I could be REALLY screwed...

[Project1970]

The story:
My parents had the title to my truck split - both on it with an 'or' between as far as I know. They divorced. Truck to be given to me to take it out of the divorce.

Fast forward to today. Truck is now no longer heap in side yard but decent driving machine. I come to find out that the title will only be mine if I play by my mom's rules - because somewhere along the line, she beat us (my dad and I) to the punch and put the title in just her name. And my mom's rules involve me going to a religion I really don't want to go to...and I'm nearly 19, certainly old enough to make decisions of that sort on my own.

Simply put...I stand a very good chance of losing my truck and ending up with $3200 to buy my next project / college transportation because of my choice in religion. So if anyone sees a lowered blue 1970 GMC for sale around Phoenix... *sniff*

(Especially if it's advertised as non-running...the way I see it, if she wants it back, she can have it, I just take my parts...which leads me to a question, since she never paid for a large portion of the parts on the vehicle, am I legally entitled to remove them? In which case, she'd be getting a pickup with no carb, transmission, most of the front suspension and some of the rear suspension...)

[Southpa]

I'm sorry to see that your own mother will go to such lengths to use a truck as leverage to control your life. If you have receipts for all you put into the truck, that YOU paid for, then by all means, take it back. If the old parts are still around just toss them into the back. I'm sure you would have done the next owner a good turn by taking out the junk parts anyway.

I knew a fisherman who was fishing and living on a leased boat. He had an agreement with the owner that he would fix it up and give the owner a % of the money from catching fish for a 5 year period. The guy installed all new rigging, electronics (that includes Loran, sonar, GPS, etc.) and a number of other essential items. A couple years later the owner decides he wants to take the boat out fishing for himself and leave my friend standing on the dock. My friend contacted the local police and had them witness him remove all of the equipment etc. he installed as per the receipts he retained from said equipment. Of course the owner comes down to the dock and finds a stripped boat, lol. But its perfectly legal. Serial numbers for the carb, tranny etc. should be on the receipts if they were new.

If you did NOT keep the receipts, then you have no legal leg to stand on. It all depends on whether or not you can prove that those parts are legally yours. Otherwise, wash your hands of the whole affair and start fresh. Tell your mother she can keep the truck AND her religion.

[bigvinnie]

sounds like a hard pill to swallow, but no truck is worth what you're talking about... you're right, you're old enough to make your own decisions and this is a great time to do exactly that...

lots of other trucks out there... I'd disconnect from this mess and be damn glad about it... good luck.

[68 Suburban]

Im sorry to say it, but it sounds like you Mom has some serious issues. Not only has she lost her husband, she is risking losing a son over a truck? If you have to, cut your losses and move on.

Was the truck mentioned in the divorce decree?

[JimKshortstep4x4]

That is a really sad story. I hope that you end up with the truck
because you have put a lot of time into it. Has your dad talked to his attorney about this?

Usually it is illegal for either party to "hide" assets when divorces divide up communal property. It sounds like you had a verbal agreement and then your mom put on additional requirements. I suspect that someday, she will regret her actions but you probably don't want to wait until then. Have you discussed this with an attorney? Usually the first consutation is free, so you may want to consider visiting one to see where you stand legally.

Good luck!

Jim

[umrebelsfan]

68 Suburban is right on point with asking about the decree. Go to the court house and get a copy . See if it says you get the truck. If so, ask your mother to sign the title over, its yours per the divorce decree. If she refuses, you can file a petition in the original divorce asking that she be forced to comply with the court's order.

If it isn't in the divorce decree, I don't know if I buy the advice you can take your stuff off. Problem is you probably don't have her stuff to put back on. As most folks know, there are all sorts of legal problems with taking fixtures and improvements off of real estate. A lot of times similar rules apply to personal property such as a truck.

Finally tell her that you would love to bury the hatchet and you don't mind going to church with her on Wednesday or Sunday night, but you have your own church home. Invite her to your church. If she refuses, go to her pastor. I am sure he will not appreciate her bribeing you to attend her church and will have a talk with her. On second thought I might move this last piece of advice to the top of the order or things you should do.

Once, again I know I'll sound like a broken record but don't escalate things or take the law into your own hands. You have an opportunity to get back in your mother's good graces (your relationship with her and your relationship with your dad can and should be two separate things) and not lose your truck but only if you don't sink to her level of "you can only have it if you play by my rules."

Finally, whats the deal with your ending up with $3200? Am I missing something there? Seems to me if she is willing to sell a work in progress and give you $3200 of the proceeds rather thank keep all of it there may be another issue.

Brad

[Maximum Overdrive]

Well it can depend greatly on the details. If your dads name was ever on the title and you mom got it changed just into her name it may be a crime. In my state if there is two names on the title then both must sign it to get a name change. There can be a number of possible ways to keep your mother from taking the truck but it does depend what you state says about this type of situtation. If you know a mechanic and you can get him to do you a favor have them put a lein against the truck for storage. You can try this yourself but Im not sure what your laws are on this stuff. She is liable for storage as she has left the truck with you and your dad and you should be able to charge accordingly.

[Slammed67]

Here's an idea. Take ALL the parts off that you have receipts for (and a few you don't , then have her put it up for sale. Have a buddy buy the truck for cheap (since it's missing so many parts) and then buy it from him. THEN put all the parts back on, drive it over to her house and do a SMOKEY burnout in her driveway. Yeah, you'll be spending a few extra bucks for somehting that you already own, but hey, it'd be worth it!

[Mike C]

I couldn't imagine being so manipulative... As far as the legality of switching the title, all was well if it was blank OR blank. If it was blank AND blank, then BOTH people had to sign paperwork transfering ownership. Good luck keeping your truck AND your mother.

[Yukon Jack]

That is really sad to hear. Talking to her pastor might well be a very good idea.

I hope it works out for you.

[mikep]

Your'e 19. Join the Army.

Thats my patent answer for every 19 year old. Sorry.

Seriously though. Dont let a truck come between family. She sounds like she's going through her midlife crisis. Leave her alone for 5 or 6 years and she'll pull her head out of her ass ... or she wont. You'll have plenty of trucks, girlfriends, wives , kids , houses , bills etc. in your life but you'll only have one mother. sounds like she cant let go. Give her time. She will eventually. Don't play her games any more though. Your'e a man. Its time to get out on your own.

[ebfabman]

Very good advice from Mikep;


You'll have plenty of trucks, girlfriends, wives , kids , houses , bills etc. in your life but you'll only have one mother. sounds ike she cant let go. Give her time. she will. Don't play her games any more though. Your a man. Its time to get out on your own.

[68 Suburban]

If your dads name was ever on the title and you mom got it changed just into her name it may be a crime.

I dont think Arizona does it this way any more, but in the past a title would have "and/or" on a two name title. Thus only one person would have to sign.

[fine69]

Tell her to either give you the title or your gonna cut the truck up and it wont be worth damn dime. And that you will be done with her.
Ask her if GOD would approve of what she is trying to do?
Tell her, I(as in you)own the truck, you know it, i know it. And that her lame attemt to control you aint gonna work. Either way she loses.
Ask her how she would like the truck parts thrown in her yard.

[Bamm]

I somewhat agree with fine69. Have an adult conversation about the truck and ask her if her religion would allow for one person to completely manipulate another to get them into it. Religion, when you are an adult, is something that you have to want to be involved with, and genuinely have faith in. If you make the decision that this is a religion that you don't want to be in or that you don't share her sense of faith, then she has to realize that this is your decision, as an adult you are entitled to make your own. If she can't accept that, or won't accept that she has some issues to deal with...............JB

[Project1970]

Thanks for the advice, guys...

Regarding the title, I'm pretty sure it was an "or" between them. Question, would a Carfax report show title changes? I want to be sure before I go making a fool of myself...

I do need to go through the divorce papers and look and see if the truck was anywhere in there. I know they had a verbal agreement but I don't know if it was ever put into writing.

I know about not taking the law into my own hands. She's threatened to call it in stolen on me before and get the cops on me / my dad. I think she's so hellbent on screwing my dad over / making him look bad that she's completely overlooked the fact that she's screwing me over at the same time. That's why I want to be very, very, very sure of it before I remove anything from it.

The $3200 isn't what she'd give me...it's the money I have saved plus the money my dad was going to give me to put a 700R4 into it. (Which reminds me, I need to move most of that ASAP - $2200 of it is in an account cosigned by her when I was 14 or so. I wish I had moved it long ago because now I bet she'll be suspicious.)

mikep...I wouldn't terribly mind that except I'm horribly out of shape (one of my good friends got badly injured in basic - tore some ligaments and whatnot - and he's in way better shape than I am) and the main reason I don't want anything to do with her religion (she's Mormon, along with the rest of my family, by the way...but my dad has already said he's behind me all the way no matter what) is because they want me to basically throw away $40k in scholarships to spend 2 years and $8k on a mission for a church I don't really believe in.

Anyone know if AZ has re-titling laws? Or is a title a title no matter how old? Because that truck really hasn't changed hands in 25 years or so...

And I actually still do have most of the parts, sans the 3-speed stick column, to return it to a mostly unrestored state. The bulk of the investments would be in the transmission ($1500 parts and labor), the suspension ($1000 parts only), and the carb (put a new Edelbrock on it). I can't exactly return the paint to original state.

Slammed67...my girlfriend has actually offered to do that. I'm trying to keep her from doing it because she really doesn't have the money. And if I do get it out of her hands that way...I will do the burnout, hehe...and I'll probably have my friend / next-door neighbor there cheering me on, lol. (He's got a '69 Chevy. He's also the only person I know who's killed a TH400 with a mild smallblock, lol. Big burnout, of course. )

[Patrick Sullivan]

What a load of crap. I would definately be seeing an attorney with a copy of the divorce papers as soon as I could.

I know how divorces can be.. I don't know how long it's been since my parents divorced, but it's only getting worse. It's dumbfounding to me how the parents are so intent on getting at one another that they end up crushing their kids in the middle. I swear, my Dad is about to put my Mom, sister and I in the poor house because he doesn't like her. And I love the way they use YOU to get back at one another, and spy on one another, even oh-so-subtely. "How was your stay?".. "How is he doing?" "What is he doing?" "What was his house like?" "Who is that girl he is living with?".. it's ****ing bull****. Not to mention my Dad uses me to do all his little errands and dirty work around here. Some days I am so close to throwing my stuff in the '72 and just leaving it all behind. I really hope that every parent that gets divorced and puts their kids through this kind of **** burns in hell. ****ing roasts.

****, I've got to go cool down before I kill somebody. Sorry for going off like that.. this stuff just really pisses me off, especially since I'm right in the middle of it. I hope your truck (and you) come out OK.

[Desert Rat]

The way the Rat would handle a situation like this be it mother a ex or whatever they wouldnt want it when i was done.If a shorty id pull box,motor/trans,any goodies,new parts,leave her with a carcass,it sucks to come down to that especially with your own mother but sometimes sht goes down like that,strip it drop it off report it stolen,or abandoned it since its in her name,so she can pay tow bill and fines.ask her if she really wants to lose a son over a stupid truck(moms might understand that)just a truck to them but a love and obsession for some.sorry to hear your prediciment,bring it to Casa Grande,we can make it disapear if need be.

[ckhd]

In AZ, if there is an OR, then either can do whatever they want with the title. Your mom legally changed the title, even though she did it unethically.

Send her a bill itemizing all the parts you installed (make sure you have reciepts), and get ahold of a flat-rate manual and bill all the flat-rate time at, oh, $30 an hour or so. When she refuses to pay, send it to collections.

If your mom does pull bull**** and decides to sell, let me know. I'll try to help you get it back. I'm close enough to help, but far enough away that I don't think she'd think I was one of your freinds trying to help you get it back!

[Denny]

Hi Project1970

My heart goes out to you. My ex-wife of 26 years went bananas with religion also which pretty well costed us a divorce.
She does the same type stuff to my 18 year old son and my 25 year old son hardly ever sees her (which I am not happy about).
Your mother loves you but she is messed up with the divorce and the religion thing, she will get better in time. She may be a little jeolous if you and your dad work on it together. The church thing may be her way of doing something together with you. Divorces are horrible for the kids. Keep your head up things will get better.
My suggestion is talk to your mom in a nice way (tell her you love her) and say that both her and your dad had agreed that truck was to be yours. Tell her that the divorce was bad enough on you and to take the one thing you own that makes you happy and keeps you busy is hurting you more. Its alot better that you are working on a truck then out getting in trouble with drugs and things like that.
You are now 19 years old and the title can be in your name now.
If she wants to be a good Christian she should not go back on her word that the truck is yours.

[slam33]

If it was me, I would strip off all the good parts I had put on the truck, motor, trans, interior, electrical, everything. Make it a roller and then ask her to please come over and get her truck out of my driveway.

[72BACK2NU]

We'll pray for you, your mom and your truck.

[murph396]

all i can is.....bummer! that sucks!! i know how ya feel, well sorta. i am only 20 and my parents are going through divorce. i too could have lost my truck because their names are actually on the title. luckily everything worked out smoothly (for a divorce anyway) and i got to keep my truck. its been several years and the divorce is almost finalized. there is lots of good advice on hear. my advice is don't make any spur of the moment decisions that you will regret later, such as lose a family member. hope everything works out alright. and by the way that is a sweet truck!

[Project1970]

Sullivan...believe me, there have been sooooo many days I can't wait to just load it all up and head to UofA. They're horrible, horrible, horrible things in most cases...I say most because I do have a friend whose parents divorced but actually eat dinner together once in a while still. (My guess is they got married, had kids, and then realized just how insanely opposite the two of them were, lol.)

Desert Rat...the only problem with that is five bucks says someone in her family spots it on my way in. Both of my parents are from around there and most of my mom's family is still nearby.

Again...thanks for the help...I'm still figuring out my exact plan of action, and besides, until I get that $2200 out of the cosigned account, I'm not going to try anything...because if she wanted to, she could legally steal both my truck and my savings, and that $3200 is going towards a second-generation Camaro if I lose the truck.

[Brad]

Project1970, I feel your pain. I bought my Camaro back in 88 (18, and my very first car!). A couple years later and a few payments to go (to my father) and he threatens to sell it. I still remember exactly where we were and what time of day it was. That hurt soooooo much for him to say that. It's one of the reasons I don't talk to him to this day.
I work at a boys home for juvenile delinquent boys. Although, they have committed crimes to be there, many of them have parents who are f**ing stupid people who taught them to be like they are. I was just talking to one boy yesterday who's dad just got out of prison recently and who's mother drinks like a fish--nice huh?. Anyway, my point is that sometimes parents act like the children that they're supposed to be raising. Then the children have to act like adults. From the little that I know, it sounds like your mother is making some very poor decisions that could affect her future relationship with her son. My mother also did this and without going into details, it affected our relationship for years! She realized what she had done and sought counseling. I don't know the details of how your familial relationships work, it sounds like you have a good solid head on your shoulders, making wise decisions and are looking forward to going to college. I can't write a whole essay on this short post, but I feel your pain and wish I could help you out on this. Yukonjack, Mikep, and Efabman have some good advice, use this along with your good sense and make good decisions. Good luck bud! Feel free to email me if you'd like. I've been in similar shoes. Let us know...