New doors

[yoshi]

Has anyone fitted new doors? Just wondering how good a fit they are. Any problems with em? Thanks

[yoshi]

What's the best way to hang them? Fit hinge to frame 1st or to door 1st? Thanks

[mr48chev]

I usually bolt the hinges to the cab and slide the doors on the hinges. Having a good helper is a big plus when doing it though.

Getting the gaps right can be a slow process filled with frustration and there is no embarrassment involved if you walk away for a few hours when it isn't going right.

[yoshi]

Ok thanks, I was recently told by the painter that these doors haven't been trial fitted!

[OrrieG]

This makes it a LOT easier... and here is some info on adjusting. Note that when you loosen and move one jamb OR door hinge and move it you are rotating the door. For example, moving the bottom towards the rear will also raise the top at the back and move the top away from the rear. 4 points of movement in two planes makes it interesting. Also a little bit moves the door a a lot. You may (probably) will find you need to elongate some of the holes to get the movement you want. Sometimes you get to bend the hinge arm too. Use the box above, click 67... and google AD door alignment to find lots of detail.
http://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/doors/alignment.htm

[MARTINSR]

Let me get this straight, you have reproduction doors ("New") that have been painted but not trail fit?

If this is the case, you WILL be repainted them, that is if you want any kind of fit at all.

This would be the biggest misake you could make I believe, you will only do this once that's for sure.

Brian

"Basics of Basics" Trial fitting parts
By Brian Martin

There are few procedures that give you more ‘Bang for your buck” than trial fitting parts. Sounds simple, just common sense. However, it is something that comes with very hard learned lessons. Even after doing this work for over twenty five years, I still forget once and a while. When I do, there is a good chance I will pay for it dearly.

Like the fabricators motto “If you don’t have a pile of rejects in the trash, you aren’t doing good work”, the time spent on trial fitting is VERY good time spent.

This trial fitting should include nearly every single part of the car.

When installing a weld on part such as a quarter, trial fitting ALL the adjacent panels is not just something you “should” do, you MUST do it. The decklid, door, rear bumper, window mouldings, etc, should ALL installed and fit well BEFORE your welding is done. At this time a little minor tuning can turn an “OK” job into an outstanding one. You may even find the need to serious adjustment.

Trial fitting is not holding the part up and saying “yep it fits”. We are talking FULLY bolting the part on. If this is a moving part such as a door or deck lid, the latch should be installed, hinges FULLY bolted on and adjusted. The rubber seals and bumpers should be installed as well. On an older car this is not so easy because many are glued in, but SOMETHING has to be done to insure the part will fit properly when the rubber is installed later.

If you can’t install the rubber at that time at least spend some time looking at where the rubber fits to for a proper gap. For instance, while fitting a decklid to your new quarter (or the other way around, it makes no difference) get in the trunk and close the lid. Inspect around the channel where the rubber fits. Be sure it is a uniform distance ALL the way around. You can usually find the correct distance right where the hinges are. If the panel fits correctly on the outside then that gap for the rubber is usually going to be correct. If you feel for some reason that there is damage to that area, you need to spend some time there. If you feel the car has been hit on the side piller post (if you were fitting the door) you really need insure that the door fits properly and that you KNOW what that rubber gap should be. This gap is usually a uniform distance all the way around, be sure of it. When you are doing a door, you always have the other side to check to guidance remember. When installing a quarter, rear panel, upper panel, this is very critical. You don’t want to find out later that your gap is too small, the lid won’t close properly or sticks up. You don’t want to find out the gap is too large, the rubber may not seal and the trunk leaks water. A little minor shifting of parts prior to welding could take care of it.
You want ALL gaps perfect PRIOR to welding (a little tack here or there may be needed for fitting the parts) there is NOTHING that will tell you this other than FULLY mounting the adjacent parts.

Mouldings:
When doing any plastic filler work (“bondo”) or straightening metal you need to trail fit the mouldings, trim and adjacent parts as well. This is VERY important with parts like fender extensions. I don’t care if they are new/used or the even the same ones you took off the car, AWAYS trial fit them. Don’t leave you new repro parts in the package to install them after paint, you WILL be sorry.

Prior to paint or even primer you can “tweek” these mouldings against the body. After paint, it is much harder because you can scratch it. If there is plastic filler work or metal being straightened this is VERY important. After you have drilled holes for mouldings (Basics of Basics-Templates) bolt the mouldings on for fit.

The cars weight should be on the “wheels” when making these panel adjustments. NEVER fit panels while the car is on jack stands on the frame or on a rotisserie for something like that. You can have the car on jack stands but be sure they are under the rear axle and front control arms to “replicate” the forces of the car on it’s wheels. I don’t even like the under the control arms at all, I put the car on it’s front wheels. The weight transfer is not the same in the middle of the control arms as it is at the point where the tire hits the ground.

I can not stress this enough, trial fitting parts is not because you are a newbe or something. Every experienced body man does it everyday to some degree. Trial fitting is done throughout the entire repair of the car. Nothing could be worse than getting your car back from the painter only to find parts don’t fit!
Just yesterday I was working on 2002 Honda CR-V with a little dent on the quarter right at the edge by the rear gate. I had finished the plastic filler work and was ready to send it to the paint department. I went ahead and installed the new decklid just to be sure it was right, even though this was a very minor repair that should easily be fine. I found out I was a little on the filler work. Now, it wasn’t the end of the world and could have even stayed that way. But with literally only a few minutes, it was perfect. On a very large job lately I found the need to pull the car back up on the frame rack for a little minor repair to where the rubber fits or the door would have been MUCH too tight. Just this little fine tuning made a world of difference to how the door fit.

The moral of the story is don’t ever “assume” your parts are going to fit. I don’t give a darn if they are new, repro, NOS, original, it really doesn’t matter, they MUST be trial fit.

The final assembly of your car should be fun, and relaxing. It is the best part of the whole project. Don’t make it a nightmare, don’t let someone rush you during the earlier phases of the project. Right from the very beginning you are laying the foundation for the finished project. Take the time to do it right.
If you trial fit the parts properly you will never know the pain you saved yourself, but believe me, it was time very well spent.
__________________

[yoshi]

Yes Brian I was shocked when the painter told me. Had a look at the doors today & fitted the hinges to the frame. Are there any gaskets fitted anywhere?

[OrrieG]

page 14, google is your friend...

http://media.lmctruck.com/pdf/CA/caComplete.pdf

[MARTINSR]

Originally Posted by yoshi

Yes Brian I was shocked when the painter told me. Had a look at the doors today & fitted the hinges to the frame. Are there any gaskets fitted anywhere?

I have to tell you, I hate to tell you this but you need to be ready, expect the WORSE you could ever imagine like the doors won't even bolt on, expect them to fit like you are trying to fit 1970 Nova doors on your truck.
They MAY not fit that bad but when they are a little better than that you will be thrilled and it won't kick you in your butt so hard.

I am not kidding, that was about the worse mistake you could make. Getting doors from another truck to fit would be bad enough, but reproduction doors......

LIke I said, I hate like hell to tell you that but that is reality.

There are no gaskets on the hinges if that is what you mean. The only "gasket" is usually called a gasket but there is a weatherstrip that goes around the door. There is also one at the bottom that goes across the threshold from front to back of the door opening.

But honestly, I am not kidding, FORGET about that rubber right now. That is the least of your worries like the killer frogs that are covering the floor of the basement you are hiding in, the hundred zombies knocking down the door should be your biggest concerns.

See if those doors fit first.

Brian

[yoshi]

Brian that's how the truck came to me, don't keep saying it's the biggest mistake I'VE made.

[MARTINSR]

Sorry, yeah, the biggest mistake someone could do.

Brian

[yoshi]

So now all I've gotta do is sort it out!

[yoshi]

I managed to hang the passenger door, I've got about a 1" gap all the way along the front edge. It's as though I've got the hinges the wrong way round but that's not possible due to shape & hole placing.

[MARTINSR]

Believe it or not it looks like you need to "Spring" the door. If you open it all the way, then force it open further bending the area where the hinges mount it will bring in that front. Another thing you can do is look to the back of the hinge with the door open. Look INTO the hinge, way at the back is a hole. You can put a bolt back there. If you loosen up the hinge bolts and then pry that back of the hinge IN towards the center of the cab you can put a bolt to hold it. This will move the door in too. But I am thinking it will need both, some bending and then some fine tuning with that bolt.

Tell me, does it fit much better than a 1970 Nova door would?

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Brian

[yoshi]

Looking on YouTube I've fitted the hinge to door in the wrong place. I've bolted through the hinge to the door instead of putting the hinge inside the door. That's what I asked about a gasket, that's where I thought it fixed to the door!

[MARTINSR]

Wait a second, so there this door is fitting in the photo you have the hinges on the outside of the door?

Brian

[oldman3]

yoshi, not sure this pic will help, but I don't have anything that shows it better. The hinge slides to the inside of panel and three bolts go thru panel, into the hinge. For the lower hinge you will have to remove the removable panel to get to the hinge. Hope this helps...Jim

[OrrieG]

I would suggest you buy a factory assembly manual, best $25 you will spend. Shows how and sequence they were built. Also shows all the small pieces that I did not even know were missing.

[MARTINSR]

Originally Posted by yoshi

Looking on YouTube I've fitted the hinge to door in the wrong place. I've bolted through the hinge to the door instead of putting the hinge inside the door. That's what I asked about a gasket, that's where I thought it fixed to the door!

It's a damn good thing you figured this out before you started bending the door like I suggested!

Brian

[yoshi]

Today I took the door back off & fitted it the correct way with the hinge inside the door. Either I'm bloody lucky or someone has tried the doors because they fit up pretty well. I need the door latch in place really but I'm still waiting for that. I've just recieved the felt kit. Am I right in saying that the glass fits in the frame that's attached to the window regulator. Which then fits into the glass run channel. What hold that channel in place? There's an inner door window trim, is there an exterior one? The striker plates I have look like 52-55 ones has anyone got any pictures of 47-51 striker plates? Many thanks

[oldman3]

Yoshi, here are four sheets showing window stuff from the assy. manual, hope you can read them...Jim

[oldman3]

Yoshi, as mentioned earlier you really need to buy the assembly manual here is a link to the company I use most of the time http://www.classicparts.com/searchprods.asp hope this helps...Jim

Well, it didn't show the manual but it is #04-611 for $24.95

[MARTINSR]

I highly recommend the manual as well. I have been in this industry for 35 years and once thought those manuals were for people who didn't know better. I had my truck when I was 15, I didn't need anyone to tell me how to work on an old car. Boy was I WRONG. I found myself getting one for a car I knew nothing about and it helped me so much I got another out of a dusty place for another car I THOUGHT I knew and it really helped me out.

Get one, it's the best $25 you can spend on that truck.

Brian

[yoshi]

Thanks jim. It's just my luck that the rear lower window runners are no longer available. Anyone know if a 51-55 could be modified to fit or have any measurements of the 49's so that I can make some? Thanks

[yoshi]

No one got a 47-51 with doors?