Brake Job from Hell

[hdflstf]

I finally broke down and got into redoing the brake system from top to bottom. Already had rear shoes from the PO, new calipers and wheel cylinders, new master cylinder, rebuild booster. Front pads coming this week. So I thought I was in good shape. So I start with the rears and the drums won't come off - first bad sign... After beating them for what seemed like an eternity (with a plastic hammer) I got the first one off. The drums had big grooves from the rivets in the pads and the primary pad was worn down to the backing. Automatic adjusters wouldn't turn and the wheel cylinders puked fluid once the rods were removed from the rubber covers.
So I run all over town and managed to find some replacement drums and hardware kits for the rear. Had a thought to check the pads the PO gave me - they are 2.75" wide instead of 2.5" wide like the truck - figures. So off I go to find pads...
Oh yeah, found another little problem, 3 of the 6 leafs are cracked all the way through. At least that explains why the truck doesn't sit quite level. Guess I'm in the market for some springs...
Started in on the front today. Not as bad as the rear - yet.. So far I have only found a mis-installed pad. It's simply amazing the truck stopped at all.

[hdflstf]

It just keeps getting better. One of the rotors has big grooves on both sides so I need rotors too.
The one that really set me off was the 'new' caliper that had been crossthreaded where the brake line was supposed to go. So now I am stuck for a couple of days waiting for parts - again.

[Long Roof]

Ahhh, the joy of owning some shade tree mechanics used vehicle. Seems like every used car I've ever owned had some farfed up repair.

It should stop great when you get done. then you will have a great big smile

[hdflstf]

Originally Posted by Long Roof

Ahhh, the joy of owning some shade tree mechanics used vehicle. Seems like every used car I've ever owned had some farfed up repair.

It should stop great when you get done. then you will have a great big smile

Yeah, I know.. it just pisses me off that everything is wrong at once.. It amazes me that it stopped at all.

Looks like I need to remove the MC and bench bleed it again since I seem to have missed an air bubble. I hate it when that happens.

[hdflstf]

It just keeps getting better - arrrrgh!

Got the replacement caliper today for the one with the f-ed up threads. Put it on and got to bleeding the brakes. Only problem was that I almost got sprayed in the face with a stream of fluid coming out from between the caliper and the brake line - WTF. Tightened it some more, tried again, same thing. So I took the caliper off and inspected it on the bench. Picture shows what I found. I'm so pissed right now (after a lousy day at work too) I can hardly see straight. Needless to say this caliper os boxed and ready to go back tot he parts store.

[hdflstf]

Forgot to mention that I started to take the front hubs apart to change the rotors. One side had a snap ring, one didn't. One had a gasket, the other had what looks like, if it was in one piece, it might have been a gasket.

Any good places to find these items before Saturday?

[hdflstf]

Finally made some good progress. It's a good thing I did the rotors since the front wheel bearing grease was on its last legs, 1 snap ring was off and one of the bearing locknuts was loose.
Now I just need to finish bleeding the system. Seems like I'm betting more air than fluid though. Time to re-check all the fitting I've touched.

So any brake bleeding thoughts or advice would be welcome..


Also, I've been looking for the torque value for the locking hub allen bolts with no success. Anyone have that number handy?

[Old Chevy Mech]

I'd use the torque value listed for the fastners. If you have a Chilton manual they should list some generic fastner torque specs. http://www.torqwrench.com/Info/fasteners.php this sight might help in case you dont have one.

Frank

[Old Chevy Mech]

I'd drain all the fluid and make sure you have fresh clean fluid coming from all wheel cylinders. Also a technique I've been doing for 25+ years is I put antiseize lube on all bleeder threads, and coat the outside of the bleeders with the antiseize as well.

Frank

[hdflstf]

Originally Posted by Old Chevy Mech

I'd drain all the fluid and make sure you have fresh clean fluid coming from all wheel cylinders. Also a technique I've been doing for 25+ years is I put antiseize lube on all bleeder threads, and coat the outside of the bleeders with the antiseize as well.

Frank

It's all new fluid for sure. One of the first things I did when I got the truck.. Antiseize - good idea for a number of reasons. Thx

[70rs/ss]

I usually figure on brakes on any "old" vehicle I buy, my life and the lives of my fellow driver's isn't worth me chancing someone elses work, or lack there of! Looks sweet and now you'll be able to drive it with piece of mind, knowing it is done "right".

[hdflstf]

Originally Posted by 70rs/ss

I usually figure on brakes on any "old" vehicle I buy, my life and the lives of my fellow driver's isn't worth me chancing someone elses work, or lack there of! Looks sweet and now you'll be able to drive it with piece of mind, knowing it is done "right".

I know what you mean..

Anyhow, I'm up and running. I have a soft pedal and a 'brake' idiot light. My suspicions are that the rears are not adjusted up all the way yet. So a little more work / troubleshooting to go.

[hdflstf]

Bled the fronts again. Now I've got no front brakes. I'll try again tomorrow after work - in the daylight.

[Blue_71]

2 questions- what year is your truck? 71 purposely had a large groove theoretically to help the pad stay put once it wears down a bit.

where did you get your rotors? my k20 is ready for some rotors and those look sweet!

[hdflstf]

Originally Posted by Blue_71

2 questions- what year is your truck? 71 purposely had a large groove theoretically to help the pad stay put once it wears down a bit.

where did you get your rotors? my k20 is ready for some rotors and those look sweet!

'72. One had a groove, one didn't.. One had a pad not hooked over the top of the caliper attach bolt causing damage tot he pad and rotor.

Got them from Summit. They are made by powerstop. Didn't want to go with the chinese made crap all the parts houses carry.

[72BlckButy]

Darn PO's...

[Old Chevy Mech]

Did you get the torque spec you asked for?

Frank

[hdflstf]

Originally Posted by Old Chevy Mech

Did you get the torque spec you asked for?

Frank

Not yet. I took a look at the generic numbers and my guess is right there at 20 or 25 ft-lb. So long as I don't lock the hubs, it doesn't matter so it's driveable.

[hdflstf]

Been trying everything I know and then some and still get the idiot light and no brakes to speak of. What a nightmare. Narrowed it down to getting air in the master cylinder. It was new so I was not suspecting problems there.

So I bench bled the old MC, installed it, bled the system, and like magic I have brakes. Time to go ***** at the part store and time to disassemble the new MC to find out what they screwed up.

I guess friday the 13th is a good day after all.

[Long Roof]

I replaced the MC on my 80 vette once and it was a nightmare too. I went through everything and never thought it would be the MC. After pulling out all my hair I took it back for another. The second did the same thing so I was really second guessing myself then. I went back for a third one and decided to get a brand new MC instead of the remans I used the first two times. Worked great. I spent a ton of time on that little project and learned that I will absolutely never buy another remanned MC again.

Good luck.

[hdflstf]

Originally Posted by Long Roof

I replaced the MC on my 80 vette once and it was a nightmare too. I went through everything and never thought it would be the MC. After pulling out all my hair I took it back for another. The second did the same thing so I was really second guessing myself then. I went back for a third one and decided to get a brand new MC instead of the remans I used the first two times. Worked great. I spent a ton of time on that little project and learned that I will absolutely never buy another remanned MC again.

Good luck.

Yeah, this was a new one. The old one is working fine for the moment. Actually have brakes and can drive ol' blue once again.

[mr48chev]

Two things, did you adjust the rear shoes up pretty close before putting the drums on? When I was doing brake jobs on a daily basis I would adjust them so that the drum just slipped over the shoes when I put it on.
A MityVac is pretty handy for bleeding brakes by your self and is great for testing vacuum operated pieces on the vehicles. I got mine off a tool truck but Sears has them and I think theirs comes with the cup to bleed brakes and clutches with. It's great when no one is around to help.

Here's a link to a slick little pressure bleeder that a guy built (rigged) that anyone could put together and it is so simple that you have to say "why didn't I think of that". http://www.bmw-m.net/TechProc/bleeder.htm
You would have to come up with your own cap for the master cylinder but I think a spare lid with a fitting hooked to the top and a gasket with the center cut out would work fine.

[hdflstf]

Originally Posted by mr48chev

Two things, did you adjust the rear shoes up pretty close before putting the drums on? When I was doing brake jobs on a daily basis I would adjust them so that the drum just slipped over the shoes when I put it on.
A MityVac is pretty handy for bleeding brakes by your self and is great for testing vacuum operated pieces on the vehicles. I got mine off a tool truck but Sears has them and I think theirs comes with the cup to bleed brakes and clutches with. It's great when no one is around to help.

Here's a link to a slick little pressure bleeder that a guy built (rigged) that anyone could put together and it is so simple that you have to say "why didn't I think of that". http://www.bmw-m.net/TechProc/bleeder.htm
You would have to come up with your own cap for the master cylinder but I think a spare lid with a fitting hooked to the top and a gasket with the center cut out would work fine.

Rear shoes - yep. Also did a bunch of roll down the driveway backwards with multiple stops to finish the adjustment. I think the rears were the only reason I could stop at all..
The mityvac wasn't cutting it so a got an air powered unit which works great. Been bleeding and bench bleeding with no success. As soon as I install the old MC and bleed all 4 corners ONE time, I have brakes - go figure.