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#1 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Palm Coast Florida
Posts: 1
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Alright guys I have a 1970 gmc with a 454 and a TH400. which is better changing out the transmission to a 700r4 or just adding a gear vender gear splitter to the existing transmission to add the extra gears. the goal is to get better gas milage and be able to run it at higher speeds with lower rpms. what do you all think?
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#2 |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: .
Posts: 2,185
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Re: 700r4 or TH400 with gear splitter?
You may be able to cruise better at highway speeds.
But forget about mileage. The best you will get is 8-9. I get 9-10 with 3.73, overdrive, and modern fuel injection. Another option would be a different ratio in your rear diff. I assume you have 4.10 or 4.56 back there. If you do decide on the 700R4, it would need built to last behind a big block. You could also do a 4L80E with a stand alone controller. |
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#3 |
Account Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: GBR !!
Posts: 144
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Re: 700r4 or TH400 with gear splitter?
Have you considered how long it would take to get your return on investing 3K on a gear vendor piece. I installed a 700r4 in my 1972 c10 with 3.42 gears well under the price of the piece you are looking at spending 3K. If money is no issue, bombs away on the credit card.
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#4 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Spring, Texas
Posts: 167
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Re: 700r4 or TH400 with gear splitter?
The GV will lower your rpms, but not your mileage.
Cheapest solution is new gears. If yours is like mine it probably has 4:10s in it. I would do a 4l80 instead of the 700 if you just want to change something. Still less than the GV.
__________________
'72 3/4 Cheyenne Super 402/TH400 Gear Vendors '72 3/4 Cheyenne Super 350/200R4 '50 1/2 Chevy 3 Window |
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#5 |
Registered User
![]() Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 574
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Re: 700r4 or TH400 with gear splitter?
If those were the only 2 choices, I'd go for the 700R4 for the advantage of having a lockup converter. A 700R4 built will every available upgrade will be less than a GV.
GV does give you the very cool option of splitting gears though. As others have suggested, a 4L80E is really the way to go.
__________________
87 R30 CC Dually, TBI 454, NV4500, zero rust barn find 87 Jeep Grand Wagoneer, 6.5 turbodiesel, 700R4 |
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#6 |
driving is in my blood
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Mesa AZ
Posts: 5,723
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Re: 700r4 or TH400 with gear splitter?
lol. Yes lowering your cruise rpm will gain mileage. If it didn't the oem's wouldn't have done it seeing as no truck accelerates with a load in overdrive meaning they added no usable gears with overdrive except at cruise.
700R4 with a 454 is a joke. Not an option IMO.
__________________
-78 c10 short/step: 388cid, M20, 5/5 drop, lots more. Playtoy and first vehicle. -98 c1500 x-cab: 5.7L, 17" rims, 5/6 drop, flowmaster, helper bags,NBS rear disk brakes. -02 Suburban 4x4: leveled front -CBR600F4i, CBR600RR, CBR1000RR, and standup skis DISCLAIMER: I cant spell for the life of me. |
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#7 |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Yuma Arizona
Posts: 1,526
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Re: 700r4 or TH400 with gear splitter?
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#8 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: .
Posts: 2,185
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Re: 700r4 or TH400 with gear splitter?
Quote:
I get 9-10 all the time. It doesn't matter if I am driving empty, towing 8,000 pounds in third gear. The same is true with my rollback. It gets 9-10 when empty(9,000 pounds) and gets the same when fully loaded(15,000 pounds) and in fourth gear. That has 4.88 rear axle and an NV4500. You can look on this site and many others and see what kind of mileage big blocks are getting. You don't buy a truck with a big block for mileage. You buy it to haul/tow. |
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#9 |
Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Colfax-California
Posts: 8,526
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Re: 700r4 or TH400 with gear splitter?
In my opinion, 700s should NEVER be considered in a truck for any type of work. It is a passenger car transmission. The very last thing I would do is put one behind a big block. I've had enough trouble with them behind small blocks, special drums, vette servos, shift kits heavy duty this and that...they just don't last long term when asked to anything heavy duty, such as towing. Go with a Gear Vendor or a 4L80e. I am converting my Suburban from a 700 to a 4L80 and I have a gear vendor in my 69 flat bed. Flat bed has a built big block and the suburban is a stock 350 tbi soon to be a 400 next year if money allows
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#10 |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2012
Location: horseheads,ny rust belt
Posts: 2,794
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Re: 700r4 or TH400 with gear splitter?
as said big block engines are for WORK not mileage .
and a good cheep way to optimize fuel mileage is a simple gauge like this . you will be amazed how much you can gain by watching this little guy . not saying you will get a ton but it will improve .
__________________
77-k30lb BIG truck build . 87-k30lb budget beater build . 85-k30lb the plow machine build . 85-c10sb summer fun toy . ----------------------------- HOLLEY SNIPER efi = worst case of p.i.t.a i ever had . EDELBROCK pro flo 4 = best deal going so far . love my setup works great. |
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#11 | |
driving is in my blood
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Mesa AZ
Posts: 5,723
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Re: 700r4 or TH400 with gear splitter?
Quote:
That's a terrible statement. Just because you buy something to work doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't maximize its efficiancy where possible. And I know this may sound crazy, but some people buy big blocks for fun, not work. Not too many 48yr old trucks being put to real world, daily business type work these days.
__________________
-78 c10 short/step: 388cid, M20, 5/5 drop, lots more. Playtoy and first vehicle. -98 c1500 x-cab: 5.7L, 17" rims, 5/6 drop, flowmaster, helper bags,NBS rear disk brakes. -02 Suburban 4x4: leveled front -CBR600F4i, CBR600RR, CBR1000RR, and standup skis DISCLAIMER: I cant spell for the life of me. |
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#12 |
Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Colfax-California
Posts: 8,526
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Re: 700r4 or TH400 with gear splitter?
Whatever they're still junk in my book. I've wasted a quite a few grand on 3-4 700s, only to have them either break, slip, not shift correctly etc. All built by professional "700 experts"
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#13 |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Post Falls, ID
Posts: 889
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Re: 700r4 or TH400 with gear splitter?
What mileage are you averaging right now?
What would you consider an acceptable increase in MPG? How much are you willing to spend, to achieve this increase? What speed are you trying to run, and what RPM are you running at that speed? What gears do you have? How tall are your tires? Is this a 1/2 ton, 3/4, 1 ton? 2wd, I assume? What Carburetor or FI system are you running? Points or HEI Is this thing properly tuned? Are you sure you need OD? Would taller gears and/or some tuning get you close enough? A properly tuned 454 will twist some pretty tall gears. Keep your expectations low. It ain't EVER gonna get great mileage. Last edited by Greasey Harley; 10-14-2018 at 04:07 AM. |
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#14 |
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Montoursville, PA
Posts: 45
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Re: 700r4 or TH400 with gear splitter?
If the engine makes any power, a 700R4 won't live. The GV unit will.
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#15 |
Account Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: GBR !!
Posts: 144
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Re: 700r4 or TH400 with gear splitter?
I run a 700R4 behind a big block in my 72 Blazer and my 72 swb 383 c10, never had a issue with my 700R4 transmissions.
But I do not abuse my equipment nor do I expect things to last for ever. Not sure why so much hating on the 700R4's but I will take all of the ones everyone dont want. Thanks. As far as gas mileage, big block and gas mileage should not be used in the same sentence. If its your daily driver than I would look to buy another vehicle with better mileage. Should this be more of a debate on a 700 vs 400 with GV ? 70 LWB truck with a 3000 dollar GV, I dont think I would spend the cash on a GV....Ask yourself what the truck is worth, its a LWB truck right ? the GV is worth half as much as the truck. I already know what I would do but again these forums are so much fun to hear other opinions. |
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#16 | |
driving is in my blood
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Mesa AZ
Posts: 5,723
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Re: 700r4 or TH400 with gear splitter?
History. Yours are living. Most don't.
Quote:
__________________
-78 c10 short/step: 388cid, M20, 5/5 drop, lots more. Playtoy and first vehicle. -98 c1500 x-cab: 5.7L, 17" rims, 5/6 drop, flowmaster, helper bags,NBS rear disk brakes. -02 Suburban 4x4: leveled front -CBR600F4i, CBR600RR, CBR1000RR, and standup skis DISCLAIMER: I cant spell for the life of me. |
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#17 |
Account Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: GBR !!
Posts: 144
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Re: 700r4 or TH400 with gear splitter?
Like I said in my previous post, its fun to hear other opinions.
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#18 |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Yuma Arizona
Posts: 1,526
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Re: 700r4 or TH400 with gear splitter?
Nv4500
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#19 |
Registered User
![]() Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 574
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Re: 700r4 or TH400 with gear splitter?
I think we scared the OP away.
NV4500 is a good choice if you like rowing through gears (actually have one sitting on the garage floor to replace the TH400 behind the 454 in my R30). If I ever get around to the diesel swap in it, I'll ad a GV behind the NV4500. Honestly though, if the OP wants an automatic he should be looking at a 4L80E. Not only is there way more strength than a 700R4 (not knocking the 700...I have one living behind a diesel that is making 500+ ft/lbs of torque and it is fine), but the ability to tune lockup and shift points with the controller can really make for a nice driving experience.
__________________
87 R30 CC Dually, TBI 454, NV4500, zero rust barn find 87 Jeep Grand Wagoneer, 6.5 turbodiesel, 700R4 |
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#20 |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Yuma Arizona
Posts: 1,526
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Re: 700r4 or TH400 with gear splitter?
Agree on the 4l80. Now...if I could just win the current lottery.
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#21 |
F’B’D guy
![]() Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Texas/Maine
Posts: 2,220
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Re: 700r4 or TH400 with gear splitter?
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#22 |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: thomastown mississippi
Posts: 1,261
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Re: 700r4 or TH400 with gear splitter?
A question to ask when considering a GV is "Can the gears be split PROGRESSIVLY"?
I've asked this question lots & GV dances around the answer. Yes it will "Split" the gears, but if it won't split them "PROGRESSIVLY" then all you're adding is an OD box that will go from direct to OD & back again. Also remember that the GV box is very small & uses it's own lube reservoir, not the trans lube & there's no way to cool it. Not bashing GV units but it's a lot of $$$ to spend & not know the answers. |
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#23 | |
Registered User
![]() Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 574
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Re: 700r4 or TH400 with gear splitter?
Quote:
1st 1st OD 2nd 2nd OD 3rd 3rd OD It won't do that in automatic mode, but it is fully capable of doing that with manual control. If that isn't what you mean, then please explain "progressively".
__________________
87 R30 CC Dually, TBI 454, NV4500, zero rust barn find 87 Jeep Grand Wagoneer, 6.5 turbodiesel, 700R4 |
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#24 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: thomastown mississippi
Posts: 1,261
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Re: 700r4 or TH400 with gear splitter?
Quote:
Have you owned / driven a GV w/ a std trans & shifted it progressively? Sure be interested to know how they perform! |
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#25 | |
Registered User
![]() Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 574
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Re: 700r4 or TH400 with gear splitter?
Quote:
If you are concerned about the split ratios, it is easy enough to figure out what the splits would be if you know the ratios in your transmission.
__________________
87 R30 CC Dually, TBI 454, NV4500, zero rust barn find 87 Jeep Grand Wagoneer, 6.5 turbodiesel, 700R4 |
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Tags |
700r4, gear vender, th400, transmission |
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