c notches - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

yellowgmc · 10-23-2002, 10:02 PM

has anyone tried those bolt in c-notches? i've seen a few kits. they seem to entail just cutting a section out over the axle and bolting in the notch with grade 8 hardware. will the be solid enough? i just want to have a solid frame. i'm rather hard on vehicles when i drive. i can't weld worth beans. the rear will have a 6 inch drop so a c-notch is pretty much a given. any suggestions?

riden2low · 10-24-2002, 12:08 AM

I just put a set in my truck. They reconmend welding if you are going to tow and haul any thing heavy. But I don't tow and I have a hard cover so my hauling will be barely nothing, so just to bolt them in is all I am doing. But it did make the ride better as I don't have that bottoming out on the rubber stops. I think for street, I think you will find the bolt up method pretty solid.

crazy longhorn · 10-24-2002, 12:10 AM

If I were doing a notch I would weld it,but thats my preferance. There are a lot of trucks running around with bolt in notches,& thats what these companys designed them to be......I havent tryed 1 , but dont think it would be a problem under normal use. Good luck.....crazy AL

BaggedC10 · 10-24-2002, 02:00 AM

DO NOT weld-in a standard C-notch! Using the supplied hardware is much better for many reasons. The heat created from welding the unit in, will actually weaken the frame. The frame should be allowed to move slightly---If it did not, imagine the stress being placed on the notch and welds!

A bolt-on C-notch will actually make your frame stronger than stock. Check this out for more information!

http://www.FullsizeChevy.com/forum/s...t=Weld+C+notch

low 84 · 10-24-2002, 03:38 PM

this might help you a little, its a right up i did a while ago for my bolt in notch install

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

First thing is to have the flip kit installed and the wheels on the truck and the truck on the ground. this way you can mark the exact center of the axle on the frame so the notch will line up with the frame correctly. The next thing i did was make a templete out of card board the same size as the semi-circle part of the notch that goes through the frame. I used a level and stood it straight up on the axle, with the straight edge of the level lined up with the certer of the axle tube. The level should show you on your frame exactly where the center line of the notch should be so your notch is centerd correctly. scribe this center line on the frame. then take your templete and line the center of it up with the line on your frame and trace it on there. BEFORE YOU CUT: be sure to have the frame supported on both sides of the notch, and only do one side at a time, one side needs to be completely done and bolted in before you cut the other side. okay now you can cut, i used a grinder with 4 1/2 inch cutting wheel

okay now after you have it cut slip the notch on and use clamps to hold it in place

now you can start drilling the holes, you'll need a good hard metal drill bit. each time you drill one hole go ahead and instert that bolt and snug the nut up, this way you know all of your bolt holes will line up. torque them all to spec.

put you bumpstop on and your set.

inside view

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BaggedC10 · 10-24-2002, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by low 84
this might help you a little, its a right up i did a while ago for my bolt in notch install

Who did you do this write up for?

low 84 · 10-25-2002, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by LowC10

Who did you do this write up for?

some punk kid

BaggedC10 · 10-25-2002, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by low 84
some punk kid

LOL!

Did you ever get around to measuring the distance from the ground to the rear frame rails (Where the bumper brackets bolt to)? By looking at that last pic. you have more travel then I do.

yellowgmc · 10-25-2002, 10:57 AM

sweet!!! thanks guy's. as the wife and i have a new little one coming next summer i think my drop kit is out the door. doesn't mean i can't get ready to add the drop kit. c-notch is the first mod i'm gonna do when the snow melts.

low 84 · 10-25-2002, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LowC10

Who did you do this write up for?

oops i forgot all about it.

turmoline · 10-26-2002, 02:08 PM

What I did was just buy a 6" inside diameter cylinder with .250 wall thickness, used a coffee can lid for a template ( it had the perfect 3" radius) and then boxed that area with .250 plate. It was my labor but cost me a total of @ 12.00. Ground everything out smooth and it looks almost factory.

crazy longhorn · 10-26-2002, 06:58 PM

I like that kind of c notch......notched, boxed & welded! the price is right too! I read the threads that link to the other board, & I guess some guys dont like or trust welding? I have cut & spliced frames,& never seen any problems with them. my 4x4 plow truck was cut behind the cab,& had a donor rear half welded & boxed(due to rust issues around the spring hangers).& that old truck is used hard! Im not gonna try to say that the bolt in notches wont work, but if somebody trys to tell me that cutting a hunk of steel out of the frame & bolting another in will make the frame stronger than original........Im not buyin it! that sounds like sales pitch to me. Im from the old school, & have seen many old rods built on a completely boxed ,stock chassis......for the purpose of Strenghtening to handle the power of a late model V8.....man thats a lot of weldin to box (complete) an open channel frame! Just my thoughts......crazy AL

BaggedC10 · 10-27-2002, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by crazy longhorn
I like that kind of c notch......notched, boxed & welded! the price is right too! I read the threads that link to the other board, & I guess some guys dont like or trust welding? I have cut & spliced frames,& never seen any problems with them. my 4x4 plow truck was cut behind the cab,& had a donor rear half welded & boxed(due to rust issues around the spring hangers).& that old truck is used hard! Im not gonna try to say that the bolt in notches wont work, but if somebody trys to tell me that cutting a hunk of steel out of the frame & bolting another in will make the frame stronger than original........Im not buyin it! that sounds like sales pitch to me. Im from the old school, & have seen many old rods built on a completely boxed ,stock chassis......for the purpose of Strenghtening to handle the power of a late model V8.....man thats a lot of weldin to box (complete) an open channel frame! Just my thoughts......crazy AL

It really is true! A friend of a friend had a truck that had a bolt-in C-notch. He was rear ended on the highway at 65mph (He was going considerably slower). The entire frame was bent all the way up until the C-notch. By just looking at a bolt-in notch, the frame looks stronger IMO.

crazy longhorn · 10-27-2002, 07:19 AM

Low c 10, that goes against everything that i have learned about that type of work . ...... as i stated before, I have cut & welded frames,& believe that properly welded is better than bolted. Any modifications on my truck have always been with the welder! I have had a lot of guys state their "distrust" in welding(the Q that Im asked is ,will that hold?) A properly done weld splice is stronger than the original part. Just my thoughts on the subject......crazy AL

low 84 · 10-27-2002, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by crazy longhorn
Low c 10, that goes against everything that i have learned about that type of work . ...... as i stated before, I have cut & welded frames,& believe that properly welded is better than bolted. Any modifications on my truck have always been with the welder! I have had a lot of guys state their "distrust" in welding(the Q that Im asked is ,will that hold?) A properly done weld splice is stronger than the original part. Just my thoughts on the subject......crazy AL

a big reason some people don't like to weld in regular c notches isn't always b/c they are stronger bolted in. its that if you decide to go with a bigger super c type notch later for bagging the truck then you have to go back and cut out your old notch that you could have just bolted in. i don't prefer one type on notch over the other but my bolt in is plenty strong enough. 12, 1/2 inch bolts at 100 ft/lbs per notch. and made of 3/8 inch steel i think. it works for me.

crazy longhorn · 10-27-2002, 10:34 PM

Im with you on that low 84, I beleive , & stated in my first post that both ways will work. all these companies couldnt keep putting out bolt in notches if they were a problem. i dont know how the quote works (a little puter illeterate), but just felt that Low C10 made a pretty big statement when he stated DO NOT WELD a standard notch.......& also the frame is stronger than stock with a bolt in notch. i have absolutly no arguement that a bolt in notch doesnt work........but i beleive that it is stronger if its welded......my only point on the issue. i dont do any haulin in my truck, but when I "can the throttle", it take 2 lane of pavement till about 70 mph to keep it on the road......my guess is that there is enough flexing going on! I have upgraded the box cross sills to 2x3x 1/8 wall tubing & steel floor, & that has help the situation a bunch, but the leafs may have to go in favor of a 2 link. with panhard bar. i guess its about how hard you use the truck, as ridin2 low stated.......it was reccomended to weld the notch if the truck were to be used for towing or heavy hauling(I have also heard that). at any rate, I think we are all on the same page here.......crazy AL

chewed 71'er · 10-27-2002, 11:40 PM

Crazy, have the same problem on my 71, rear coil spring mounts to frame have heavy rust. Don't know if splicing in sections of frame or swapping the whole ass-end would be best. Does anyone make replacement frame brackets and braces? Also, are the replacement bolts as strong as the original rivets? Replacement parts available in chrome/moly? I can weld sheetmetal, but don't have the confidence to weld the frame. Obviously I'm up poo-poo creek on this issue.

low 84 · 10-28-2002, 01:35 AM

nicely put crazy l

crazy longhorn · 10-28-2002, 08:53 AM

chewed 71'er, if your rails are in good shape, & all you need to replace are brackets or crossmembers I would use grade 8 hardware. i dont think you can get the brackets new, but may find a good set in the bone yard. i have replaced crossmembers& relocated spring hangers useing 7/16 grade 8 bolts with pinchloc nuts, & have not seen any problems ......you dont want lock washers, they tend to break /fall out & leave you with loose pcs. good luck.......crazy AL

love it loud · 04-12-2003, 08:57 PM

when replacing rivets with grade 8 hardware in crossmembers/hangers, etc, should normal washers be used under the nut and bolt head on each side of the frame as well?

BaggedC10 · 04-12-2003, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by love it loud
when replacing rivets with grade 8 hardware in crossmembers/hangers, etc, should normal washers be used under the nut and bolt head on each side of the frame as well?

On my DJM hangers, I upgraded the size by one and installed grade-8 hardware---Installed washers on both sides. The first time w/o washers behind the bolt head, the heads wanted to go through a bit.

BTW, I take back my previous reply about not welding in a notch. Do not bolt and weld a notch in---Do one or the other.

10-23-2002, 10:02 PM	#1
yellowgmc Getting cabin fever?!?!?! Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: chisholm, mn Posts: 1,679	c notches has anyone tried those bolt in c-notches? i've seen a few kits. they seem to entail just cutting a section out over the axle and bolting in the notch with grade 8 hardware. will the be solid enough? i just want to have a solid frame. i'm rather hard on vehicles when i drive. i can't weld worth beans. the rear will have a 6 inch drop so a c-notch is pretty much a given. any suggestions? __________________ Member of the Discs Up Front Club 1972 GMC 1500 1994 F-150 XL 4x4 Tact is for people not whitty enough to be sarcastic

10-24-2002, 02:00 AM	#4
BaggedC10 Under construction! Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: NorCal Posts: 1,065	DO NOT weld-in a standard C-notch! Using the supplied hardware is much better for many reasons. The heat created from welding the unit in, will actually weaken the frame. The frame should be allowed to move slightly---If it did not, imagine the stress being placed on the notch and welds! A bolt-on C-notch will actually make your frame stronger than stock. Check this out for more information! http://www.FullsizeChevy.com/forum/s...t=Weld+C+notch __________________ 2001 Silverado bagged on 22's. Sold

10-24-2002, 03:38 PM	#5
low 84 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 2,144	this might help you a little, its a right up i did a while ago for my bolt in notch install ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- First thing is to have the flip kit installed and the wheels on the truck and the truck on the ground. this way you can mark the exact center of the axle on the frame so the notch will line up with the frame correctly. The next thing i did was make a templete out of card board the same size as the semi-circle part of the notch that goes through the frame. I used a level and stood it straight up on the axle, with the straight edge of the level lined up with the certer of the axle tube. The level should show you on your frame exactly where the center line of the notch should be so your notch is centerd correctly. scribe this center line on the frame. then take your templete and line the center of it up with the line on your frame and trace it on there. BEFORE YOU CUT: be sure to have the frame supported on both sides of the notch, and only do one side at a time, one side needs to be completely done and bolted in before you cut the other side. okay now you can cut, i used a grinder with 4 1/2 inch cutting wheel okay now after you have it cut slip the notch on and use clamps to hold it in place now you can start drilling the holes, you'll need a good hard metal drill bit. each time you drill one hole go ahead and instert that bolt and snug the nut up, this way you know all of your bolt holes will line up. torque them all to spec. put you bumpstop on and your set. inside view ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- __________________ '51 F100, backhalf with a narrowed 9 and coil overs, 18.5" mickeys, monte front clip, +400" sbc in the works '05 1500 Crew Cab RIP '84 swb 5/7 drop, solid cammed 408 w/ fully ported dart heads, th350 w/ 10 inch hughes, 12 bolt w/ 3.73 richmonds and a locker '80 swb 4x4 in progress: 7" lift, 350 th350/np205, d44 and 1.5" ORD tie rod, 14BFF w/discs , armored diff covers, 40" MTR's

10-25-2002, 10:57 AM	#9
yellowgmc Getting cabin fever?!?!?! Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: chisholm, mn Posts: 1,679	sweet!!! thanks guy's. as the wife and i have a new little one coming next summer i think my drop kit is out the door. doesn't mean i can't get ready to add the drop kit. c-notch is the first mod i'm gonna do when the snow melts. __________________ Member of the Discs Up Front Club 1972 GMC 1500 1994 F-150 XL 4x4 Tact is for people not whitty enough to be sarcastic

10-28-2002, 01:35 AM	#18
low 84 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 2,144	nicely put crazy l __________________ '51 F100, backhalf with a narrowed 9 and coil overs, 18.5" mickeys, monte front clip, +400" sbc in the works '05 1500 Crew Cab RIP '84 swb 5/7 drop, solid cammed 408 w/ fully ported dart heads, th350 w/ 10 inch hughes, 12 bolt w/ 3.73 richmonds and a locker '80 swb 4x4 in progress: 7" lift, 350 th350/np205, d44 and 1.5" ORD tie rod, 14BFF w/discs , armored diff covers, 40" MTR's

10-24-2002, 12:08 AM	#2
riden2low Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Portland OR. Posts: 86	I just put a set in my truck. They reconmend welding if you are going to tow and haul any thing heavy. But I don't tow and I have a hard cover so my hauling will be barely nothing, so just to bolt them in is all I am doing. But it did make the ride better as I don't have that bottoming out on the rubber stops. I think for street, I think you will find the bolt up method pretty solid.

10-24-2002, 12:10 AM	#3
crazy longhorn Fabricate till you "puke" Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ill Posts: 9,403	If I were doing a notch I would weld it,but thats my preferance. There are a lot of trucks running around with bolt in notches,& thats what these companys designed them to be......I havent tryed 1 , but dont think it would be a problem under normal use. Good luck.....crazy AL

10-26-2002, 02:08 PM	#11
turmoline Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: santa cruz, Calif. U.S. Posts: 166	What I did was just buy a 6" inside diameter cylinder with .250 wall thickness, used a coffee can lid for a template ( it had the perfect 3" radius) and then boxed that area with .250 plate. It was my labor but cost me a total of @ 12.00. Ground everything out smooth and it looks almost factory.

10-26-2002, 06:58 PM	#12
crazy longhorn Fabricate till you "puke" Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ill Posts: 9,403	I like that kind of c notch......notched, boxed & welded! the price is right too! I read the threads that link to the other board, & I guess some guys dont like or trust welding? I have cut & spliced frames,& never seen any problems with them. my 4x4 plow truck was cut behind the cab,& had a donor rear half welded & boxed(due to rust issues around the spring hangers).& that old truck is used hard! Im not gonna try to say that the bolt in notches wont work, but if somebody trys to tell me that cutting a hunk of steel out of the frame & bolting another in will make the frame stronger than original........Im not buyin it! that sounds like sales pitch to me. Im from the old school, & have seen many old rods built on a completely boxed ,stock chassis......for the purpose of Strenghtening to handle the power of a late model V8.....man thats a lot of weldin to box (complete) an open channel frame! Just my thoughts......crazy AL

10-27-2002, 07:19 AM	#14
crazy longhorn Fabricate till you "puke" Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ill Posts: 9,403	Low c 10, that goes against everything that i have learned about that type of work . ...... as i stated before, I have cut & welded frames,& believe that properly welded is better than bolted. Any modifications on my truck have always been with the welder! I have had a lot of guys state their "distrust" in welding(the Q that Im asked is ,will that hold?) A properly done weld splice is stronger than the original part. Just my thoughts on the subject......crazy AL

10-27-2002, 10:34 PM	#16
crazy longhorn Fabricate till you "puke" Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ill Posts: 9,403	Im with you on that low 84, I beleive , & stated in my first post that both ways will work. all these companies couldnt keep putting out bolt in notches if they were a problem. i dont know how the quote works (a little puter illeterate), but just felt that Low C10 made a pretty big statement when he stated DO NOT WELD a standard notch.......& also the frame is stronger than stock with a bolt in notch. i have absolutly no arguement that a bolt in notch doesnt work........but i beleive that it is stronger if its welded......my only point on the issue. i dont do any haulin in my truck, but when I "can the throttle", it take 2 lane of pavement till about 70 mph to keep it on the road......my guess is that there is enough flexing going on! I have upgraded the box cross sills to 2x3x 1/8 wall tubing & steel floor, & that has help the situation a bunch, but the leafs may have to go in favor of a 2 link. with panhard bar. i guess its about how hard you use the truck, as ridin2 low stated.......it was reccomended to weld the notch if the truck were to be used for towing or heavy hauling(I have also heard that). at any rate, I think we are all on the same page here.......crazy AL

10-27-2002, 11:40 PM	#17
chewed 71'er Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: KC, NW Missouri Posts: 144	Crazy, have the same problem on my 71, rear coil spring mounts to frame have heavy rust. Don't know if splicing in sections of frame or swapping the whole ass-end would be best. Does anyone make replacement frame brackets and braces? Also, are the replacement bolts as strong as the original rivets? Replacement parts available in chrome/moly? I can weld sheetmetal, but don't have the confidence to weld the frame. Obviously I'm up poo-poo creek on this issue.

10-28-2002, 08:53 AM	#19
crazy longhorn Fabricate till you "puke" Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ill Posts: 9,403	chewed 71'er, if your rails are in good shape, & all you need to replace are brackets or crossmembers I would use grade 8 hardware. i dont think you can get the brackets new, but may find a good set in the bone yard. i have replaced crossmembers& relocated spring hangers useing 7/16 grade 8 bolts with pinchloc nuts, & have not seen any problems ......you dont want lock washers, they tend to break /fall out & leave you with loose pcs. good luck.......crazy AL

04-12-2003, 08:57 PM	#20
love it loud Calibration Engineer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Windsor, Ontario, Canada Posts: 361	when replacing rivets with grade 8 hardware in crossmembers/hangers, etc, should normal washers be used under the nut and bolt head on each side of the frame as well? __________________ CANADIAN CONNECTION



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