Dies and won't start...

[71wongbed]

So, my '71 is driving me crazy lately.
The latest is it will just die and then refuse to start. I think I have narrowed it down to the carb (because i've replaced everything from the tank to the carb in the fuel system, and the ign coil, plugs and wires). Tell me if I'm wrong.
It's got a Edel 1406 and I was recently reading and noticed that the electric choke was never hooked up, so I ran a wire to the hot side, but it looks like it's not 12v, so that needs to be looked at, but this problem has been leaving me stranded for months before this.
I will be driving, and the truck will just die. It is more likely to happen when I pull off the accelerator especially like when I am getting off the freeway, so higher speeds. But it has happened when just driving down a side street. Time of day doesn't seem to be an issue, nor does summer or winter.
This last time it died as i pulled off the freeway, I coasted into a parking lot because it refused to start. I cranked it with no throttle, feathered throttle, FULL throttle and never could get it to start. As I crank it smells kinda gassy near the hood, so my guess is that it is totally flooded. Help!
The truck has been sitting there for two days, and I'll be going up there tomorrow to see if it will start so I can get it home to work on it.
I'm a student/dad with very little time, so any help/direction is greatly appreciated. Thanks!
Reuben

[justtime520]

you should take off that electric choke and just make it manual. I have the thunder series on mine and the choke stay were it needs to without giving me hell. And if your truck is near tucson let me know i got a edelbrock 600 cfm 1405 i thinks thats the right edelbrock number its 4brl. manual choke. carb works just fine you can have. from one 67-72 arizonian to another

[71wongbed]

Thanks!
I just might have to take you up on that, I'm in the south end of Chandler, only about an hour and a half from you!
I've got a Carter 9605s that my neighbor gave me. I've done some research and it looks to me like it is pretty much the same as the 1405. is that true? I've debated on just putting it on cause it has a manual choke. so you would recommend that?
I'll send you a message for your number if that's the route I'm going to go. and we'll talk shop!
Thanks again!
Reuben

[justtime520]

give me two minutes i am going to get the carb and double check for ya.

[spinning wheels]

In Chandler, AZ. Your truck should start without the choke on. It sounds like you are not getting fuel up to your carb. How is your fuel pump? Your sending unit isn't clogged up?

I had my truck running kinda crappy. It started to die, and then I would use starter fluid, it would run fine. A little ways down the road, again it would die.
I finally found a piece of fuel line that was just falling apart. Changed that part and its like day and night. Truck runs fine. By the way, I am running an Edelbrock 1406 with the choke wired to a 12 volt supply, and I have had no problems with the carb.

[justtime520]

yup its a 1405 manual choke. it works just fine. I just swapped it out for a thunder series 650. you shouldnt have any problems with this carb it was rebuild less than a year ago. i have the bottom gasket still in good shape and top air filter gasket. if you want it let me know and its yours free of charge.
and a side note did you change your fuel filters. or it could be your fuel pump, just throwing it out there

[71wongbed]

I replaced the fuel pump about a month ago. Took the tank out and cleaned all the lines and cleaned the sending unit. If there's something wrong, it's at the carb I think.

I have dumped gas (little bit) straight into the carb and that won't start it. I definitely think the problem is in the choke, but honestly I am just a shade tree mechanic, I could be way off.
Thanks!

Reuben

[justtime520]

what about fuel filters if you change them its probably the carb

[berencam]

are we getting spark?

[spinning wheels]

Originally Posted by 71wongbed

I replaced the fuel pump about a month ago. Took the tank out and cleaned all the lines and cleaned the sending unit. If there's something wrong, it's at the carb I think.

I have dumped gas (little bit) straight into the carb and that won't start it. I definitely think the problem is in the choke, but honestly I am just a shade tree mechanic, I could be way off.
Thanks!

Reuben

Get a can of starting fluid, you can get it at almost any auto parts store. Safer to spray into the carb than gasoline. It should run for a few seconds, off the starting fluid. If by the third time you do this, fuel isn't pumping up to the carb, I would suspect the fuel pump. I would check the pump. If you are getting fuel up to the carb, make sure you have a spark. If you have a spark, make sure your timing is correct. As a friend of mine, that has an auto electric shop tells me. You need air, fuel and a spark to make the motor go chug chug. If one of the three fails, no chug chug.

[71wongbed]

I'm pretty sure I'm getting spark. New coil, new wires, new plugs. I always get 12v at the coil, but I'm not going to guarantee that I am always getting spark. I guess I don't see how spark would cut in and out with all those parts new. although I might need to check out the distributor. any tips/clues of what to look for in that direction? It was recently timed.

It's got a new in-line fuel filter by the tank, but I was planning on adding another between the pump and carb.

Reuben

[billnorman]

Hi guys. The purpose of the choke is to mechanically richen the mixture to make starting easier. When it goes "on" It closes off carburetor air which changes the air/fuel ratio. If it doesn't go "off" after the engine warms up, there is too much fuel, and the spark plugs can drown, and stop firing ( the motor stops).
After sitting overnight, with the engine not running, turn the ignition to "on", depress the gas pedal fully, and the choke should close.
After sitting with the ignition "on" for 5 minutes, depress the gas pedal fully again. The choke butterfly should fully open.
If not, there is a mechanical or electrical malfunction.
If the choke has failed in the shut position, the best temporary cure is to adjust it fully open until you can find the problem.

[cdowns]

pull a few spark plugs and see what they look like is the best fastest way to tell if you've got a overrich or flood problem

[old Chevy guy]

You say you have new wire coil and plugs.Do you have HEI or points? If it sat and still wouldnt start I think I would confirm spark and look inside my distributer if there was none. Points or condencer,Or modual if it was HEI.The float sticks on my 71 periodicaly and it floods out and stalls at an intersection sometimes but it will always start if I hold it on the floor and crank it.If it wont even try to start or pop or anything with a shot of starting fluid I'm going with electrical.Good luck make sure you let us know what happens.

[69long"n"low]

Check all your plugs i was trying to get an engine running at work one day i checked everything and then on a whim i changed the spugs and it fired right up.

[poker1412]

I had the same experience several years ago with the same carter carb. How long have you had this carb in your truck? Any idea how long it was sitting around in your neighbors garage?

[westofb]

Originally Posted by 71wongbed

This last time it died as i pulled off the freeway, I coasted into a parking lot because it refused to start. I cranked it with no throttle, feathered throttle, FULL throttle and never could get it to start. As I crank it smells kinda gassy near the hood, so my guess is that it is totally flooded. Help!
Reuben

Sounds more like an ignition problem to me. You state that it smells like gas when cranking it but it fails to start. If you suspect it is a flooding problem, it would have to be a major one to kill the truck when letting off the throttle at highway speed. It is possible that could be the case, but just before it flooded out and died, it should be pouring black (fuel) smoke out the exhaust and that much fuel would probably result in some of it making it past the rings into the crank case causing the oil level (now mixed with fuel) to rise and have a distinct gasy smell to it as well. I know you said you have replaced most of your ignition parts, but that is where I would start.

[justtime520]

how is it going truck running yet

[El Jay]

As an old racing friend of mine used to say, "99% of all carburetor problems are electrical in nature."
If it's not firing on ether, I'd guess you're losing spark somewhere.

On a side note, if you have a points distributor, you should only have about 9 volts to the coil, not 12.

I'm with westfb. If it's flooding that bad there should be lack smoke pouring out of that thing.

[71wongbed]

Got it!
I'm pretty sure anyway... My wife swears I say that every couple of days, but sure enough I'm under that hood...
I have ruled out the carb- BIG THANKS to Justin again!
It's the vacuum advance! I pulled the two screws that hold it to the distributor and fiddled with it while the wife cranked it over. There must be a wire loose in there or something because I just disconnected the hose, got it home, and it cut out on me on the way to school this morning. Luckily the wire somehow got back in place while coasting cause it started running again.
Two questions-
1. Could this be happening? Am I right? Could the vacuum advance cause it to not spark at all, or is it a loose/faulty connection?
2. Recommendations for fixing this? Cheap and easy is best. Do I have to replace the whole dist? It's a mallory/unilite something or other. I don't have a timing light, so if there's anyway to get around that, even better.
Thanks again! Everybody is so smart here!
Reuben

[El Jay]

I not real familiar with the Mallory. But if memory serves, 12 volts to the distributor will take the module out. I don't know if they modules) just quit, or deteriorate over time.

You could maybe have the hot wire in the distributor rubbing on something and when the advance plate moves it could be grounding out.
Everything inside the cap should be replaceable, with the distributor in place.

If you don't have a timing light, get a vacuum gauge (they're relatively inexpensive); disconnect and plug the vacuum hose to the distributor, and connect the vacuum gauge to a source BELOW the throttle plates. Adjust the timing for maximum vacuum, the should get the timing well within the ballpark.

Hopefully, somebody that know more about the Mallorys will chime in.

[tim21391]

had a similar problem on mine... took bowl off the front of carb wiggled the float and she ran perfect..

[soba_03]

Ok I'm going to speak out of turn.
He said it was recently timed, he said disconnection of he vacuum advance seems to solve the problem. Could it or would it be possible that his vacuum line for the advance is incorrect? Could he have vacuum line running from Manifold vacuum rather than from Ported source. Wouldn't that cause his under acceleration problem? Just read the thread and something I though about...maybe some one put vacuum hose to a wrong port or maybe vacuum hose is colapsing... couple of thoughts....Good luck....

[71wongbed]

So I tore it apart this morning and the $64,000 prize goes to...

Originally Posted by El Jay

You could maybe have the hot wire in the distributor rubbing on something and when the advance plate moves it could be grounding out.
Everything inside the cap should be replaceable, with the distributor in place.

There was a wire, green (I think the NEG from the coil) that was stripped a tiny bit in one spot right by the advance plate that was in a prime spot for causing trouble. Good call El Jay.
I electrical taped it and so far it's running fine. Do I need to replace the thing (I say "thing" because I don't know what it is called) that the wires connect to? It's a half-circle shaped thing, I'm sure you all know what I'm talking about. Or is the tape enough? seems to be working fine... It's not a show truck or anything...

Big thanks again to everyone! The combined intelligence in this forum is astounding!
Reuben