Dumb Question for you all..... - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

**68Custom** · 11-12-2003, 12:15 AM

Well, ive been noticing some blue smoke blow out the pipes when i get going again from a stop sign or stoplight or whatever.... and this evening, at work, while letting it warm up just on idle, i noticed it even more due to the overhead parking lot lights. My setup is a Crate 350 w/TH 400 with nearing 20k on the engine (no special bells or whistles). I'm curious to know if a change of oil has done this.... i USED to run Valvoline 10-30 and a Wix oil filter... I NOW use Valvoline Durablend (its the 1/2 and 1/2 stuff) 10-30 w/Wix filter. Could my engine just not like this kind of oil??!?! Or have I gone and worn seals out most likely and possibly rings too? My compression still seems to be good, although i haven't check since i put the engine in..... I'm just curious as to why this is happening. One too many nights cruising the strip maybe. Any replies are accepted! Thanks!

Aaron

Southpa · 11-12-2003, 12:28 AM

Very likely oil dripping into cylinder(s) from valve area because of worn valve seals. I found mine needed replacing after only about 5 yrs.

**68Custom** · 11-12-2003, 12:56 AM

I was afraid of this.... so i guess i should call around and see what it takes to get these seals taken care of. Oh well, i guess ill learn take it easy on the engine, don't want to tire it out too quickly but then if its smoking i guess thats a sign i am.

Aaron

dinnut · 11-12-2003, 01:24 AM

isnt blue smoke gas oh no its old white is gas? hows the old system? black=? blue=? white=?

jhow66 · 11-12-2003, 01:46 AM

Should not be doing this after only 20k on a new crate motor. Are you having to add oil? Having to add water? Does it smoke when you start it up when it is cold? Does it smoke when you let off the gas when running highway speed? Are you fouling plugs ? Answer to these questions will give a good idea of what is wrong.

krue · 11-12-2003, 01:49 AM

Valve seals leaking are no real big deal. I know several people who just run 'em.

Longhorn Man · 11-12-2003, 01:49 AM

how long has it taken to get these 20,000 miles on there?

**68Custom** · 11-12-2003, 01:58 AM

Lets see if i can answer everyones question on here.... Longhorn Man: the engine was installed March 2002. Jhow66: yeah i hafta add oil, usually city driving causes this... doesn't seem to need any oil after highway trips. Smoke is a definite blue. Plugs i haven't checked lately as i just put them in on last oil change back in september. The plugs before that looked very clean so i don't know if this has just happened recently or what. Doesn't smoke when i let off at highway speeds that im know of and it does smoke just a bit on a cold start up. Hope this helps you guys out! I appreciate all the replies!

Aaron

jhow66 · 11-12-2003, 02:10 AM

Did you buy engine new? I have bought and installed quite a few of these 350 crate motors ( 330Hp, ZZ4's and Goodwrench) and have not run across your problem that early.If your plugs are burning clean does not sound like seal problem . Next time you are on the highway get up to a good speed and let off the gas and coast down and then step on the gas again . Watch mirror and see if it puffs smoke when you hit the gas again. If it does it is more then likely a seal problem. Did it ever over heat on you?

**68Custom** · 11-12-2003, 02:33 AM

Yeah i purchased the engine new from Scoggin Dickey down in Texas.... ill check the plugs tommorow to see what they are looking like. I'm taking the truck out to my uncles in the country so on the highway ill give her try as far as watching for the puff of smoke. BTW mine is the Goodwrench. As far as OVER heating... i don't have a shroud guard on my radiator for good circulation, and i know in the summer time she runs a bit on the warm side when im sitting idle, like at a drive-thru. You know.... im going to be up for awhile anyway, the engine is cool, i think im going to go ahead and check those plugs. I'll keep you posted on my findings.

Aaron

jorgensensc · 11-12-2003, 02:53 AM

Hey 68Custom,
I am not trying to start anything, but I've heard that the Targetmaster crate engines from GM are actually returned warranty engines. They (GM) fix the problem, then resell them as crate engines. Please don't flame me if anyone knows different. I actually have a crate engine in my truck and it works fine. Just shedding some small pinhole of light.
Shawn

*redbowtie* · 11-12-2003, 02:58 AM

This might help pinpoint your problem...Smoke on
acceleration is rings and while backing off is valve guides....

**68Custom** · 11-12-2003, 02:59 AM

Shawn, no, you aren't starting anything.... according to the description from Scoggin Dickey this things the real thing... from what ive heard they are mass produced in Mexico and shipped up here by bulk. Anyway, ive check the plugs and things look as good as they should, no oil on them so now im really curious, how about you guys???

Aaron

Mudder · 11-12-2003, 05:30 AM

OK.........here's what happened to mine this past summer. Drove 400 miles to Lincoln Nebraska back in August. Just out of the blue I was 3 qts low and had a blue film on my back glass. No leaking oil anywhere. Did a compression check....... All good. One plug had some crud built up on it (4).....So..... I pulled the intake. I have vortec heads and intake. The gaskets that Scoggin Dickey had sold me with these heads had come apart and had slid so much it was sucking oil. (Both sides). These gaskets they sent me actually looked like they had glued 2 gaskets together and they just slid apart. New felpros and no more problems.

tom hand · 11-12-2003, 12:01 PM

Unless your valve guides are completely shot...which they shouldn't be at 20k, valve seals will only cause smoke for a few seconds at start-up. If you are running aftermarket valve covers without baffles the PVC valve can drink a lot of oil. The intake gasket like mudder said, and you might won't to pull the valve covers and make sure the drain back holes in the head are not restricted.

tommie · 11-12-2003, 12:40 PM

if it just smokes on start up, the 1st thing i would look at would be the valve seals.

if you have bad valve seals, the engine will only burn a small amount of oil on start up and will not show any signs on the spark plugs. If you replace the valve seals, use a postive locking type valve seal on all valves, not the "o" ring type that many stores sell you.

Lobo'74 · 11-12-2003, 03:58 PM

I have a rebuilt 4 bolt main 350 about a year old installed by PO. I use about a quart of oil a month. Thats about a quart every 4 tanks of gas. In town for virtually all my driving. NO SMOKING. None at all. Aftermarket high performance heads and aftermarket polished aluminum valve covers.

Its bored .030 over, the crank is ground .010 under.

Is it sucking oil out the PCV valve? Don't know where its going.

It did have the small 6 cyl radiator on it when I got it. Ran hot. 190 on the highway, 210 in town, 230 in town at a long idle. It hit 250 or better on me one time when the fan belt broke and I had to pull off on a side road to put the new one on. Was on the road and back to 190 within 10 minutes.

I just put a new, big 4 core radiator in it and its 190 or less. Could the previous year that the PO drove it hot have caused a problem that results in higher oil consumption?

Following this thread helps.

**68Custom** · 11-12-2003, 09:03 PM

The valve seals is a minor thing that is concerning me at this point.... since the spark plugs appear to be just fine, im really wondering if anything has changed as far as compression in the cylinders. Have i worn down the rings? I would like to think not! What else could be causing this problem? Head gaskets? Intake gaskets? Still wondering......

Aaron

walker · 11-12-2003, 11:25 PM

Just to let you know those engines have a gm 3 years 50k warranty.
Also, the other oddball problems that can cause smoking are; burning tranny oil from a bad modulator, burning brake fluid because your vac booster is full 'o fluid from a bad master cylinder. Those are the oddballs and I have never experiencede them firsthand, just read them here of all places.
Back to engine problems, a vaccum guage can tell you alot about the shape of your guides, valves, rings etc... It is an often overlooked diagnostic tool. More than likley it is the valve stem seals. You can buy a spring puller that works with the heads on, I ahve one from MAC that has come in handy, and replace them yourself in an afternoon.
Good luck, Andy

jhow66 · 11-12-2003, 11:26 PM

What kind of intake do you have ? Did it start this all at once? Do valve covers have baffles where the PCV goes? (Getting nosy ain't we).

**68Custom** · 11-13-2003, 03:06 PM

Yeah, good thing mine is still under warrenty! Although im not sure how to go about this warrenty thing should it boil down to that. The intake i have on the engine now came off a SBC 400. My uncle had it in his 56 F*rd and decided to go with a 3 duece setup instead. So i purchased the 4 barrel Rochester and intake off him for 75 dollars. The intake before that was a 2 barrell which was junk and it wasn't doing this that far back anyway.... somewhere within the past 4 months i would say this has started in. The valve covers do have baffles on them. Don't mind the nosy part, just so long as we narrow down the burning issue.

Aaron

biglou55 · 11-13-2003, 03:29 PM

I rebuilt the 350 in my 86 put on edlebrock performer intake it started smoking on left bank after only 5k then the right bank shortly there after. the problem was alum intake lossened up and warped . you might want to check it.out it was sprayingl from the galley into the heads. my 02.

Mudder · 11-13-2003, 03:33 PM

What kind of intake gaskets did ya use? I'd do a compression test then if that don't tell ya anything, I would pull the intake off. Make sure your pvc hasnt been sucking oil. Take a qtip and see if there is any oil in the hose.

jhow66 · 11-13-2003, 03:34 PM

Did you use any RVT on intake gasket other then water ports? If you used it around the intake ports this is probley where it is sucking oil in from valley. Gas and RVT don't mix.

**68Custom** · 11-14-2003, 02:45 PM

well, i shall check the pcv hose today when i get back from school but im thinkin i won't find anything there. as far as the intake, my dad and i installed it using fel-pro gaskets. We DID use RTV sealant on it. I'm making a journey up to Lincoln Nebraska late in the afternoon today so i guess i can see how much its using oil on the highway too. Won't be able to mess with intake for awhile. Seriously going to get this wood bed project finished FIRST! More later on! And GO HUSKERS!!!!

Aaron

11-12-2003, 12:15 AM	#1
68Custom Hammer On! Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Olathe, KS Posts: 473	Dumb Question for you all..... Well, ive been noticing some blue smoke blow out the pipes when i get going again from a stop sign or stoplight or whatever.... and this evening, at work, while letting it warm up just on idle, i noticed it even more due to the overhead parking lot lights. My setup is a Crate 350 w/TH 400 with nearing 20k on the engine (no special bells or whistles). I'm curious to know if a change of oil has done this.... i USED to run Valvoline 10-30 and a Wix oil filter... I NOW use Valvoline Durablend (its the 1/2 and 1/2 stuff) 10-30 w/Wix filter. Could my engine just not like this kind of oil??!?! Or have I gone and worn seals out most likely and possibly rings too? My compression still seems to be good, although i haven't check since i put the engine in..... I'm just curious as to why this is happening. One too many nights cruising the strip maybe. Any replies are accepted! Thanks! Aaron __________________ 1968 C20 Inline 6 250 SM465 4 speed 1968 K10 Inline 6 250 SM465 4 speed

11-12-2003, 12:28 AM	#2
Southpa Registered User Join Date: May 2000 Location: Victoria, BC, Canada Posts: 2,410	Very likely oil dripping into cylinder(s) from valve area because of worn valve seals. I found mine needed replacing after only about 5 yrs. __________________ 1970 GMC 1500 Custom Original 350/TH350 Victoria, BC, Canada You can wish in one hand and crap in the other. See which one gets filled first.

11-12-2003, 12:56 AM	#3
68Custom Hammer On! Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Olathe, KS Posts: 473	I was afraid of this.... so i guess i should call around and see what it takes to get these seals taken care of. Oh well, i guess ill learn take it easy on the engine, don't want to tire it out too quickly but then if its smoking i guess thats a sign i am. Aaron __________________ 1968 C20 Inline 6 250 SM465 4 speed 1968 K10 Inline 6 250 SM465 4 speed

11-12-2003, 01:24 AM	#4
dinnut Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: missouri city, tx Posts: 4,486	isnt blue smoke gas oh no its old white is gas? hows the old system? black=? blue=? white=? __________________ 70 longbed 496/th400/Ford 9"

11-12-2003, 01:46 AM	#5
jhow66 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Knoxville Tenn. Posts: 3,058	Should not be doing this after only 20k on a new crate motor. Are you having to add oil? Having to add water? Does it smoke when you start it up when it is cold? Does it smoke when you let off the gas when running highway speed? Are you fouling plugs ? Answer to these questions will give a good idea of what is wrong. __________________ 56 Chevy Bel-Air 2dr. HT (purchased new) 71 Chevy Cheyenne SWB PU (502HO) 65 GMC short bed step--work in progress and my gofer

11-12-2003, 01:49 AM	#6
krue Designated A-hole! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: South Mississippi Posts: 36,450	Valve seals leaking are no real big deal. I know several people who just run 'em. __________________ "If it ain't broke, fix it 'til it is!" Being stupid ain't illegal. We're Still Debt Free Except for the House!!! www.daveramsey.com 70 GMC SWB Stepside project "Green Booger" soon to be 6.0l/4l80e 93 S-10 "Poppaw's Truck"

11-12-2003, 01:49 AM	#7
Longhorn Man its all about the +6 inches Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Hilliard Ohio Posts: 2,693	how long has it taken to get these 20,000 miles on there?

11-12-2003, 01:58 AM	#8
68Custom Hammer On! Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Olathe, KS Posts: 473	Lets see if i can answer everyones question on here.... Longhorn Man: the engine was installed March 2002. Jhow66: yeah i hafta add oil, usually city driving causes this... doesn't seem to need any oil after highway trips. Smoke is a definite blue. Plugs i haven't checked lately as i just put them in on last oil change back in september. The plugs before that looked very clean so i don't know if this has just happened recently or what. Doesn't smoke when i let off at highway speeds that im know of and it does smoke just a bit on a cold start up. Hope this helps you guys out! I appreciate all the replies! Aaron __________________ 1968 C20 Inline 6 250 SM465 4 speed 1968 K10 Inline 6 250 SM465 4 speed

11-12-2003, 02:10 AM	#9
jhow66 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Knoxville Tenn. Posts: 3,058	Did you buy engine new? I have bought and installed quite a few of these 350 crate motors ( 330Hp, ZZ4's and Goodwrench) and have not run across your problem that early.If your plugs are burning clean does not sound like seal problem . Next time you are on the highway get up to a good speed and let off the gas and coast down and then step on the gas again . Watch mirror and see if it puffs smoke when you hit the gas again. If it does it is more then likely a seal problem. Did it ever over heat on you? __________________ 56 Chevy Bel-Air 2dr. HT (purchased new) 71 Chevy Cheyenne SWB PU (502HO) 65 GMC short bed step--work in progress and my gofer

11-12-2003, 02:33 AM	#10
68Custom Hammer On! Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Olathe, KS Posts: 473	Yeah i purchased the engine new from Scoggin Dickey down in Texas.... ill check the plugs tommorow to see what they are looking like. I'm taking the truck out to my uncles in the country so on the highway ill give her try as far as watching for the puff of smoke. BTW mine is the Goodwrench. As far as OVER heating... i don't have a shroud guard on my radiator for good circulation, and i know in the summer time she runs a bit on the warm side when im sitting idle, like at a drive-thru. You know.... im going to be up for awhile anyway, the engine is cool, i think im going to go ahead and check those plugs. I'll keep you posted on my findings. Aaron __________________ 1968 C20 Inline 6 250 SM465 4 speed 1968 K10 Inline 6 250 SM465 4 speed

11-12-2003, 02:53 AM	#11
jorgensensc Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cypress, Tx Posts: 4,005	Hey 68Custom, I am not trying to start anything, but I've heard that the Targetmaster crate engines from GM are actually returned warranty engines. They (GM) fix the problem, then resell them as crate engines. Please don't flame me if anyone knows different. I actually have a crate engine in my truck and it works fine. Just shedding some small pinhole of light. Shawn __________________ 1972 C20 Suburban- Big Blue Betty '56 Chevy Bel Air Sedan- Frame up Restoration -What would you attempt to achieve if you knew you could not fail?- -I Refuse To Tiptoe Through Life, Only To Arrive Safely At Death's Door- R.I.P. EAST SIDE LOW LIFE

11-12-2003, 02:58 AM	#12
redbowtie Account Suspended Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Fort Worth, Texas Posts: 0	This might help pinpoint your problem...Smoke on acceleration is rings and while backing off is valve guides....

11-12-2003, 02:59 AM	#13
68Custom Hammer On! Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Olathe, KS Posts: 473	Shawn, no, you aren't starting anything.... according to the description from Scoggin Dickey this things the real thing... from what ive heard they are mass produced in Mexico and shipped up here by bulk. Anyway, ive check the plugs and things look as good as they should, no oil on them so now im really curious, how about you guys??? Aaron __________________ 1968 C20 Inline 6 250 SM465 4 speed 1968 K10 Inline 6 250 SM465 4 speed

11-12-2003, 05:30 AM	#14
Mudder Registered User Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: East Central, MO Posts: 11,336	OK.........here's what happened to mine this past summer. Drove 400 miles to Lincoln Nebraska back in August. Just out of the blue I was 3 qts low and had a blue film on my back glass. No leaking oil anywhere. Did a compression check....... All good. One plug had some crud built up on it (4).....So..... I pulled the intake. I have vortec heads and intake. The gaskets that Scoggin Dickey had sold me with these heads had come apart and had slid so much it was sucking oil. (Both sides). These gaskets they sent me actually looked like they had glued 2 gaskets together and they just slid apart. New felpros and no more problems.

11-12-2003, 12:01 PM	#15
tom hand CCRider Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Olive Branch,MS,USA Posts: 2,232	Unless your valve guides are completely shot...which they shouldn't be at 20k, valve seals will only cause smoke for a few seconds at start-up. If you are running aftermarket valve covers without baffles the PVC valve can drink a lot of oil. The intake gasket like mudder said, and you might won't to pull the valve covers and make sure the drain back holes in the head are not restricted. __________________ 72 GMC Sierra SWB almost finished---- 84 Softail Olive Branch MS



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11-12-2003, 12:40 PM	#16
tommie 97' Tahoe 2dr/2wd Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Huffman,TX Posts: 1,168	if it just smokes on start up, the 1st thing i would look at would be the valve seals. if you have bad valve seals, the engine will only burn a small amount of oil on start up and will not show any signs on the spark plugs. If you replace the valve seals, use a postive locking type valve seal on all valves, not the "o" ring type that many stores sell you.

11-12-2003, 03:58 PM	#17
Lobo'74 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Charlottesville, VA Posts: 404	Hmmmm. Me too? I have a rebuilt 4 bolt main 350 about a year old installed by PO. I use about a quart of oil a month. Thats about a quart every 4 tanks of gas. In town for virtually all my driving. NO SMOKING. None at all. Aftermarket high performance heads and aftermarket polished aluminum valve covers. Its bored .030 over, the crank is ground .010 under. Is it sucking oil out the PCV valve? Don't know where its going. It did have the small 6 cyl radiator on it when I got it. Ran hot. 190 on the highway, 210 in town, 230 in town at a long idle. It hit 250 or better on me one time when the fan belt broke and I had to pull off on a side road to put the new one on. Was on the road and back to 190 within 10 minutes. I just put a new, big 4 core radiator in it and its 190 or less. Could the previous year that the PO drove it hot have caused a problem that results in higher oil consumption? Following this thread helps. __________________ "Truck" '67 small window '79 350 .030 over, LT1 "clone"

11-12-2003, 09:03 PM	#18
68Custom Hammer On! Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Olathe, KS Posts: 473	The valve seals is a minor thing that is concerning me at this point.... since the spark plugs appear to be just fine, im really wondering if anything has changed as far as compression in the cylinders. Have i worn down the rings? I would like to think not! What else could be causing this problem? Head gaskets? Intake gaskets? Still wondering...... Aaron __________________ 1968 C20 Inline 6 250 SM465 4 speed 1968 K10 Inline 6 250 SM465 4 speed

11-12-2003, 11:25 PM	#19
walker Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: north of Phx AZ about 30 miles Posts: 698	Just to let you know those engines have a gm 3 years 50k warranty. Also, the other oddball problems that can cause smoking are; burning tranny oil from a bad modulator, burning brake fluid because your vac booster is full 'o fluid from a bad master cylinder. Those are the oddballs and I have never experiencede them firsthand, just read them here of all places. Back to engine problems, a vaccum guage can tell you alot about the shape of your guides, valves, rings etc... It is an often overlooked diagnostic tool. More than likley it is the valve stem seals. You can buy a spring puller that works with the heads on, I ahve one from MAC that has come in handy, and replace them yourself in an afternoon. Good luck, Andy __________________ Andy,Phx AZ '67 C-10 (Ahhh, done at last. Well there is that disk front end I want to put in and...) "23 C-Cab-sold '48 Ford 8N tractor(still working) '67 Scout(Now on the road) '70 MG B.-sold

11-12-2003, 11:26 PM	#20
jhow66 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Knoxville Tenn. Posts: 3,058	What kind of intake do you have ? Did it start this all at once? Do valve covers have baffles where the PCV goes? (Getting nosy ain't we). __________________ 56 Chevy Bel-Air 2dr. HT (purchased new) 71 Chevy Cheyenne SWB PU (502HO) 65 GMC short bed step--work in progress and my gofer

11-13-2003, 03:06 PM	#21
68Custom Hammer On! Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Olathe, KS Posts: 473	Yeah, good thing mine is still under warrenty! Although im not sure how to go about this warrenty thing should it boil down to that. The intake i have on the engine now came off a SBC 400. My uncle had it in his 56 F*rd and decided to go with a 3 duece setup instead. So i purchased the 4 barrel Rochester and intake off him for 75 dollars. The intake before that was a 2 barrell which was junk and it wasn't doing this that far back anyway.... somewhere within the past 4 months i would say this has started in. The valve covers do have baffles on them. Don't mind the nosy part, just so long as we narrow down the burning issue. Aaron __________________ 1968 C20 Inline 6 250 SM465 4 speed 1968 K10 Inline 6 250 SM465 4 speed

11-13-2003, 03:29 PM	#22
biglou55 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Greenfield Mass. Posts: 551	I rebuilt the 350 in my 86 put on edlebrock performer intake it started smoking on left bank after only 5k then the right bank shortly there after. the problem was alum intake lossened up and warped . you might want to check it.out it was sprayingl from the galley into the heads. my 02. __________________ Certifiably crazy person

11-13-2003, 03:33 PM	#23
Mudder Registered User Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: East Central, MO Posts: 11,336	What kind of intake gaskets did ya use? I'd do a compression test then if that don't tell ya anything, I would pull the intake off. Make sure your pvc hasnt been sucking oil. Take a qtip and see if there is any oil in the hose.

11-13-2003, 03:34 PM	#24
jhow66 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Knoxville Tenn. Posts: 3,058	Did you use any RVT on intake gasket other then water ports? If you used it around the intake ports this is probley where it is sucking oil in from valley. Gas and RVT don't mix. __________________ 56 Chevy Bel-Air 2dr. HT (purchased new) 71 Chevy Cheyenne SWB PU (502HO) 65 GMC short bed step--work in progress and my gofer

11-14-2003, 02:45 PM	#25
68Custom Hammer On! Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Olathe, KS Posts: 473	well, i shall check the pcv hose today when i get back from school but im thinkin i won't find anything there. as far as the intake, my dad and i installed it using fel-pro gaskets. We DID use RTV sealant on it. I'm making a journey up to Lincoln Nebraska late in the afternoon today so i guess i can see how much its using oil on the highway too. Won't be able to mess with intake for awhile. Seriously going to get this wood bed project finished FIRST! More later on! And GO HUSKERS!!!! Aaron __________________ 1968 C20 Inline 6 250 SM465 4 speed 1968 K10 Inline 6 250 SM465 4 speed

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