Heavy Machines powered by GM diesels or Detroits

[special-K]

I never knew the sound of one diesel from another in my younger days. But, there was always that distinct sound I eventually learned could only be a 2-stroke Detroit. It seemed most fire engines and about all cranes had that sound. I also will never forget that sound of site work being done in the distance and hearing those pans rocking supercharged Detroits. In elementary school my best friend's dad was an excavating contractor. I remember going out to development sights on Saturday mornings with him. More than once we'd arrive to find the 6-71 blower stolen off a pan. His dad said they were bolting them on Mopars. This was in the '60s, the height of drag racing...IMO. Oh yeah, can't forget the sound of a Detroit powered boat. How about twin Detroits? Now that's some harmony there!

[70c10-08]

I thought I'd revive the thread back from the dead I had just gotten back from Grand Island where they had a tractor show called the Classic Green Reunion it was a John Deere only show and to what my wondering eyes did appear but a 1961 John Deere 8020 that was sold in 1965. Supposedly the story goes that a famer who owned a large farm wanted a large plow and tractor to use on his operation so he traveled to Waterloo, Iowa and saw this 8020 well John Deere didn't want to sell it anymore since it pretty much was a flop. Mr. farmer okay since you don't wanna sell me that tractor I'll take my cash and go home. Hey, hey, hey, hey wait a minute if you've got cash right here and now maybe there's a deal we can work out with you sir I think we can sell you that 8020. And like a Detroit should this ol' girl had drip pans underneath her lol

[C10 - C90 Bill]

Interesting story.

I guess my JD would had fit into the show just fine.

Did you see any 435's there with the 2-53 Detroit?

[special-K]

Thanks for bringing this back. WOW, what a show! I love seeing the less common models at such a show.

Back in Feb '18 a friend and I went to the Keystone Antique Truck and Tractor Museum in Petersburg, VA. They had some great tractors and a few big Detroit powered beasts.

[70c10-08]

sadly no John Deere 435's or their industrial brother the 440 but plenty of other Deeres and another 8020 outside and a 29 GP Wide Tread all original but unfortunately only 2 Detroit Diesels there

[C10 - C90 Bill]

Great shots. In the 3rd picture taken from a distance, they almost look like those little metal toy tractors.

Looks like it was a great show for sure.

[special-K]

Originally Posted by C10 - C90 Bill

Great shots. In the 3rd picture taken from a distance, they almost look like those little metal toy tractors.

Looks like it was a great show for sure.

Yeah, they all fit on that big white table top. Really neat to see them all gathered and in that condition. What a great show, inside and out.

[70c10-08]

Thought I would Bring this thread back into the spotlight I recently found a video on YouTube where they briefly talk about the (General Motors "Jimmy diesel Engine" that will be adapted to all John Deere 440 Diesel Industrial Tractors) this film is mostly about the 1959 Industrial line from John Deere. Unfortunately the whole film isn't showcased that's how the original poster received it but they do talk a bit about the 440 diesel enjoy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSCMiZCYNKo

[kipps]

A quick summary of the Deere/Detroit two-cylinder mash-up.

The basic layout of these tractors started as the model M in 1947. The M used two vertical cylinders, thermo-siphon cooling, a square 4x4 bore and stroke, a four speed transmission, and no live pto. The M was renamed the 40, then the 420, and finally the 430. During this extended lifespan, the engine got bored a little bigger, was fitted with a water pump, live pto option, five speed option, crawler track option, three-point hitch, etc.

Deere realized that there was an increasing industrial market for their tractors, so they established a Deere industrial division to specifically design tractors to that market. The Deere 430 was a very handy tractor for highway maintenance, so they took that model, and specifically remade it for their industrial customers.

Key changes included replacing the center clutch housing with a much beefier version. This new clutch housing had more attachment points for loaders and other mounted equipment. They also built a more bullet-proof grille, simplified the hood, and painted the tractor yellow. To distinguish it from the agricultural 430, they renamed it the 440.

The 430 was the only model that Deere was offering in a crawler(tracked) version at the time, and the Industrial division got their hands on that one as well. They made similar changes to the 430 crawler, such as heavier castings, simplified grille and hood, and yellow paint. This industrial crawler was also sold as a 440, and was commonly equipped with a blade as a small bulldozer.

The market was looking for a diesel engine in this size of tractor, so the industrial division offered both the 440 wheeled tractor and the 440 crawler tractor with the GM 2-53 diesel engine.

This 440, wheeled, tracked, gas, and diesel, was offered for sale from 1958-1960. It may have been built a few years longer, but I don't know that for sure.

The Agricultural division got wind of the success this GM-equipped tractor was having, and re-modified one of the wheeled tractors back to suit their customers. The tractor retained the beefier center casting, but the sheet metal was swapped out for the classic 30-series styling. The radiator of this diesel tractor was wider than the original 430, so the sheet metal had to be widened accordingly. This tractor was sold in conventional green and yellow paint, and was numbered the 435. The 435 was sold in 1959 and 1960.

So this was one of the rare cases of an Ag tractor going to the Industrial division for redesign, and then that redesigned tractor going back to the Ag division for their re-redesign.

[kipps]

Another quick comment on the Deere 8010/8020 saga.

This tractor was a hurried attempt to get something big on the market in the late 50's. They purchased every major component of that tractor, and bolted it together in a simple frame. They built 100 of the 8010 tractors. Just a few years later, Deere re-purchased all they could find of those 8010's, did a significant upgrade to a faulty transmission(IIRC), and resold them as 8020's. No new 8020's were built. In recent years, it's come out that Deere only found 99 of the 8010's, and so one 8010 has survived without getting its factory conversion.

As far as I know, this is only a theory on the 8010 introduction. I haven't seen any conclusive statement saying that it's definitely correct. It does make a lot of sense, though. Deere had been working on the New Generation during much of the 1950's. In the late 50's, it was increasingly obvious to outsiders, including the competition, that something big is happening.

The 8010 was unveiled a little ahead of the rest of the new generation, and Deere's competitors breathed a sigh of relief. "So that was what all the hoopla at the Deere plant has been all about." This big new tractor would not be any real competition to their own product lines. As long as Deere didn't introduce any revolutionary new tractors in the 50-70 hp size, all was good.

Shortly after, Deere DID unveil their new 3010 and 4010 tractors, and all was NOT good with the competition!

The 8010 was not a revolutionary tractor, by any stretch. It appeared to be that Deere was just testing the waters with a "put-together" tractor, before committing a lot of resources to building a real Deere 4x4.

[70c10-08]

Those summaries are true and the reason Deere went with GM was at the time they already had their hands full with developing the "10 series" so they wanted something economical, reliable and, powerful. With the 8010 they had considered a Mack engine but, Deere also wanted an engine with a great service network.

[C10 - C90 Bill]

Being a 435 owner, I have searched it's history pretty thoroughly. The 2-53 in the 435 was kind of a "curve ball" to it's competition as they were developing the 10 series (New Generation) as 70c10-08 has mentioned. The development of the New Generation was a pretty well kept secret. They actually first tried with their own JD Diesel in the 435, but it kept breaking Crankshafts. They considered a Perkins 3-Cylinder, but realized the 2-53 was a better fit as well as keeping in the tradition of the 2-Cylinder. They were made just 13 months. About 10 months in '59 and about 3 months in '60. Total production was 4,626.

Funny thing to me is that I would rather have a '59 or '60 435 than a New Generation tractor.

[70c10-08]

How bout I bring this back with an article from the March 2020 issue of Diesel World Magazine. It's titled "Double Jimmy" talking about the 1964 Euclid TC-12. Sorry if the words are kinda hard to read.

[MalibuSSwagon]

easier to read here:

https://www.dieselworldmag.com/uncat...d-tc-12-dozer/

[70c10-08]

How about this? This Big Bud comes in at a whopping 135,000 lbs or 68 short tons fully ballasted and full of 1,000 gallons of diesel fuel. He is 25 ft. 6 inches wide with duals. He's 28 ft. 6 in. long and, 14 feet tall to the top of the cab. powered by a 16v92 Detroit putting out 760 horses originally but, later increased to 1100 hp. With 6 forward speeds and 1 reverse, he also makes 3100 lb ft of torque at 3401 rpm. The 1977 Big Bud 747 they only built one in Montana and it's the largest farm tractor ever produced.

[C10 - C90 Bill]

Interesting machine.

Would love to hear it run.

[kipps]

The "Big Bud" tractor is going back to work again.

It had a set of "one-off" tires installed from the factory. That company that made those tires went out of business in 2000, so there was no chance of getting them to make any replacements.

In 2009, the tires were getting in poor enough shape, that the owners decided it wasn't feasible to keep using the tractor. The tractor spent the next decade in several different museums.

In 2017, Titan came out with a new tire size intended to directly compete with tracks. This tire size was sized almost perfectly for the Big Bud, so they were fitted to the tractor in 2020. The owners are bringing the tractor back to the farm to put it to work.

[C10 - C90 Bill]

My 13.6 X 28 Tractor Tire just cost me $450. Wonder what that one cost?

[70c10-08]

Here are some videos on the Big Bud 747 of it running, transporting it and getting a tire change.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkY8-zQoNiA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KborvzAsd3I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02jBUZL4hTQ

[C10 - C90 Bill]

Great videos.

Thanks for posting them.

[70c10-08]

I subscribe to the Green Magazine, it's a magazine for John Deere enthusiasts and the featured model for October 2020 is none other than the John Deere model 435 with the 2 stroke "Screamin Jimmy" Detroit 2-53. Here are some scans I did of the article about that tractor. Hopefully it can be read, there is an online version of the magazine but, you have to pay to subscribe to the online version.

[70c10-08]

Like Paul Harvey used to say "And now here's the rest of the story"

[70c10-08]

last bit of the article

[C10 - C90 Bill]

Looks like a good write up. I will read it in detail as time allows. Thanks for posting it. Although I dis-agree with the Production Number breaks-downs. The 435 was made in approx the last 10 Months of '59 and just the first 3 Months of '60 (Refer to my post #69 for what I have learned on it). I also have original JD Manuals and will produced the Numbers the book states when I get a chance to dig them out. They got the total right though, 4626. Great pictures on it too. Funny, mine has a hole in the front grille panel like the one in the 2nd pictures has. There is a tap there for the hydraulic system. Not sure what they were running on it, but it's there, lol.

[special-K]

Thanks for sharing that. That would be the perfect tractor for me