skinny wheels fat stance

[low&slow]

Kinda like the title says guys. Going to be starting on the front suspension hopefully here in a few months or so. Going to lower the truck (not sure how low), disc brakes, and the whole sh-bang. I'm going to be running a skinny rim, most likely a 15x6 or 15x7. I have 15x7's on the front now, but I absolutely hate the look of the wheels being tucked in so far. I will not be running any wheel size bigger than what I listed. So on to the questions. Pics are always welcome too.

1. How can I get the wheel out closer to the edge of the fender without using spacers?

2. Do I have to get longer upper/lower A arms to push the wheel further away from the frame? If so what companies sell them?

Next question is also something else I want, but not sure if it's possible.

3. How can I get that negative camber without using bags? I don't want a ton of camber, just a little bit. Enough to be noticed.

All I'm looking to do is give the truck a fatter stance in the front with the things I like without getting a fatter tire. Thanks in advance.

[Drewski23]

i dont think you can make it stick out more without spacers or without a wider wheel...

and all the spindles i have seen either retain factory width or bring it in a little bit to accommodate larger wheels

i would think longer control arms would be the only option there and if so id think its gonna have to be a custom job

[67_C-30]

Why is the issue with spacers? I have put hundreds of thousands of miles on good, billet spacers like these:




http://www.ebay.com/itm/2pc-TOYOTA-F...9bdfa7&vxp=mtr

[DreamRyder1963]

You could also get wheels with less backspace which will cause it to stick out farther.
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[low&slow]

I honestly don't have a problem with spacers, I just don't know how big of a spacer I will need to have.

I've seen it done with having the wheels pushed out further, and I also have pics, but I just don't know how they did it. I'm thinking I'll have to have custom parts made, but what do you guys think that will cost me?

[Robznob11]

Im not 100% positive but im pretty sure the 73 up front stance is wider than the 67-72 and is a bolt in.
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[67_C-30]

Custom A-arms will cost big money, and then you'll need custom tie rods. It would be WAY cheaper to buy a set of $65 spacers, and even if you do get the wrong ones, it will still be way cheaper to order another set of them. With a 7" wheel, I'd think a 2" spacer would set it out a lot. I put a 1.5" spacer on the front of the truck below to achieve the same look, and it sat the wheels out so much that the hubcap looked like a dually to me. Without a factory cap sticking out further than the edge of the wheel, it would have probably looked great.

I'm sorry I don't pics. I had some, but I lost them in a house fire in 2010.

[low&slow]

Originally Posted by Robznob11

Im not 100% positive but im pretty sure the 73 up front stance is wider than the 67-72 and is a bolt in.
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Can anyone verify this? Also does a 73 and up front end have disc brakes already? Can't remember if they do or don't. Pretty sure they do though.

67-c-30 - Sorry to hear about the fire. I like your look a little. I'm looking to bring that wheel out further about another inch or so from where your tire is at in the pics. That way the tire is I'd say about half an inch away from the lip on the fender.

[67_C-30]

Originally Posted by low&slow

Can anyone verify this? Also does a 73 and up front end have disc brakes already? Can't remember if they do or don't. Pretty sure they do though.

67-c-30 - Sorry to hear about the fire. I like your look a little. I'm looking to bring that wheel out further about another inch or so from where your tire is at in the pics. That way the tire is I'd say about half an inch away from the lip on the fender.

Yes, the '73 set-up is a disc brake set-up. IIRC, they are about 3/4" further out than drum brakes. I don't know if they set out further than factory '71 - '72 disc brake set ups.

The rim is a factory 15 X 6 without the spacer in those pics. The 1.5" spacer set it out about an inch from flush with wheel wells.

Like I said, I wish I had those pics to show you.

[low&slow]

That makes sense now. I guess spacers is my only option for now.

Is 73 and up the only years with disc brakes? Does 72 have disc brakes? More info on all that would help me.

Also, does anyone know how I can get negative camber without using bags?

[franken]

Negative camber?
You want to have poor tire wear?
Sorry, I guess I'm not current on style
Is this like drifting where you race to go slower than the other guy while using more tire? NASCAR guys take note

[67_C-30]

Originally Posted by low&slow

That makes sense now. I guess spacers is my only option for now.

Is 73 and up the only years with disc brakes? Does 72 have disc brakes? More info on all that would help me.

Also, does anyone know how I can get negative camber without using bags?

Disc brakes became standard on all trucks after '71. '71 and '72 disc brakes are practically the same as '73 - '87 set-ups. The spindles, tie rods, ball joints, etc all interchangeable after '71.

On the negative chamber, I kinda agree with franken on this one. Negative camber is a by product of a slammed truck when they are aired out. They don't normally go down the road like that. You are not going to be able to keep tires on your truck if your wheels are permanently set that way...

[low&slow]

Originally Posted by franken

Negative camber?
You want to have poor tire wear?
Sorry, I guess I'm not current on style
Is this like drifting where you race to go slower than the other guy while using more tire? NASCAR guys take note

Yes negative camber. I'm not too worried about tire wear. This truck is being built as a drag truck and occasional show truck only (NOT a trailer queen). The camber is more for show than anything else, just to give the truck more of a lower look to it without the truck actually being that low (slammed). I don't want a lot of camber, just enough to notice.

67_C-30 - Thanks for the info on the years and the interchangeable parts.

[slow-1]

Originally Posted by low&slow

Yes negative camber. I'm not too worried about tire wear. This truck is being built as a drag truck and occasional show truck only (NOT a trailer queen). The camber is more for show than anything else, just to give the truck more of a lower look to it without the truck actually being that low (slammed). I don't want a lot of camber, just enough to notice.

67_C-30 - Thanks for the info on the years and the interchangeable parts.

I am an old guy and if you ask my kids, I have no idea what is cool, but to me, when I see a lowered truck with wrong camber, it just looks like it was done wrong and needs fixing.

The Patina thing snuck up on me too...maybe its the next cool thing?

[67_C-30]

Originally Posted by slow-1

I am an old guy and if you ask my kids, I have no idea what is cool, but to me, when I see a lowered truck with wrong camber, it just looks like it was done wrong and needs fixing.

The Patina thing snuck up on me too...maybe its the next cool thing?

That patina thing is never going to catch on! -lol

[no_rice]

You do realize if you do actually intend to drag race the truck like you mentioned on occasion, or even drive it very much, that it will be twitchy as hell at speed. Even with a few degrees (enough to notice as you mentioned) of camber... it will dart all over the place.
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[low&slow]

Originally Posted by no_rice

You do realize if you do actually intend to drag race the truck like you mentioned on occasion, or even drive it very much, that it will be twitchy as hell at speed. Even with a few degrees (enough to notice as you mentioned) of camber... it will dart all over the place.
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How is that so? I've been in vehicles at high speeds that have a lot more negative camber than I want, and those vehicles never had steering problems. Not arguing, just wondering.

Everyone, thanks for the comments. It's still just an idea for the camber. I'd just like to know as much as I can about the pros and cons of having a slight negative camber.

[Tx Firefighter]

Yank the shim packs out of the upper control arm mounts and you'll have plenty of negative camber.

You won't find a good answer for your wheel spacer needs on the Internet. Bolt the wheels on and measure it to see how much further you want it to stick out. Then order the spacers YOU decided are right.
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[low&slow]

Originally Posted by Tx Firefighter

Yank the shim packs out of the upper control arm mounts and you'll have plenty of negative camber.

You won't find a good answer for your wheel spacer needs on the Internet. Bolt the wheels on and measure it to see how much further you want it to stick out. Then order the spacers YOU decided are right.
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Hey thanks for answering my original question. You say if I take out the shim packs, it will give me plenty of camber. How much camber is that actually (estimates okay) going to give me?

Also, with taking the shim packs out, is there a way I can adjust the size of them so I can play around with how much camber I may want?

[Tx Firefighter]

The more shims you take out, the more negative camber you'll get. You can get several degrees I'm sure. Problem is, unless you pull equal thickness of shims out of the front and rear locations, you're also gonna be messing with your caster too.

Combine a drop coil spring, which will cause negative camber anyway, along with pulling shims and you'll get lowered VW bug type of camber. Perhaps you can install the drop springs and find a friendly alignment guy who will set it up for you. I'd expect to have to sign a disclaimer though, because he's gonna be turning out an alignment that is outside of normal limits and he's not going to want to see you come back complaining of tire wear.

I don't really "get" the desire for negative camber but I know some guys like it. You said you wanted it to make your stuff look lowered. Thing is, you can slam one 5 or 6 inches in the front and still adjust proper camber for maximum tire wear. You wouldn't need any camber to make your stuff look lowered, there would be no doubt to anyone seeing the truck that it was hammered down.

[JointTech]

then you can put on tires 4 sizes to small and run with all the cool kids

[Tx Firefighter]

Wanted to add, I wasn't trying to sound like a wise guy when I said to measure for your wheel spacers yourself. Don't spend your money on something someone on the other end of the Internet tells you to if you can possibly make the choice yourself.

Lower your truck, adjust your camber as you desire, install you wheels and tires. Now, get under the truck and look and measure the distance from your tire sidewall to the inside of the fender. Then decide how much you want to move it out and order spacers for that. But don't get too greedy, you want sufficient clearance between tires and sheetmetal throughout the full suspension cycle. If I can't slip my hand between tire and sheetmetal, its too close in my opinion.
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[JointTech]

there are tireshops that wont work on cars with spacers. just fyi. Safety or liability issue I guess.