging it from the floor with 1 /4-20 bolts going up into T-nuts on the inside. There were only three T-nuts installed, but four holes drilled, so I guess it never had four bolts. The bolt that was backed off was so badly corroded and I ended up having to drill the T-nut into thirds and chisle the pieces apart to remove the bolt. This was less than optimal when it came time to put it back together, as I did some damage to the wood. So I purchased some 5/16" 3 wing T-nuts which have a larger head to make up for the damage and should allow the nuts to support the weight of the tank better. When I replace the floor I will figure a better way to mount the tank.
All in all a good day (except that I had to work outside due to the shop being slammed with work and it rained pretty good a couple of times) that finished with a short drive in the WMB! Night and day difference with the bags isolated and the big sway bar.

[HO455]

Originally Posted by HO455

Thanks averageJoe. I'm trying to do it right. It's going to be a daily driver, so it needs to be reliable. I should of had more pictures (I had planned to) but I get to working and forget to stop and take pictures. Too many years of working for a living. I pulled the rear wheels and replaced the old 295-50-15 michelin maypops with a pair of 275-60-15 TA's. I certainly do like the look of the taller tire.

I just realized the photo shows the front tire. Dhoo!

[HO455]

Dove into the brakes yesterday. The right front brake hose had a cut in the rubber sheathing and had been rubbing on the upper control arm and as I mentioned before the hard line was twisted and the fitting rounded. (Top photo) I'm surprised the WMB stopped as well as it did with the tube twisted and the rear wheel cylinder issue. (Whoops spoiler!) The fittings in the tee were frozen, as was the right side fitting to the hose. The fitting at the proportioning valve came loose so I cut the tubes at the tee and the right hose allowing me to put the tee in the vise and use a six point socket on the fittings and with some penetrating oil until they all came free with out damage. The tubing on the front brakes were two sizes. From the proportioning valve to the tee it was 1/4" tube and from the tee to the hoses it is 3/16". Pretty straightforward as I just matched the bends on the old tubing and flared the ends. Installed the new hoses in the tabs with the U clips and bolted the banjo fitting to the calipers making sure the hoses didn't touch anything throughout the suspension's range of motion I used Brakequip copper nickle tubing. It is easy to work with and if you want it can be polished to a great shine. It is standard equipment on Porsches and other high performance European cars. If you don't have a flaring kit or benders, I recommend Imperial tools, they work well, are reasonably priced, and I'm still able to get replacement parts for the set my dad bought in the early seventies. When we were half way through bleeding the front brakes I noticed that fluid was running out of the right rear brake drum. Tore it down and found the cylinder had a rusty spot that was allowing fluid past the seal cup. So two new wheel cylinders from NAPA. Which they had in stock, but it took two counter people and me 30 minutes to get the stupid computer to spit out the correct part numbers. I was sure glad I took my bad one with me. I got the right one installed, but ran out of time for the left side. I ordered up more tubing and will replace the rear tubing too. I'm not satisfied with how the lines on the rear axle are routed and how the flex hose is ty-rapped to the housing instead bolted down. This causes the tubing to flex every time the axle moves and to slowly work harden the tubing until it cracks. The brake adventure will be continued.

[LockDoc]

Originally Posted by HO455

Dove into the brakes yesterday. The right front brake hose had a cut in the rubber sheathing and had been rubbing on the upper control arm and as I mentioned before the hard line was twisted and the fitting rounded. (Top photo) I'm surprised the WMB stopped as well as it did with the tube twisted and the rear wheel cylinder issue. (Whoops spoiler!) The fittings in the tee were frozen, as was the right side fitting to the hose. The fitting at the proportioning valve came loose so I cut the tubes at the tee and the right hose allowing me to put the tee in the vise and use a six point socket on the fittings and with some penetrating oil until they all came free with out damage. The tubing on the front brakes were two sizes. From the proportioning valve to the tee it was 1/4" tube and from the tee to the hoses it is 3/16". Pretty straightforward as I just matched the bends on the old tubing and flared the ends. Installed the new hoses in the tabs with the U clips and bolted the banjo fitting to the calipers making sure the hoses didn't touch anything throughout the suspension's range of motion I used Brakequip copper nickle tubing. It is easy to work with and if you want it can be polished to a great shine. It is standard equipment on Porsches and other high performance European cars. If you don't have a flaring kit or benders, I recommend Imperial tools, they work well, are reasonably priced, and I'm still able to get replacement parts for the set my dad bought in the early seventies. When we were half way through bleeding the front brakes I noticed that fluid was running out of the right rear brake drum. Tore it down and found the cylinder had a rusty spot that was allowing fluid past the seal cup. So two new wheel cylinders from NAPA. Which they had in stock, but it took two counter people and me 30 minutes to get the stupid computer to spit out the correct part numbers. I was sure glad I took my bad one with me. I got the right one installed, but ran out of time for the left side. I ordered up more tubing and will replace the rear tubing too. I'm not satisfied with how the lines on the rear axle are routed and how the flex hose is ty-rapped to the housing instead bolted down. This causes the tubing to flex every time the axle moves and to slowly work harden the tubing until it cracks. The brake adventure will be continued.

Wow! That fitting looks pretty nasty. I really like the copper/nickel tubing, I have used it on my last three builds....

LockDoc

[HO455]

Today I removed the old rear brake lines. I found a smashed spot up where the front cross member and frame rail come together on the passenger side, the hard line above the pumpkin was rubbing the panhard bar,and the hose had several badly worn spots. (Photos 1&2) After some research I figured out why the rear hose is not correctly installed and just ty-rapped. When they swapped the six lugs out the PO took the brake lines and backing plates off of the 3:73 67 rear end and installed them on the 71-72 3:55 rear end. Which sounds great except for the mounting for the hose on the axle is completely different. The 67 Tee goes through a tab welded vertically to the upper rear part of the axle tube and is secured with a brake line clip. The 71-72 is secured by a 5/16" bolt through the Tee into a tab that is welded horizontally on the upper front of the housing. (Photo 3 which I stole from wpavlis here on the forum shows earlier 67 style. Photo 4 shows the 71-72 style on my axle along with a marvelous example of Ty-rapping and the hose that is ready to burst. The last photo shows the correct 71-72 hose). When I was trying to locate the correct 71-72 hose I learned that there are two versions for C10's one for leaf spring trucks that is 17" in overall length and one for coil spring trucks that is 20 1/4" overall length. Other differences are that on the early rear end the lines are 3/16" (7/16-24 flare nuts) from the Tee fitting to the wheel cylinders and the lines on the later one are 1/4" (3/8-24 flare nuts) from the Tee to the wheel cylinder. So to make my set up work I am running 3/16" tubing from the wheel cylinders to the Tee and then using 7/16-24 inverted flare nuts machined for 3/16" tubing. I had no problems getting the fittings local, but no one in town stocked the hose. Napa was the closest with a Friday noon delivery. The Napa part number I ordered is #36683 (Sure hope it's right). So when the hose arrives all that's left is to cut and flare the ends at the Tee. Blow the lines down and connect the new wheel cylinders and bleed. I didn't replace the lines from the master cylinder to the proportioning valve as the fittings going into the valve were frozen. I may try some soft heat on them to see if they will break free or I may just live with them for now. It just depends on how much I want another can of worms on my plate.
Oh and right off the get go I jack the WMB up and dive under it and one of the brand new KYB shocks is gushing oil out. Just %@*@#&$# wonderful! Only four miles on it.

[HO455]

The brakes got finished up today. The new hose for the rear fit like it should. The only issue came from the rear brake hard line. It has a coupler just under the passenger front floor board inside the frame. The headers are right there and it was very difficult to get the coupling tightened up. I didn't have room for two hands or the wrench and I needed to hold the coupling still and spin the flare nut to tighten. It took close to an hour to get both nuts tight in the coupling. After test a drive I am happy with the rear brake performance, but I think the fronts could be better. I will probably bleed them again in a hundred miles or so. On the test drive I noticed the drivers side door has a small gap at the top which whistles something terrible above 45 mph. I had time to quickly adjust the door but no time to test drive it and see if it was better. I also replaced the short piece of fuel hose that connects the front hard line to the rear hard line. It is inside the frame under the passenger seat. The PO said he had replaced it but it was starting to crack. I believe it is too close to the muffler. After I redo the exhaust and the mufflers are out of the way I plan on replacing the hose with a hard line.

[nastety92]

Man that previous owner really did some "NICE" work on that burb. Good thing you seem to be doing everything correct this time around. It must feel nice to get the truck up and running again and all of these little problems worked out.

[Dieselwrencher]

I bet those brakes worked really great before.... Nice job fixing all that crud.

[HO455]

Thanks guys. Several months back I installed a sender for the temperature guage (there was no way to tell engine temperature) and replaced the wire from where the PO had cut it at the firewall. The guage worked until the engine temperature got to 160* then it would peg the guage high. I confirmed the sender being bad with an ohm meter. I finally received the replacement yesterday. I got it swapped and went for a test drive ( It read zero ohms above 160 degrees). The guage now reads about 1/3rd of scale with the engine at 190*. Progress! I went to the gas store and got the WMB some new gas. The attendant didn't believe it was a Suburban. He said it had to be a hearse. He liked it but wouldn't drive something dead people had been in. I forgot to check if the door was now sealing as the sun was out for the fifth time this winter and I had the windows down.